A View to A Kill - Underrated?

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  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Tracy wrote: »
    Dont blame Halle , blame the script first and foremost.....I'm sure her role couldve been good with better script.

    it can be a mixture of a bunch of different factors - least of which is the script.. it could boil down to how Berry interprets what is written, or even what the director wants out of the performance as well.... but people are quick to pass the buck on the script - when it's up to the actor to bring that character to life off the page...

    in the case of DAD, her acting was extremely hammy - so no matter what was written, her performance of said material probably would've sucked either way..... a great actor can elevate any mediocre script.. but a terrible actor can destroy something oscar worthy (if you've seen Hot Fuzz, look at how bad acting can ruin Shakespeare lol).. now i'm not saying the script to DAD was anything close to oscar worthy - but what was written, and what we got from Berry's performance might be two totally different things..
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I would have liked to have seen her go for sultry rather than sassy.
  • Posts: 7,430
    talos7 wrote: »
    I would have liked to have seen her go for sultry rather than sassy.

    Jinx first appearance scene with Bond is one of the most cringeworthy in the series, and it doesn't get any better!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Tracy wrote: »
    Dont blame Halle , blame the script first and foremost.....I'm sure her role couldve been good with better script.

    IMO AVTAK is better than :

    DAF
    TMWTGG
    MR
    TND
    TWINE
    DAD
    QoS

    Halle Berry is the worst Bond girl of all time. She has no chemistry with Pierce Brosnan. She delivers her lines as though English is her second language.

    Berry is a great actress and has proven her acting skills on countless times, but at the same time she has had her fair few flops of portrayals and this for me goes hand in hand with her dreadful ‘Catwoman’ performance. Part of me blames Berry for her over-acting and corny-ness but the other part of the blame goes to the writers: I think they wrote the part especially for Berry and wrote the part as a stereotyped ‘Halle Berry’ Bond Girl. What they should have done was create a unique and interesting Bond Girl and then challenged Berry to see if she was up to it...... Berry was out-shined in ‘Die Another Day’ by newcomer Rosamund Pike and in the ‘bikini-coming-out-of the-water’ moment to the iconic Andress.
  • Posts: 377
    Die Another Day is worse than AVTAK, because the geniuses in charge thought it would be a wonderful idea to have Bond surf a CGI tsunami. Poor Pierce Brosnan has been ridiculed ever since.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    Die Another Day is worse than AVTAK, because the geniuses in charge thought it would be a wonderful idea to have Bond surf a CGI tsunami. Poor Pierce Brosnan has been ridiculed ever since.

    Agreed.
    There is just no way to avoid how bad that scene actually is.
    You cant justify it in any way,shape or form against any scenes in AVTAK.
  • Posts: 7,430
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    Die Another Day is worse than AVTAK, because the geniuses in charge thought it would be a wonderful idea to have Bond surf a CGI tsunami. Poor Pierce Brosnan has been ridiculed ever since.

    Agreed.
    There is just no way to avoid how bad that scene actually is.
    You cant justify it in any way,shape or form against any scenes in AVTAK.

    +1
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Has anyone read James Bond in Our Sights: A Close Look at 'a View to a Kill' by Andrew McNess? I'd be curious to hear what you all think of it, as I plan to read it and watch AVTAK to compare his thoughts, in the next week.

    I finished the book, I greatly enjoyed it! I liked his viewpoint that the best moments in the film are the more subtle ones. A must read if you're a 007 fan!
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Speaking of a View to a Kill. Look at the new Bond the USA tshirts in the USA version of the 007 Store. It says A View To A Kill 1983 instead of 1985 on the back. I sent them an email to look into it. https://usa.007store.com/products/bond-in-the-usa-t-shirt-royal-blue
    https://usa.007store.com/products/bond-in-the-usa-t-shirt-white
    https://usa.007store.com/products/bond-in-the-usa-t-shirt-red
  • Posts: 17,756
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Speaking of a View to a Kill. Look at the new Bond the USA tshirts in the USA version of the 007 Store. It says A View To A Kill 1983 instead of 1985 on the back. I sent them an email to look into it. https://usa.007store.com/products/bond-in-the-usa-t-shirt-royal-blue
    https://usa.007store.com/products/bond-in-the-usa-t-shirt-white
    https://usa.007store.com/products/bond-in-the-usa-t-shirt-red

    That's strange!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    Die Another Day is worse than AVTAK, because the geniuses in charge thought it would be a wonderful idea to have Bond surf a CGI tsunami. Poor Pierce Brosnan has been ridiculed ever since.

    Agreed.
    There is just no way to avoid how bad that scene actually is.
    You cant justify it in any way,shape or form against any scenes in AVTAK.

    Agreed.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    AVTAK underrated?

    That's a big YES.

    I rank it #3 among Roger entries. Slightly better than OP for me, mainly because I love Zorin-Mayday and I quite like some moments of crazy violence.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.

    I am not sure who I should give credit to, but the theory of Bond being old and a step behind the younger Zorin gives me a new fresh perspective on this film. I would love to see this theme really fleshed out in a future film.

  • edited September 2019 Posts: 17,756
    thedove wrote: »
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.

    I am not sure who I should give credit to, but the theory of Bond being old and a step behind the younger Zorin gives me a new fresh perspective on this film. I would love to see this theme really fleshed out in a future film.

    Maybe that will happen in NTTD? Malek is younger than Craig, and AVTAK was Fukunaga's first Bond film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    thedove wrote: »
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.


    Yes, but Achille Aubergine? Ma car! Ma car!? Deleted scene with police chief checking Bond s gadgets? Warehouse "fight"? Fire truck chase? Tibbett getting a hard time? It just reminds me very much of Pink Panther, all of that.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    thedove wrote: »
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.


    Yes, but Achille Aubergine? Ma car! Ma car!? Deleted scene with police chief checking Bond s gadgets? Warehouse "fight"? Fire truck chase? Tibbett getting a hard time? It just reminds me very much of Pink Panther, all of that.

    I could agree with this, honestly never thought of how reminiscent it is of Pink Panther. Damn, do I still love this film, though. It's objectively flawed in several areas and Moore's just a bit too old in the role but I've always had a great affinity and affection for it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.


    Yes, but Achille Aubergine? Ma car! Ma car!? Deleted scene with police chief checking Bond s gadgets? Warehouse "fight"? Fire truck chase? Tibbett getting a hard time? It just reminds me very much of Pink Panther, all of that.

    I could agree with this, honestly never thought of how reminiscent it is of Pink Panther. Damn, do I still love this film, though. It's objectively flawed in several areas and Moore's just a bit too old in the role but I've always had a great affinity and affection for it.

    I can also just hear Clouseau exclaiming "That is not the soap!"
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I'm sorry. It just happened.

  • I heard it said the other day:

    VTAK passes the 'Ebert Test' of having a great villain, so why is it so rubbishy?
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Funnily enough I just tried watching this with my daughter - and it was a chore. It was either so boring I was playing with my phone or so unpleasant I was wincing. The only thing in here to recommend is John Barry's score but otherwise... ugh.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    The utter jarring nature of how poorly stunt doubles/stand ins are disguised never sits right with me.
    The Bond films of yesteryear always had A, great stunts and B, said stunts filmed and edited to great effect. In AVTAK they are, at times, awful. I offer up the Paris car chase, fire truck chase and Gogol meeting Pola as evidence.
  • Posts: 1,917
    cwl007 wrote: »
    The utter jarring nature of how poorly stunt doubles/stand ins are disguised never sits right with me.
    The Bond films of yesteryear always had A, great stunts and B, said stunts filmed and edited to great effect. In AVTAK they are, at times, awful. I offer up the Paris car chase, fire truck chase and Gogol meeting Pola as evidence.

    Agreed, it was at an all-time low here. I recall a friend of mine who wasn't a Bond fan jeering during the pre-credits when Bond is snowboarding that the stunt double looked like an Eskimo and that comment always sticks with me whenever I watch that scene.

    The film also seems to have a very high percentage of rear and front projection on several scenes as well. And this isn't just in the era of high-definition equipment; I notice these back in the day AVTAK was new.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    In some ways, it certainly is underrated. There is a hell of a lot to love about it.
    The score is excellent, as expected from John Barry. The opening scene(apart from the Beach Boys nonsense) is good. The final fight atop the Golden Gate Bridge with Zorin is one of the most memorable endings.

    While on the subject of Zorin, thanks to the mercurial Christopher Walken, he is my all time favourite Bond villain. And he brings out some real intensity in the second half of the film from Moore. Bond genuinely seems to despise Zorin, and doesn't hide his contempt with witty banter, as we are accustomed to in a lot of the series. Good stuff. Almost good enough to make me forget about the quiche!
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    It's also an interesting reversal, in that generally a lot of the weaker Bond films are considered to start well and tail off. This is the one that is the opposite, in my view. Even though Sir Rog and Patrick Macnee have great chemistry, watching them mooch around Zorins chateau, it's easy to understand the criticism the film gets.

    Once we get past the quiche scene, the film ups it's game a notch, for sure.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Roadphill wrote: »
    It's also an interesting reversal, in that generally a lot of the weaker Bond films are considered to start well and tail off. This is the one that is the opposite, in my view. Even though Sir Rog and Patrick Macnee have great chemistry, watching them mooch around Zorins chateau, it's easy to understand the criticism the film gets.

    Once we get past the quiche scene, the film ups it's game a notch, for sure.

    The first half feels more Bondian. The films set primarily in the U.S. often get criticized for being less interesting than those set in other worldwide locales and AVTAK is a prime example of why. I still feel when Bond arrives in San Francisco it's one of the most boring stretches in any Bond film. We trade in Macnee for Chuck Lee, the most colorless sidekick in the series. Add in the screaming Stacey Sutton, the cheap comedy and a tone that's all over the place it just drags it down that much farther.

    Walken is the film's only saving grace for me. AVTAK made me a Walken fan. Whenever he's not on screen the film plods along. It's one of the few times I rooted for the villain to win in a Bond film and that's due to Walken's Zorin, who's fascinating to watch.


  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    I always liked the car under water scene where Bond gets air from the tire. Brilliant move.

    The Eiffel Tower sequence is pretty good.


    About all the nice things can say.
  • Posts: 7,430
    I think if the other people considered for Zorin, had got the part (Bowie, Sting) there would be little to recommend.
    Walken really is excellent, I love all his little tics and mannerisms when he speaks, and to be fair to Roger, he really is great in his scenes with him.
    The pts is great fun, if only they used the Bond theme with the snowboarding sequence, and the climax on the Golden Gate bridge with the Skyship is terrific.
    Must say I really like the steeplechase set piece as Bond really gets bashed about a bit more than usual.
    Unlike most of the Bond movies though, I really have to be in the right mood to watch this one!
  • Posts: 19,339
    thedove wrote: »
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.

    I am not sure who I should give credit to, but the theory of Bond being old and a step behind the younger Zorin gives me a new fresh perspective on this film. I would love to see this theme really fleshed out in a future film.

    ME !!!
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    barryt007 wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    AVTAK may be the most Pink Pantheresque Bond film.

    I'd place that honour to MR to be honest. At least in AVTAK we have Zorin mowing down all his men and leaving the rest to drown. We wouldn't see that in any of the Pink Panther movies. We have some silliness going on with the "California Girls" sequence in the PTS. But overall the laughs aren't as silly as previous efforts.

    I am not sure who I should give credit to, but the theory of Bond being old and a step behind the younger Zorin gives me a new fresh perspective on this film. I would love to see this theme really fleshed out in a future film.

    ME !!!

    Didn't they go down this route somewhat with Skyfall?
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