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Through conversations in this site I've come to the conclusion that the plot works well and makes sense, and most of the things that appear to be problematic are motivated by character reasons, or are a result of streamlining the events in the film to keep things simple and the momentum going. I can see the logic behind that so there's no problem for me there. I wouldn't change that.
So the most significant thing I would actually change without altering the whole film would be to make its tone more playful. I think Bond films have always been "audience" pictures. By that I mean there is an implicit acknowledgment by the filmmakers that we are witnessing an spectacle, a piece of entertainment. Something to be taken seriously but not that seriously. So there is always a sly wink, usually delivered through the actor playing Bond (Connery, Moore and Brosnan were terrific at this). I love that. I find if properly handled, with smooth transitions from the more serious to the lighter moments, it can work wonderfully well. For all its well-noted shortcomings, Spectre does that particular thing splendidly, providing a terrific and sound combination of playful Bond humor and spectacle, with the psychological exploration of 007 that has characterized the Craig era. But Skyfall is just way too serious.
Sure, there is humor sprinkled throughout the film, but while the characters can be ironic and playful at times, the film itself barely is. In Thunderball, when Bond says "you can't win them all," it's not just Bond that is amusing himself with the comment. The film is trying to amuse us. In Skyfall, when Bond says "nothing major" was hit by Moneypenny's rifle, it feels like I'm watching a very serious-minded film in which even Bond's sense of humor is filtered through this serious tone, so I'm not enjoying it nearly as much. It's a strong change from the usual Bond film style. Films like Quantum of Solace and Licence to Kill, for all their intensity, drama and generally serious tone, do have a feel of entertainment to them. I feel Skyfall doesn't.
The only moment that aims for that playfulness unashamedly is when Bond jumps onto the subway train. And Craig fails to play the humor well. His delivery of the line "open the door" is too intense, but at the same time too relaxed. It falls between too stools. It's not serious and it's not lighthearted. It's just awkward. As I said before, other Bond actors were very good at winking at the audience. Craig never does. Yes, he plays the humor well from within the character, but what he had to do was to blur the line between the film and the audience while not outright destroying it. To make the humor work for himself as Bond and for the audience. It's a very delicate and precise thing to do. It doesn't lend itself to every film, but it's been a tradition in the Bond films. It must be said, however, it's not just his fault; the script and direction are as at fault as him, if not more. But anyway, that's why I was especially delighted to see him up his game in Spectre, and successfully make the best out of the funny moments while not betraying his characterization of Bond. He also brought out all the charm he failed to show in the previous film.
Anyway, to sum it up, I'd have Skyfall be more ironic and playful. That's the most important thing. The rest of the things are all secondary.
It's obvious he hid it up his arse,to me.
Tonally, I think the film overall works for Craig's Bond, and that's why it's easily my favourite entry of his.
-The plot really didn't bother me much at the time, but it rightly takes some stick for being rather convoluted (in the "villain who wants to be caught" sense) and resting on a whole lot of luck, coincidence, or things beyond the characters' control.
-In retrospect, what was silva's plan? Embarrass M and then kill her? Then why go through all the other steps?
-There are some other moments that are needed to drive the plot but are frustrating as character choices: is Q really stupid enough to plug Silva's laptop into the MI6 network? Is Bond really stupid enough to retreat to the Skyfall manor with a single handgun and one spare magazine? Is M really stupid enough to escape from the manor across the moors using a big flashlight? Etc etc. - none of these moments is fatal, but it does make it harder to feel sympathy for the characters when bad things come of their stupid choices.
-Something is off with the lighting and/or makeup as Bond arrives on the boat to the Macau casino. He looks clownish. Fix please.
-A few of the line deliveries are a little awkward (". . .It's called 'radio.'" "Severine." "Old dog." etc.) One more take on those, please.
-I'm torn in terms of the general 'weight' of the film. It's great, but it's not easy going. Is there any way you could trim run time or add some levity without sacrificing what makes the film great? I don't know. . .
And as always, some things I wouldn't change:
-great title track
-stunning visuals
-some great 'fan service' moments, like the Aston reveal, the porcelain bulldog, and the rooftop closing scene. It's just enough 'applause moments' without going too far.
-mostly solid cast
-the closing scenes might literally be the best in a Bond movie.
So it's not really surprising that the humour in Skyfall does divide fans. It is dark, sardonic and sarcastic. Given Bond's frame of mind thoughout most of the film, they really had no other options.
IMHO, it works very well and I think some of the lines compliment Craig's acting style (he's not RM, clearly).
SF, as a 50th anniversary film, is full of homages and references to past films. I remember some suggesting it could be a callback to CR (and I felt the same way at the time), but it could also be a callback to FRWL (Klebb/Tanya).
I get your point about newer films having to work a bit harder, as we all get a chance to see them far more often and generally analyze them more frequently due to all the technological innovations.
Frankly I'm surprised there aren't more 'fixing' comments for SF, since I know a lot of members take issue with the plot and conveniences.
Not just Bond though - that sarcasm pervades the entire cast. I personally like it, but can appreciate why it's not everyone's cup of tea.
@Birdleson that sounds quite sad
I was thinking about the bolded part of your post, and my first impression was to agree that they had to go the way they did given the story and Bond's questioning of himself and his relationship with M. But now I'm thinking an adjustment could've been made for the character of Bond that would've allowed the film to have a more pronounced sense of humor without betraying the essence of the drama. I've always thought in Skyfall Bond has a bit of a thousand-yard stare thing going on. He's doing the job but he appears introspective throughout. His mind is in another place-- he's questioning things. That works alright, but they could've expressed the conflict within Bond in another way: instead of having him turn inwards, they could've had him act out, like Connery in the DAF PTS, Dalton in LTK and... Craig in QoS. In those films Bond is more cruel and angry than usual. (Edit -- forgot the main part of my argument!) And I think that, crucially, that lends itself better to creating the type of humor I've referred to than an introspective feel. Likewise, in Skyfall, Bond's frustration with the turn of events at the beginning of the film could've manifested itself in a more intense, foul-tempered and less patient Bond. Mind you, after Quantum of Solace this would've been more of the same, but the fact both stories are "personal" is what is really to blame for that. And that type of characterization could've created a pleasing contrast at the end, with M's death triggering a catharsis in Bond that could've caused him to go from angry and intense to quiet and introspective. In the film they did make, Bond is generally at the same level of intensity throughout, including the ending, so what I suggset might've provided a more impactful ending.
Of course all of the above stems from my lack of appreciation for Skyfall's tone and humor. If you enjoy them --and a considerable number of people do--, more power to you.
Following the same logic, I was also thinking something which at first sounds ridiculous, but then not so much (@bondjames): Maybe Skyfall was too serious a film for Craig. I think Craig can be very charming in his own sardonic style (he was especially in Casino Royale and Spectre), but someone with the lighter touch of Roger Moore, even if not given many lighthearted scenes, might've easily transformed the gloomy tone of the film into something less dramatic, just on account of his presence and his history in the role, and without necessarily undermining the drama. As long as that actor had the right dramatic chops, it could've worked without any radical changes to the story.
I never once spoke about continuity. It's just that it seemed like unnecessary fanwankery to me.
A covered Lotus Esprit (very distinct profile) next to the Aston in the garage would have been fun.
He is a more experienced agent and can control and use his anger in other,more useful ways,hence the sarcastic,sardonic quips throughout.
It works for me.
Yes - I agree. I think his concern for Ronson, and disappointment at Patrice falling to his death before he got a chance to garner information from him is in direct contrast to his indifference to the people he kills in CR and QOS especially.
I think Bond has moved on as a character in SF and SP (which is why it's so frustrating that the script of SP is so determined to pull him into some personal trauma all over again when he doesn't seem interested in it...whoops...this is the SF thread isn't it! Sorry.)
RE: SF being a bit too serious for Craig: I can see where you're coming from here too. I don't mind it because I find the other characters around him (most notably Silva, as mentioned before - but also MP, Q, Kincaide etc.) quite humorous and an interesting counterbalance. Still, there's no denying that it's a 'moody film'. SF is Bond by way of 'Bat' imho. Nolan's influence is clear to me, and I believe Mendes wanted to make a film which captured the feel and tone of TDK. It seemed to work for many people, but it's not something I'd want to see repeated for B25.
Go for it.
Yeah! Once the discussion for SKYFALL is over, this discussion will become a more broad discussion, so people can talk about whatever films they like.
Agreed
@MadeleineSwann what about Spectre?
Filming on film (less cold cinematography)
Doing more with the card
No CNN
No metro scene
No Purple Road
No Batman music with elivator scene
Include delete scene with severine on rolling stairs.
Include training in the park delete scene (Taiser trailer)
Include chinees sea comment (as seen in final tv spot)
Macau Casino outside
Astin Martin DB5 ride with M is to long
Eve is Moneypenny introducing removed.
More Adele Skyfall in score and mabey alternate version for the end credits.
The movie need faster pacing and missing second or more Bondgirls.
There is already a discussion page for SPECTRE. If anyone else wants to discuss what they would have done differently in Spectre, go to this page: https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/13737/spectre-what-would-you-have-done-differently/p1
Maybe they are cheaper than actual actors? And they already know how to read from a script.
Dr.no
1. I feel strangway’s murder would work well as a PTS
2. The bond theme should of been the only music during the title sequence
3. Desmond Llewelyn should of been in the film
From Russia with Love
1. Kronsteen was criminally underused
2. The hand wave at the end was annoying
Goldfinger
1. Loose the shot of Goldfinger sleeping while oddjob drives
2. Oddly enough the fan made n64 game solves a glaring issue Having Bond talk to the CIA with Pussy then volunteering to go back into custody so Goldfinger doesn’t suspect a thing solves most of my issues with Bond doing nothing in the second half
I am sure I will come up with more
Also why are we not doing Casino Royale 1954