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Dr. No versus the field: Skyfall

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  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE (among the best)
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: TWINE
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 10
    TWINE: 7
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE (i'm basing this on Elektra)
    Main Bond Girl: TWINE (also Elektra)
    Henchman: DN ( Prof Dent - brilliant !)
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: TWINE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TWINE (Desmond and Zukovsky's last outing.)
    Glamour: TWINE
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 6
    TWINE: 11
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: TWINE
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: TWINE
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: TWINE
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: TWINE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: TWINE
    Glamour: TWINE
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 4
    TWINE: 13
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Title Track: DN (Bond theme wins it - although TWINE is one of the better Brosnan era theme tunes.)

    Title Credits: TWINE (Slickly done - I like both TND and TWINE's credits)

    Main Villain: DN (elektra and renard are joint lead villains and both actors are great but DN wins this.)

    Main Bond Girl: DN (Honey vs Christmas...easy win for Honey)

    Henchman: DN (if this was renard he'd win it hands down but I always say that he and Elektra are a dual lead villain combo so this goes to Dent.)

    Overall Plot: DN (I like TWINE's ambition even if it far exceeds its reach. This is one of the bond films I often look at and can see the obvious spots to improve the plot to make this push the top half rather than the bottom half of bond films - where it unfortunately rests.)

    Dialogue: DN (ice cold Connery and wiseman exchanges)

    Score: TWINE (Arnold does some nice work here)

    Settings: DN (I find TWINE's locations a little uninspiring)

    Action: TWINE (PTS and underground shootout aside TWINE's action is my least favourite of the Brosnan era. But it still has much more than DN's)

    Humour: DN (dead pan delivery of M, flirting with Moneypenny, black humour of DN and Bond, even Connery's prowling taunts with Miss Taro)

    Cinematography: DN (TWINE has some nice moments but I love the look of early 60s bond. Such care taken with it.)

    Benign Bizarre: DN (metal hands, spiders, 3 blind mice, dragons)

    Suspense: DN (TWINE has lulls in the narrative, particularly early on. The suspense suffers for chunks of the film. The part when Brosnan impersonates davidoff and the first underground meeting with renard are excellent. But then it clocks off for a large portion before and after that.)

    Minor Characters: TWINE (for Robbie coltrane.)

    Glamour: DN (the casino sequence in DN is close to my favourite in the series, the one in TWINE is close to the bottom. Says it all for the glamour.)

    Bond Performance: DN (Brosnan has his moments in TWINE, he also has some poor ones. I think it's a shame as with another rewrite and some smoothing out of the tone this film could have really stood out from the rest of his era. But then you have Connery in DN which is as close to cool perfection as cinema gets, let alone a Bond film.)

    DN: 13
    TWINE: 4

    DN Is top flight bond and I adore it but I've often returned to TWINE and seen the potential - it really could have been something special. Which I could never say about TND. TND is pure action set pieces and aims for nothing more. Yet because of these self imposed limitations it is more successful. TWINE is frustrating because it has the blueprint of an out of the box bond film - like LTK or OHMSS or QOS - and that appeals to me. But it doesn't have the conviction - it doesn't follow through. If I could rewrite one Bond film it would be TWINE.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: TWINE
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 14
    TWINE: 3

  • TR007TR007
    Posts: 1,165
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: TWINE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:TWINE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: TWINE

    DN: 10
    TWINE: 7
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Didn’t do TND so I’m starting with that one first.

    Title Track: TND
    Title Credits: TND
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TND
    Settings: DN
    Action: TND
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 13
    TND: 4

    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: TWINE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 11
    TWINE: 6
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    Margin out of 100: (DN-TWINE)

    Title Track: TWINE (30-70)
    Genuinely good sound for a modern Bond theme tune.
    Title Credits: TWINE (25-75)
    One of the most provocative sequences.
    Main Villain: TWINE (45-55)
    There is an infatuation that Elektra draws that lends to the effectiveness of the character.
    Main Bond Girl: DN (80-20)
    The beauty is there for Christmas, but Honey doesn't pretend to be something she is not and that adds a layer of sophistication.
    Henchman: DN (55-45)
    I like the general ensemble of henchman in TWINE, but there are too many moving pieces to give them this category.
    Overall Plot: DN (70-30)
    Another magnificently ambitious plot that goes unfulfilled in the Brosnan era, some elements of which were borrowed and improved upon in SF.
    Dialogue: DN (75-25)
    This is where the quality of writing took a noticeable hit--only to sink lower in the next.
    Score: TWINE (15-85)
    David Arnold orchestrates some of the most memorable themes of this era.
    Settings: DN (75-25)
    Once again not all of the locales get the most bang for their buck.
    Action: TWINE (30-70)
    I feel like this was close to the height of the franchise as far as gadgets goes, with the boat chase in the PTS and the caviar factory being two memorable action set pieces.
    Humor: TWINE (35-65)
    While the quality of humor dipped, TWINE is one of the most comfortable and casual films at delivering one-liners.
    Cinematography: DN (80-20)
    Some elements of TWINE are weak, particularly the ski chase as admitted by Brosnan himself in interview.
    Benign Bizarre: DN (60-40)
    "I didn't need to. We had an encyclopedia. I started at A when I was eight, and now I've reached T. I bet I know a lot more things than you do."
    Suspense: DN (60-40)
    TWINE has moments of great suspense, which disappointingly are not followed up throughout the entire picture.
    Minor Characters: TWINE (40-60)
    Desmond Llewelyn's farewell as Q is profound and contributes some of his best work in the character through his honest fondness of Brosnan's Bond that in unparalleled in my mind relative to the other Bonds.
    Glamor: DN (65-35)
    TWINE makes a run for it at the casino, but falls short of classic Connery.
    Bond Performance: DN (65-35)
    While this is not the most detailed performance of Brosnan, this is the culmination of his character development and it is quite enjoyable.

    DN (10) (49.7-50.3) (7) TWINE

    TWINE was the favorite Bond of my youth and, while it has not aged particularly well, it is still a wonderful escapist entry in the franchise that I endear in the top half of my rankings (most of the time).
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2018 Posts: 1,263
    Disappointing to see TWINE in the body bag for @Birdleson who I know gives all of these highly valued opinions. TWINE has been favorable for me in recent viewings; perhaps you may find more to like out of it in future viewings (though I know some of the categories are very close and DN is a strong entry).

    @Major_Boothroyd I enjoyed reading your write up!
  • ringfire211ringfire211
    Posts: 654
    Title Track: TWINE - the best title theme of the Brosnan era
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: TWINE - I love the idea that Bond is basically used as a murder instrument in this one, as he delivers the bomb that kills King. Very clever!
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TWINE - one of Arnold's best (especially the boat chase theme), I don't understand how some people are giving this one to Norman and DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: TWINE - for Q's farewell alone
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN - 11
    TWINE - 6
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!

    It isn t about the amount, but the thrill it gives, for me anyway.
  • ringfire211ringfire211
    Posts: 654
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!

    It isn t about the amount, but the thrill it gives, for me anyway.
    That’s all fine and well but what “action” thrills you in DN? I for one think the boat chase in TWINE is very thrilling. I agree that the remainder of the action in the film is subpar but the boat chase is definitely a standout! But back to the original question - what “action” does DN offer? TWINE wins this one by default. At least it has action.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Personally i love the great choreography and light-heartedness of the caviar factory scene,although i know i'm in the minority of anything i like in TWINE.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!

    It isn t about the amount, but the thrill it gives, for me anyway.
    That’s all fine and well but what “action” thrills you in DN? I for one think the boat chase in TWINE is very thrilling. I agree that the remainder of the action in the film is subpar but the boat chase is definitely a standout! But back to the original question - what “action” does DN offer? TWINE wins this one by default. At least it has action.

    There is the fight with the driver, the car chase, the fight with Dr No Not that many, but enough. The boat chase in TWINE absolutely bores me. Most of the film does.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Is it time to go onto the next one yet?
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    I always forget about the car chase in DN, intentionally! Connery's wheel spinning is up there with Brosnan's pain face!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Mansfield wrote: »
    I always forget about the car chase in DN, intentionally! Connery's wheel spinning is up there with Brosnan's pain face!

    He is also gritting his teeth a lot.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Not exactly his finest hour.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Mansfield wrote: »
    I always forget about the car chase in DN, intentionally! Connery's wheel spinning is up there with Brosnan's pain face!

    He is also gritting his teeth a lot.

    One more screw....... of the steering wheel.
  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    Posts: 1,596
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: TWINE (if Renard counts)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN (lol)
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: n/a
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    Dr. No - 13
    The World Is Not Enough - 3

    ---

    Not a good movie, but if I think about it TWINE's plot isn't half bad for a Bond film, it's in the execution where it really falls flat.

    On the action front, DN takes it because there's at least a physical feel and thrill to them. TWINE's action, while choreographically and technologically superior, is uninspired and mostly lifeless. It's a close one, though, because of how bereft DN is of "true" action sequences. So, I opted to not vote.
  • ringfire211ringfire211
    Posts: 654
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!

    It isn t about the amount, but the thrill it gives, for me anyway.
    That’s all fine and well but what “action” thrills you in DN? I for one think the boat chase in TWINE is very thrilling. I agree that the remainder of the action in the film is subpar but the boat chase is definitely a standout! But back to the original question - what “action” does DN offer? TWINE wins this one by default. At least it has action.

    There is the fight with the driver, the car chase, the fight with Dr No Not that many, but enough. The boat chase in TWINE absolutely bores me. Most of the film does.
    The boat chase that absolutely bores me is the one in QOS. When it begins I immediately tune out because I can’t tell a single thing happening in that mess. I just fast forward to the next scene. The boat chase in TWINE and LALD (my favorite Bond film) is how I love my boat chases. Expertly filmed and choreographed, the geography of the scene clearly laid out, and backed by a fantastic soundtrack! The TWINE PTS is worth the price of admission alone! I never tire of watching it.

    You mention Bond punching Mr. Jones in DN? You mean when he swings one arm at him but ends up punching him with the other? Lol. Come on now. DN is an extraordinary Bond debut and head and shoulders above TWINE, but I can’t possibly with a straight face say its “action” or “score” is better than TWINE’s.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Mansfield wrote: »

    @Major_Boothroyd I enjoyed reading your write up!

    Thanks @Mansfield ! As I enjoyed reading yours. This is one of my favourite threads - and I find it fascinating and insightful to read through every poster's category breakdowns of these films. You obviously put a bit of thought into yours (like the individual weighting you've employed too.)

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!

    It isn t about the amount, but the thrill it gives, for me anyway.
    That’s all fine and well but what “action” thrills you in DN? I for one think the boat chase in TWINE is very thrilling. I agree that the remainder of the action in the film is subpar but the boat chase is definitely a standout! But back to the original question - what “action” does DN offer? TWINE wins this one by default. At least it has action.

    There is the fight with the driver, the car chase, the fight with Dr No Not that many, but enough. The boat chase in TWINE absolutely bores me. Most of the film does.
    The boat chase that absolutely bores me is the one in QOS. When it begins I immediately tune out because I can’t tell a single thing happening in that mess. I just fast forward to the next scene. The boat chase in TWINE and LALD (my favorite Bond film) is how I love my boat chases. Expertly filmed and choreographed, the geography of the scene clearly laid out, and backed by a fantastic soundtrack! The TWINE PTS is worth the price of admission alone! I never tire of watching it.

    You mention Bond punching Mr. Jones in DN? You mean when he swings one arm at him but ends up punching him with the other? Lol. Come on now. DN is an extraordinary Bond debut and head and shoulders above TWINE, but I can’t possibly with a straight face say its “action” or “score” is better than TWINE’s.

    Agree about the boat chases in those other two films.

    Don t forget the fight with the tarantula! The one on the glass plate.
  • ringfire211ringfire211
    edited August 2018 Posts: 654
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    ringfire211 wrote: »
    Action: TWINE - another one I can't understand some giving this to DN. First of all DN has zero action and secondly the PTS boat chase is amazing!

    It isn t about the amount, but the thrill it gives, for me anyway.
    That’s all fine and well but what “action” thrills you in DN? I for one think the boat chase in TWINE is very thrilling. I agree that the remainder of the action in the film is subpar but the boat chase is definitely a standout! But back to the original question - what “action” does DN offer? TWINE wins this one by default. At least it has action.

    There is the fight with the driver, the car chase, the fight with Dr No Not that many, but enough. The boat chase in TWINE absolutely bores me. Most of the film does.
    The boat chase that absolutely bores me is the one in QOS. When it begins I immediately tune out because I can’t tell a single thing happening in that mess. I just fast forward to the next scene. The boat chase in TWINE and LALD (my favorite Bond film) is how I love my boat chases. Expertly filmed and choreographed, the geography of the scene clearly laid out, and backed by a fantastic soundtrack! The TWINE PTS is worth the price of admission alone! I never tire of watching it.

    You mention Bond punching Mr. Jones in DN? You mean when he swings one arm at him but ends up punching him with the other? Lol. Come on now. DN is an extraordinary Bond debut and head and shoulders above TWINE, but I can’t possibly with a straight face say its “action” or “score” is better than TWINE’s.

    Agree about the boat chases in those other two films.

    Don t forget the fight with the tarantula! The one on the glass plate.
    You agree about the boat chases in LALD and TWINE? But I thought you said the TWINE boat chase bores you.

    Ah, yes the iconic fight with the tarantula. And of course the shoe going BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! Hey that entire sequence is iconic indeed but I put that in the suspense column, not the action column. Did Connery need a stunt double or some sort of harness to bang his shoe against the ground?? LOL!

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    No, the other two, LALD and QOS.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    Major_Boothroyd wrote: »
    Thanks @Mansfield ! As I enjoyed reading yours. This is one of my favourite threads - and I find it fascinating and insightful to read through every poster's category breakdowns of these films. You obviously put a bit of thought into yours (like the individual weighting you've employed too.)
    I like to read the ones with diverging opinions. We all have a different strata of classification for what makes us enjoy a film and it helps to foster appreciation for the ones each of us see as less enjoyable.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: TWINE
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: TWINE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    Dr. No - 10
    The World Is Not Enough - 7

    DN is well ahead of TWINE on my rankings, but the match was much closer by the Bond formula numbers.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Guess this is around the time to ask for final entries, after the little burst of activity we saw at the end of August.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Title Track: DN (Bond Theme)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: DN
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    Dr. No - 15
    The World Is Not Enough - 2
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    It was another relatively low-scoring game, although there was plenty of discussion, and Dr. No kept up its winning ways, taking home a score of 184-93-1. That was actually quite a bit closer than the games, which went DN's way by a whopping 14-2. It's now time to move to the final film of the original continuity, whatever that means, as DN takes on the immortal Die Another Day!

    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DAD (actually pretty good)
    Main Villain: DN (come, now)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (repeat 4x)
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DAD
    Settings: DN
    Action: DAD (there's certainly a lot of it, and some is even good)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN (take that, weird slow-mo, zoom-in thing)
    Benign Bizarre: DN (DAD is bizarre, but not very benign)
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN (Pierce does his best, but he can't compete.)

    DAD scrapes a couple categories, in something of a moral victory, but it still falls by an overwhelming 14-3 margin. Well, let's see if it can manage a win on any of yours.
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