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What is the reason for the 'flying boat' in QOS ?

barryt007barryt007
in Bond Movies Posts: 19,339
Just to not disturb other threads about this unexplained moment,i have created this for us to talk in.

I am watching QOS right now ,and I have replayed the moment over and over again ,and it is definitely an anchor that Bond throws off his boat.

BUT if you listen just before he throws it,he actually says 'anchor'...have a listen...

Any views ?
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Comments

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    I saw QoS the other day and I'm quite confident that it's an 'anchor' that capsizes the boat.

    It is never shown, but my best guess is that one end of it fell/ was thrown into the water and is so heavy that it would need a large force to move. Bond takes advantage of the situation and attaches the other end to their boat. So that would explain the boat's sudden halt and why it was 'leaning' forward.

    The reason we don't know how exactly it works is due to the awful editing. Every fault of QoS can be traced back to the editing.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Did you hear Bond say anchor ? I only heard it today when I watched that scene and confirmed it 3 times.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    No, I don't remember hearing that but I'll take your word for it.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    have a look next time ....
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Just watched and I'll give you that he seems to say 'anchor'.

    But at no point do I see an anchor, only a kind of grappling hook thing which he attaches to the boat.

    All we need is a half second shot of Bond lobbing an anchor over the side but I'm afraid it simply isn't there so we are only speculating.

    I wonder if they realised in the cutting room they didn't have that shot so dubbed Bond saying 'anchor' over the top to try and get it to make sense for the audience?

    Christ even the tilting car insert in DAF made a better fist of it than that.

    Poor action sequence, appalling editing, terrible filmmaking.

  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Another major problem with this scene; how could an anchor be so immovably heavy as to flip a speeding boat, but light enough to be on board Bond's boat and be thrown over the side by Bond (and thrown so quickly that we don't even see it happen)?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    It's a terrible thing, when it has to be broken down to try and understand what is happening. A major reason why QOS ranks near the very bottom is its poor editing and storytelling.
    The only thing I can possibly note is, the boat that hits Bond and Camille, and rides up the back of their boat has a largely inflatable body. Bond uses a grappling hook (which is conveniently laying around) and throws it into the pursuing boat. Upon pulling the rope of the grappling hook taught, the inflatable hull of the boat is ruptured and for some reason causes it to fly into the air. That's about all I can gather. Again, a terrible scene, poorly executed.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,812
    Could be some unrecognized film technique.

  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    You guys are over analyzing I think daniel craig is just grunting
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Benny wrote: »
    It's a terrible thing, when it has to be broken down to try and understand what is happening. A major reason why QOS ranks near the very bottom is its poor editing and storytelling.
    The only thing I can possibly note is, the boat that hits Bond and Camille, and rides up the back of their boat has a largely inflatable body. Bond uses a grappling hook (which is conveniently laying around) and throws it into the pursuing boat. Upon pulling the rope of the grappling hook taught, the inflatable hull of the boat is ruptured and for some reason causes it to fly into the air. That's about all I can gather. Again, a terrible scene, poorly executed.
    This is what I assumed as well.

    Agreed, @JamesBondKenya.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2017 Posts: 9,117
    More desperate flailing married to a total disregard for physics:
    Benny wrote: »
    The only thing I can possibly note is, the boat that hits Bond and Camille, and rides up the back of their boat has a largely inflatable body. Bond uses a grappling hook (which is conveniently laying around) and throws it into the pursuing boat. Upon pulling the rope of the grappling hook taught

    Who or what pulls the rope taut? Bond doesnt he just lobs in the grappling hook and then the next shot is of the rope paying out for some inexplicable reason (the only logical explanation is it is attached to some sort of weight - the anchor - which has been thrown over the side).
    Benny wrote: »
    the inflatable hull of the boat is ruptured and for some reason causes it to fly into the air.

    'Ruptured' (which we never see happen by the way) and this causes it to 'fly into the air'?

    I suppose if the boat was inflated to 1 million PSI then rupturing the hull might result in an air cannon effect and fire it into the sky?

    But the reality is it would probably just go 'phhht' and slowly lose buoyancy in a not very spectacular fashion.

    Not blaming you for trying to come up with something as the more you pick it apart the worse it gets but this theory comes nowhere near to me.

    The other end is attached to an anchor is still the most credible hypothesis and even this has several holes.

    Maybe we need to write to Mythbusters?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 2017 Posts: 10,591


    At 2:27, it sounds to me as of something is rupturing.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    jake24 wrote: »


    At 2:26, it sounds to me as of something is rupturing.

    Actually looking at that again I might owe Benny an apology.

    It could be that the grappling hook punctures the hull (what causes the rope to have tension is still a mystery) which then fires the nose down which digs into the water and flips the boat.

    It would still need the 1 million PSI pressure to have enough force to push it down into the water but its almost as credible as the anchor theory I guess.

    Although at 2.26.8 (I'm guessing here - says it all when 1 second isnt specific enough and covers about 4 different shots) inbetween the rope paying out shot and the shot of the guy kind of lying across the bow theres a perhaps 3 frame shot of the grappling hook about to pierce the side of the boat. However the position of those holes would mean that the, in effect, jet propulsion caused by the piercing and consequent gas expulsion would be to thrust the boat forwards rather than downwards. To result in a downward vector of thrust the holes would need to be on the top not the side as it appears they would be if this theory is to hold water.

    It would be nice if the director could just film it coherently in the first place and we didnt have to dissect the scene frame by frame just to come up with these unsatisfying theories.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    @TheWizardOfIce I recall the hull-puncturing theory as being the "official" explanation. I can't for the life of me recall when or where, however.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,718
    No one seems to have asked the most obvious question: Why does the flip even happen in the first place? As you can see in the clip posted by @jake24, the enemy boat is on top of Bond's boat starting at 2:16 seconds. Bond throws the hook/anchor whatever at the 2:24 mark. The boat flips at 2:27 mark, with Bond still trying to 'hook' it correctly. At no moment does Bond accelerate his own boat (he only handles the hook). Now: analyze the entire 11 seconds sequence, and both boats are in the middle of the water with nothing remotly around them apart from water. So, I ask : if the enemy boat was on top of Bond's boat for 10 seconds already, why would hooking ANYTHING to it accomplish anything? Bond does not accelerate his own boat, doesn't steer it, he only hooks up that rope/whatever.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a shot missing.

    I don't buy this anchor theory. Craig doesn't say anchor in that clip. He's just grunting.

    What I think happens is that the crew rocking the inflatable (to get free from Bond's boat) makes the inflatable slide down the back of Bond's boat (missing shot). At the same time one of the crew is trying to get to the front of the inflatable which adds downward pressure. As the inflatable tips down and backwards the rope tightens and the inflatable's motor rises out of the water. This causes Bond's boat to accelerate relative to the inflatable thereby flipping it on account of the chap's weight on the front, the motor out of the water and the hook and rope doing the rest.

    EDIT: I think I'm right on the inflatable sliding backwards. Freeze it at 2:18 and look at the position of the inflatable in relation to Bond's boat. Then freeze it at 2:27 and look again. It's definitely slid back dramatically (with the chap right on the front of it). That's what tightened the rope and caused it to dip forward.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I've listened and listened to it,and I still hear 'anchor !'...
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,021
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I've listened and listened to it,and I still hear 'anchor !'...

    Pretty sure he does say 'anchor' you have to really listen intently though.

    From watching the clip a few times the anchor bursts the dinghy causing the nose to sharply dip (helped by the weight of the bad guy), paired with the speed causes the boat to flip as it hits the water. Sorted.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a shot missing.

    I don't buy this anchor theory. Craig doesn't say anchor in that clip. He's just grunting.

    What I think happens is that the crew rocking the inflatable (to get free from Bond's boat) makes the inflatable slide down the back of Bond's boat (missing shot). At the same time one of the crew is trying to get to the front of the inflatable which adds downward pressure. As the inflatable tips down and backwards the rope tightens and the inflatable's motor rises out of the water. This causes Bond's boat to accelerate relative to the inflatable thereby flipping it on account of the chap's weight on the front, the motor out of the water and the hook and rope doing the rest.

    EDIT: I think I'm right on the inflatable sliding backwards. Freeze it at 2:18 and look at the position of the inflatable in relation to Bond's boat. Then freeze it at 2:27 and look again. It's definitely slid back dramatically (with the chap right on the front of it). That's what tightened the rope and caused it to dip forward.

    Nah.

    Sorry to sound like a broken record but, apart from you making up missing shots to help your argument, l would again have to question the physics.

    At 2.26 the rope starts to tighten and at 2.27 the boat is clearly pulled out violently from under the guy. His weight has no effect on anything and the boat does not slide backwards it is yanked backwards.

    The boat is not made of paper. It's a rigid inflatable that can easily carry at least 6 people. There's two guys on it and the notion that one man's weight (unless he's 1000 stone) on the front of the boat would be enough to unbalance it and lift the propellor out of the water is extremely questionable.

    Besides the boat is resting on a pivot (Bond's boat) with about 2/5 on the Bond's boat side of the pivot and 3/5 on the sea side of the pivot. I'm not sure of the precise moments calculations but I think for the man's weight to tip it so the tail lifts out of the water it needs to be close to double the weight of the other guy and the outboard motor.

    In addition if Bond's boat suddenly accelerates due to your hypothesis above (although I see no evidence of this. Bond's boat stays the same and the villains boat is pulled violently backwards - well more precisely stops abruptly - which causes the guy to be thrown forwards at 2.27) and this tightens the rope which flips the boat why does nothing happen to Bond's boat? If the rope is attached to each boat and one flips (for whatever reason) wouldn't the equal and opposite reaction on the rope at least pull the back off Bond's (pretty clapped out) boat?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    The enemy boat is on top of Bond's boat for 8 seconds before Bond hooks the rope/anchor. Everyone seems to missing the point that Bond did nothing to make it flip. For 8 seconds neither Bond accelerates his boat, nor do the villains, so the boats are going at constant speed compared to each other. What does hooking a rope accomplish? Nothing. We're all trying to explain why it flipped, but the bottom line is it shouldn't have flipped.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,994
    Well, because of the bad editing, we'll neverknow for sure. And that's the problem with QOS. And I don't care what the director said he wanted to accomplish with that, he failed. Miserably.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    The enemy boat is on top of Bond's boat for 8 seconds before Bond hooks the rope/anchor. Everyone seems to missing the point that Bond did nothing to make it flip. For 8 seconds neither Bond accelerates his boat, nor do the villains, so the boats are going at constant speed compared to each other. What does hooking a rope accomplish? Nothing. We're all trying to explain why it flipped, but the bottom line is it shouldn't have flipped.

    We've been getting tied up in increasingly complicated contortions when you've been able to sum it up so succinctly old chap.

    Absolutely correct. Bond throws the grappling hook into their boat and that's it!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    The enemy boat is on top of Bond's boat for 8 seconds before Bond hooks the rope/anchor. Everyone seems to missing the point that Bond did nothing to make it flip. For 8 seconds neither Bond accelerates his boat, nor do the villains, so the boats are going at constant speed compared to each other. What does hooking a rope accomplish? Nothing. We're all trying to explain why it flipped, but the bottom line is it shouldn't have flipped.

    We've been getting tied up in increasingly complicated contortions when you've been able to sum it up so succinctly old chap.

    Absolutely correct. Bond throws the grappling hook into their boat and that's it!
    Well then there must have been an anchor connected to the other end of the hook. No other explanation for it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    And I thought I was looking too heavily into things when debating that 2006/2008 time jump between CR/QoS.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    But at the end of the day Bond does say 'anchor'....something we have all missed....doesn't help anything but ,in a harbour,couldnt the grappling hook be used as an anchor ?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    barryt007 wrote: »
    But at the end of the day Bond does say 'anchor'....something we have all missed....doesn't help anything but ,in a harbour,couldnt the grappling hook be used as an anchor ?
    Pretty sure he's grunting, mate.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    He's grunting. It sounds like EHHHH ERRRRR!!!! Or better yet a Thwomp.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I admit that it would be a weird thing to say,and I hope i'm wrong,as it is total 'suggestion' to the viewer.
  • GumboldGumbold Atlantis
    Posts: 118
    jake24 wrote: »


    At 2:27, it sounds to me as of something is rupturing.

    Just watched it in slow motion. They're missing a shot of him throwing the other end off his boat, and when the boat flips, you can clearly tell daniel craig is CGI'd in to the frame.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Gumbold wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »


    At 2:27, it sounds to me as of something is rupturing.

    Just watched it in slow motion. They're missing a shot of him throwing the other end off his boat, and when the boat flips, you can clearly tell daniel craig is CGI'd in to the frame.

    That's the key to it. If there was a shot of Bond throwing the other end which is attached to a heavy anchor over the side I could live with it.
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