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What is the reason for the 'flying boat' in QOS ?

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    @barryt007 I'll rely on your expertise here: if the grappling hook can be used as an anchor, how would you proceed with the hook?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    From what I gathered, Bond tosses the hook over onto the bad boat, the hook lands in the bad boat then it immediately gets yanked down and gets sent flying due to the forward momentum of Bond's boat.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    From what I gathered, Bond tosses the hook over onto the bad boat, the hook lands in the bad boat then it immediately gets yanked down and gets sent flying due to the forward momentum of Bond's boat.

    Why?

    The villains boat has marooned on Bond's so they are both going at the same speed. Bond's boat never changes speed after he deliberately slows it to get the villains boat to mount his.

    All we can say for sure is he throws the hook in and then their boat is yanked down by some force that (it is implied) has something to do with the rope and the grappling hook. We cant even confirm what the other end of the rope is attached to can we?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    I hate to ask silly questions, but surely the hook has to go in the water, and not inside the other boat? Even if there is missing footage of Bond throwing the other end off his own boat, didn't he technically begin by throwing the wrong end inside the villains' boat?
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    All this talk is making me want to pop in QoS Blu ray and go frame by frame.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    PropertyOfALady wrote: »
    All this talk is making me want to pop in QoS Blu ray and go frame by frame.

    Always love having a reason to pop in QoS!
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited July 2017 Posts: 19,339
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    @barryt007 I'll rely on your expertise here: if the grappling hook can be used as an anchor, how would you proceed with the hook?

    The amount of boats I have fallen off or head-butted bridges while on board ,means I'm not qualified..i am a disaster afloat...im just throwing the idea out there,my old pal..

    This is as big a mystery as my 'Spot the Adams' thread !
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    Haha, I'm in the same boat as you, @barryt007! (please forgive the pun) :D
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Haha, I'm in the same boat as you, @barryt007! (please forgive the pun) :D


    Ooh well played.. nice one !
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    So we're back to the premise that it's not an anchor after all.

    Well then the big mystery remains what caused the sudden rope tightening and the similarly rapid downward push of the front of the inflatable boat?
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited July 2017 Posts: 19,339
    My point,as silly as it is,is that can a grappling hook be used as anchor in shallow water,as the harbour Bond's boat is in ?

    Or is it not strong enough ?
    I mean,would a small boat,already made of heavy steel,need a real anchor ?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    @barryt007 I assume you are 100% correct, but the movie falls flat on its face when Bond throws the hook inside the villain's boat instead of in the water, which kind of defeats the purpose of what seems to be Bond's intention. And even if that was part of his plan, it doesn't explain why the rope starts tightening because for the previous 8 seconds, both boats were going at constant speed, and at no point during these seconds did Bond touch his control panel to accelerate.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited July 2017 Posts: 13,940
    Did it go in the villain's boat or over the side into the water aft?
    prop1-150x150.jpg
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    @barryt007 I assume you are 100% correct, but the movie falls flat on its face when Bond throws the hook inside the villain's boat instead of in the water, which kind of defeats the purpose of what seems to be Bond's intention. And even if that was part of his plan, it doesn't explain why the rope starts tightening because for the previous 8 seconds, both boats were going at constant speed, and at no point during these seconds did Bond touch his control panel to accelerate.

    Well I understand Bond's logic if there's an anchor on the other end of the rope. He attaches the grappling hook to their boat and lobs the anchor over the side hoping it will catch on something underwater and at the very least rip a chunk off their boat but he gets lucky and the nose digs in and it flips.

    BUT there is no anchor. What causes the rope to start to spool on 2.26?
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    If you freeze-frame that youtube clip at 2:27, you'll see Daniel Craig reaching out toward the front of the boat right before it flips. The grappling hook was clearly meant as a distraction while Craig takes hold of the bottom of their boat with both hands and heaves it into the air Hulk-style.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    If you freeze-frame that youtube clip at 2:27, you'll see Daniel Craig reaching out toward the front of the boat right before it flips. The grappling hook was clearly meant as a distraction while Craig takes hold of the bottom of their boat with both hands and heaves it into the air Hulk-style.

    The sad thing is even this explanation doesn't make sense, because as you say, we'd expect Hulk-Bond to heave it into the air, yet if you freeze frame for another tenths of a second, you notice the boat actually gets sucked into the water before being catapulted into the air.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    If you freeze-frame that youtube clip at 2:27, you'll see Daniel Craig reaching out toward the front of the boat right before it flips. The grappling hook was clearly meant as a distraction while Craig takes hold of the bottom of their boat with both hands and heaves it into the air Hulk-style.

    The sad thing is even this explanation doesn't make sense, because as you say, we'd expect Hulk-Bond to heave it into the air, yet if you freeze frame for another tenths of a second, you notice the boat actually gets sucked into the water before being catapulted into the air.

    I'd just chalk that up to sloppy editing.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    I've spent another few minutes of freeze-framing before going to bed. At the 2:19 mark we have a clear view of the front end of the villain's boat. Now, if we look at the close-up of the hook itself at the 2:21 mark, there is another big problem that rubbishes every explanation mentioned in the thread: there isn't anything for the hook to 'cling on' to in the first place! Even if we assume there are missing shots of Craig dropping the heavier end of the rope in the water, the hook isn't attached to anything, nor is it even remotely likely to get a 'foot-hold' so perfect the boat will catapult 5 meters in the air. The hook is the only thing that will be be flying around once the anchor gets stuck under water.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    The boat got sucked into Marc Forster's elements fetish. :))
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    Pretty clear what happens in that sequence, the anchor goes overboard and the boat flips over. Really clear.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    Pretty clear what happens in that sequence, the anchor goes overboard and the boat flips over. Really clear.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but 1) if the anchor goes overboard, the boat won't flip over as there is nothing for the hook Bond throws inside the boat to get ahold of, so Bond's actions accomplish nothing, and 2) you can freeze frame at the 2:21 mark to see that there's isn't any anchor in Bond's boat in the first place.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    If you freeze-frame that youtube clip at 2:27, you'll see Daniel Craig reaching out toward the front of the boat right before it flips. The grappling hook was clearly meant as a distraction while Craig takes hold of the bottom of their boat with both hands and heaves it into the air Hulk-style.

    The sad thing is even this explanation doesn't make sense, because as you say, we'd expect Hulk-Bond to heave it into the air, yet if you freeze frame for another tenths of a second, you notice the boat actually gets sucked into the water before being catapulted into the air.

    I'd just chalk that up to sloppy editing.

    Should've been the tagline for the QOS poster.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    Having looked myself, I can't see an anchor in Bond's boat... I think Forster just applied 'movie physics' and assumed it was reasonable for a boat to flip through the air like that... A frankly unintelligent way of ending a miserably edited action sequence.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    Why is it so difficult to find a reasonable explanation?

    Imagine an anchor (or a simple weight) that has a grappling hook attached to the other side of the rope. The anchor falls off the boat when they crash and the rope is maybe 600m long so we can't see it spool already. The anchor (or weight) doesn't even need to be hooked onto the lake's floor because of the masses inertia. Now, both boats are moving forward and therefore away from the anchor, so the rope spools fast. Bond sees it and takes advantage of the situation by throwing the hook onto the other boat. Rope becomes taught and the resulting flip is due to the angle of the anchor to the front of their boat.

    This answer works perfectly in line with what we see in the film. The editing does leave room for different ideas but since mine works... why not go with it?
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Actually, @BondAficionado, that's a very good suggestion. Probably the best I've seen. Bond's grunting "anchor" (it does sound like he says "anchor" low in the mix) could be a heavy-handed way of signifying that he realizes the anchor has dropped and that that's what's attached to the other end of the rope. Physics-wise, everything else checks out. Well, as far as movie physics goes.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I've always assumed, Bond grabs the anchor from the chasing boat, which sinks to the harbour floor. Causing the chasing Boat to flip ? Although I agree It's badly filmed with at least one insert shot missing.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,723
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    Why is it so difficult to find a reasonable explanation?

    Imagine an anchor (or a simple weight) that has a grappling hook attached to the other side of the rope. The anchor falls off the boat when they crash and the rope is maybe 600m long so we can't see it spool already. The anchor (or weight) doesn't even need to be hooked onto the lake's floor because of the masses inertia. Now, both boats are moving forward and therefore away from the anchor, so the rope spools fast. Bond sees it and takes advantage of the situation by throwing the hook onto the other boat. Rope becomes taught and the resulting flip is due to the angle of the anchor to the front of their boat.

    This answer works perfectly in line with what we see in the film. The editing does leave room for different ideas but since mine works... why not go with it?

    Your explanation makes perfect sense, but the main problem is nothing of what you say happens in the film. You explain exactly what should happen in the sequence, but the film defies any logic we apply in our explanations, which is the core of the problem. It's obvious that the anchor is the only solution, but freeze framing shows that 1) there isn't any anchor in Bond's boat or the villain's boat, and 2) even if we by-pass the missing anchor, there is nothing on the front end of the villain's boat for the grappling hook to hold on to. Assuming we add a shot of Bond throwing an anchor in the water, the only thing that would happen is the hook flying in the air by itself because it simply does not have any kind of 'foot-hold' strong enough. We could add 20 minutes of footage to this boat chase, and the end results is the same: it is not physically possible for the villain's boat to flip based on what Bond is doing.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited July 2017 Posts: 3,000
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    Why is it so difficult to find a reasonable explanation?

    Imagine an anchor (or a simple weight) that has a grappling hook attached to the other side of the rope. The anchor falls off the boat when they crash and the rope is maybe 600m long so we can't see it spool already. The anchor (or weight) doesn't even need to be hooked onto the lake's floor because of the masses inertia. Now, both boats are moving forward and therefore away from the anchor, so the rope spools fast. Bond sees it and takes advantage of the situation by throwing the hook onto the other boat. Rope becomes taught and the resulting flip is due to the angle of the anchor to the front of their boat.

    This answer works perfectly in line with what we see in the film. The editing does leave room for different ideas but since mine works... why not go with it?

    I do believe that is what's intended, but the editing doesn't make that immediately clear, and we still never see the anchor. We also have no good reason for there being a grappling hook on the boat, unless it's meant to be the anchor, which by this explanation it can't be; the anchor has to be at the other end of the rope from the hook. The fact that there has to be this discussion to try to figure out a simple chase sequence shows the poor editing work on this film. It's also questionable that an anchor heavy enough to cause a speeding boat to flip could be on board Bond's tiny boat, and be lifted over the side by Bond. I suspect an anchor suitable for that size boat wouldn't have anywhere near the inertia necessary to flip the pursuing craft, but then again, it's only "movie logic."



    Some other thoughts on the scene, having just re-watched it on YouTube:

    I don't think Bond says "anchor." It just sounds like grunting to me.

    On first viewing of the film, I believed the boat's hull rupturing was intended to be the cause of the flip, but now I don't think so. Having watched it in slow-motion, it doesn't appear to deflate, but I do hear a puncturing sound. The hull never seems to lose enough air to even go slightly visibly slack. I still think that it's the force of the anchor that's supposed to be pulling the front end down, but it would make sense that the hull would be pierced in the process, as that would seem to be what the grappling hook latched onto.

    The people responsible for this scene should be required to watch the boat chase from TWINE until they learn what a good boat chase is, though the QOS chase is better than I remember it being.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Shame we cant get subtitles on the film because im sure he says 'anchor' just before the other boat flips.

    It's a cheap explanation to justify what happens next I think.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    If we ever get a director's commentary version, who knows there might be an answer.
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