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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/29/orange-order-protestants-told-not-to-use-rip-as-it-is-catholic-superstition

    I don't know what's more laughable/terrifying; that this childish drivel is considered an actual news story in a broadsheet paper or that these clowns now have the British government by the bollocks on every vote that goes through parliament.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you really think the Gruniad would look twice at this story?

    More the sort of story that George Osborne would run to be honest in his all-encompasing hatred of Theresa May and his deep misunderstanding of unionist politics in Northern Ireland.
  • Posts: 15,125
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs The elephant and the blind men analogy is an interesting one but fallacious in this instance: the elephant being from this natural world there's no doubt of his existence to begin with, for one. And the blind men are investigating with the resources at their disposition, not channeling out of thin air the image of an elephant. I first read about the story in a physic class in high school, explaining through it that one must not only gather data, but analyze them.

    @TheWizardOfIce I blame our dear PM. I start disliking her when she barged into that stupid Cadbury eggs controversy started by the C of E. She proved herself to be nothing more than a narrow minded, uneducated daughter of clergyman. Oh and the former leader of the Lib Dem was no better with his tap dancing on gay rights.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?
  • Posts: 15,125
    That deal is one with the Devil, and the people in the U.K. are being duped, pun intended.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs The elephant and the blind men analogy is an interesting one but fallacious in this instance: the elephant being from this natural world there's no doubt of his existence to begin with, for one. And the blind men are investigating with the resources at their disposition, not channeling out of thin air the image of an elephant. I first read about the story in a physic class in high school, explaining through it that one must not only gather data, but analyze them.

    The elephant analogy is actually more correct than you think.

    If the blind men just stay where they are and refuse to listen to each other or explore the elephant apart from their own little piece then they end up fighting each other over the true nature of an elephant because they all KNOW they are the one who is right. They also remain ignorant as to the appearance of an elephant.

    If however they exchange ideas with each other, listen to the evidence, walk around the elephant to discover more then they actually enlighten themselves to the truth.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @TheWizardOfIce I blame our dear PM. I start disliking her when she barged into that stupid Cadbury eggs controversy started by the C of E. She proved herself to be nothing more than a narrow minded, uneducated daughter of clergyman. Oh and the former leader of the Lib Dem was no better with his tap dancing on gay rights.

    It's rather depressing that they keep banging on that she's a vicar's daughter like that automatically makes her fit for the job.

    It's heartening to see the Lib Dem clown had to go because people these days aren't prepared to tolerate religious bullshit over basic human rights for gays. That at least suggests we are heading in the right direction.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron resigned due to their poor election result. The religious thing is just a red herring in my view. Quite disgraceful of him to use that as an excuse actually. That's my take on it anyway.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism of NI Protestants and unionists:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster? Typical of him to play the Orange card. Says a lot more about him and the type of wretched person he is than unionism in NI I think.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    wumo.gif
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.

    And that's exactly the general ignorance that George Osborne and the Gruniad peddles their tripe on. There's a whole Internet out there! You don't even have to exert yourself by going to a library any more. And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.
  • Posts: 15,125

    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron resigned due to their poor election result. The religious thing is just a red herring in my view. Quite disgraceful of him to use that as an excuse actually. That's my take on it anyway.

    I agree it was disgraceful. He basically draped himself in the cloak of the martyr and accused the British citizens to be intolerant towards his faith (the irony). But I do think his religious views were in conflict with the policies he and his party defended especially regarding gay rights and it hurt his credibility during the election, especially since he failed to convince voters of his sincerity. The Lib Dem did poorly for many reasons but this did play a role.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron resigned due to their poor election result. The religious thing is just a red herring in my view. Quite disgraceful of him to use that as an excuse actually. That's my take on it anyway.

    I agree it was disgraceful. He basically draped himself in the cloak of the martyr and accused the British citizens to be intolerant towards his faith (the irony). But I do think his religious views were in conflict with the policies he and his party defended especially regarding gay rights and it hurt his credibility during the election, especially since he failed to convince voters of his sincerity. The Lib Dem did poorly for many reasons but this did play a role.

    He's clearly in the wrong party then, isn't he? Time he joined the dreaded Tories! Also time that he came clean on the real reasons behind his self-serving resignation, though that's hard for a Liberal I know, given some of their past membership.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!

    No, of course I expected it. Still, it mostly keeps this type of religious discussion out of other threads and for that alone I am thankful.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!

    No, of course I expected it. Still, it mostly keeps this type of religious discussion out of other threads and for that alone I am thankful.

    I'm sure you are. The last thing the religious want is widespread discussion as more and more people might start to wake up to the fact the whole thing is built on foundations of sand. And quicksand at that.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2017 Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!

    No, of course I expected it. Still, it mostly keeps this type of religious discussion out of other threads and for that alone I am thankful.

    I'm sure you are. The last thing the religious want is widespread discussion as more and more people might start to wake up to the fact the whole thing is built on foundations of sand. And quicksand at that.

    No, as I explained in the OP it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads. I couldn't care less what is on here personally. If I was in fact that easily annoyed, would I even have created this thread as a rod for my own back? I think not.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!

    No, of course I expected it. Still, it mostly keeps this type of religious discussion out of other threads and for that alone I am thankful.

    I'm sure you are. The last thing the religious want is widespread discussion as more and more people might start to wake up to the fact the whole thing is built on foundations of sand. And quicksand at that.

    No, as I explained in the OP it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads. I couldn't care less what is on here personally. If I was in fact that easily annoyed, would I even have created this thread as a rod for my own back? I think not.

    But if you're right why is it a rod for your own back?

    Anyway I'm sure we all enjoy the irony of 'it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads'.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!

    No, of course I expected it. Still, it mostly keeps this type of religious discussion out of other threads and for that alone I am thankful.

    I'm sure you are. The last thing the religious want is widespread discussion as more and more people might start to wake up to the fact the whole thing is built on foundations of sand. And quicksand at that.

    No, as I explained in the OP it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads. I couldn't care less what is on here personally. If I was in fact that easily annoyed, would I even have created this thread as a rod for my own back? I think not.

    But if you're right why is it a rod for your own back?

    Anyway I'm sure we all enjoy the irony of 'it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads'.

    Creating the thread to hear a lot of atheist opinion and little else. We've paid our deposit. That's democracy. It's become like Hyde Park in here.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Typical of the Guardian to dredge that up at this time. Again, it's about being political as opposed to any interest in reporting on religion. If there was not the Tory-DUP deal in Parliament do you realky think the Gruniad wiukd look twice at this story?

    Yes but there is a Tory-DUP deal in parliament isn't there.

    These DUP clowns now hold sway in our parliament so now the drivel they spoit is no longer a parochial issue relating only to NI it affects us all. It's in the public interest to expose them now where it wasn't before.

    If most terrorists weren't Muslim do you think half the stories about Islam would run?

    Well, it was the Orange Order that spouted that, not the DUP, unless you are (erroneously) suggesting that the two are synonymous? Even the UUP (of which I'm a member) cut its links with the Orange Order back in 2004. And I'm no DUP apologist by the way - I'm one of their fiercest critics. However, cartoons like this are verging of racism:

    _96449584_mediaitem96449583.jpg

    DB4JW0fWsAAEyDU.jpg

    It's that old thing of mixing up religion and politics. Maybe George Osborne would be happy if I posted an anti-semitic cartoon or poster?

    No disrespect old chap but the rest of the country really doesnt give the slightest toss about NI's tribal little spats as long as you aren't blowing us up. And we much less care about the various distinctions between your millions of parties.

    DUP, UUP, SDLP, MSG, FSB, LOL whatever. Theres just nationalist and unionist which translates as Catholic and Protestant as far as most of us are concerned.
    And I think the whole blowing up things in the UK was from one side of the divide as far as I recall and as a hint it wasn't my side.

    I'll give you that one!!

    Yes, on that at least we can agree on this thread. Now there's a starting point. I've somehow let myself be carried onto this albatross of a thread I created again - must have been the NI stuff!

    The albatross you can feel weighing you down is believing in God.

    Did you really believe once this thread was created the atheists on here wouldnt wade in all guns blazing? Now that is delusional!

    No, of course I expected it. Still, it mostly keeps this type of religious discussion out of other threads and for that alone I am thankful.

    I'm sure you are. The last thing the religious want is widespread discussion as more and more people might start to wake up to the fact the whole thing is built on foundations of sand. And quicksand at that.

    No, as I explained in the OP it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads. I couldn't care less what is on here personally. If I was in fact that easily annoyed, would I even have created this thread as a rod for my own back? I think not.

    But if you're right why is it a rod for your own back?

    Anyway I'm sure we all enjoy the irony of 'it was about religious discussion leaching into other unrelated threads'.

    Creating the thread to hear a lot of atheist opinion and little else. We've paid our deposit. That's democracy. It's become like Hyde Park in here.

    Hardly our fault. You and your religious compadres are quite welcome to refute what we say.

    We're itching for an actual debate but it all seems to have gone quiet on your side. I find it rather bewildering given you hold all the aces: the vast majority of the globe agrees with you, the law protects you ahead of anyone else and, the ace of spades itself, you know 100% that you are right. If I had a hand stacked like that I'd be going all in on atheists and their delusions.

    I'm very happy to have a discussion. Why dont I throw a question out there for us to debate?

    Here we go: Why does an all powerful, all loving God choose to allow tiny little babies to die miserably from cancer before they have the chance to even grasp the concept of their own, let alone His, existence? It seems a little unfair but I'm sure there is a sound reason which you will easily be able to articulate?

    The floor is, once again, all yours to enlighten us.

    (PS - Nice Partridge reference by the way. 'Bald Brummies!')
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    "You're putting me off, please!"/"I know!" Sums you and I up quite well I think!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've rarely (if at all) seen a deeply pious person being able to rationally justify their beliefs. Eventually they end up leaving the building in frustration. It doesn't lend itself to logical argument and counterargument or intense introspective questioning. By its very nature, 'faith' is not verifiable.

    That doesn't necessarily make it surprising however. Perhaps it is 'understandable' to have faith. As a species, we have a capacity and curiosity for answers, and we certainly don't have all of them via science.

    It is therefore perhaps even rational to create 'theories' to answer these questions until science catches up.

    The big question then is what to do once science debunks the theories. A rational person would then have to admit that the theories are unsound. This is what a scientific and logical mind would do. An irrational person on the other hand would continue to believe in the flawed theory despite conclusive evidence to the contrary.

    With respect to cancer in babies and what not, I don't find that incompatible with 'faith' (as opposed to organized religion) per se. Faith does not assume that there is a 'knowing' or 'all powerful' god. Just that there is a strong possibility of something beyond our levels of comprehension and understanding. That doesn't have to be a conscious entity even. After all, if we believe in Newton's 3rd Law in the physical realm, it's quite possible that such a concept exists in the metaphysical one outside human comprehension.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    "You're putting me off, please!"/"I know!" Sums you and I up quite well I think!


    About the 50th time the baby cancer question has been point blank ignored.
    bondjames wrote: »
    With respect to cancer in babies and what not, I don't find that incompatible with 'faith' (as opposed to organized religion) per se. Faith does not assume that there is a 'knowing' or 'all powerful' god. Just that there is a strong possibility of something beyond our levels of comprehension and understanding. That doesn't have to be a conscious entity even. After all, if we believe in Newton's 3rd Law in the physical realm, it's quite possible that such a concept exists in the metaphysical one outside human comprehension.

    The 'heaven and earth' quote from Hamlet is once again applicable here. I dont think any atheist is arrogant enough to suggest there is nothing out there that we dont understand. The difference is we arent suggesting blind devotion to them.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron resigned due to their poor election result. The religious thing is just a red herring in my view. Quite disgraceful of him to use that as an excuse actually. That's my take on it anyway.

    I agree it was disgraceful. He basically draped himself in the cloak of the martyr and accused the British citizens to be intolerant towards his faith (the irony). But I do think his religious views were in conflict with the policies he and his party defended especially regarding gay rights and it hurt his credibility during the election, especially since he failed to convince voters of his sincerity. The Lib Dem did poorly for many reasons but this did play a role.

    He's clearly in the wrong party then, isn't he? Time he joined the dreaded Tories! Also time that he came clean on the real reasons behind his self-serving resignation, though that's hard for a Liberal I know, given some of their past membership.

    Or simply do an apostasy. He's either in the wrong party (but it's the Tories that allowed same sex marriages) or the wrong religion. Unless he thinks he disagrees with the God he believes in (unlikely but not impossible) in which case he should have the courage and honesty to say it.
  • Posts: 4,617
    "Just that there is a strong possibility of something beyond our levels of comprehension and understanding."

    In my book, a strong possibility is not a person of faith, they are agnostic
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron resigned due to their poor election result. The religious thing is just a red herring in my view. Quite disgraceful of him to use that as an excuse actually. That's my take on it anyway.

    I agree it was disgraceful. He basically draped himself in the cloak of the martyr and accused the British citizens to be intolerant towards his faith (the irony). But I do think his religious views were in conflict with the policies he and his party defended especially regarding gay rights and it hurt his credibility during the election, especially since he failed to convince voters of his sincerity. The Lib Dem did poorly for many reasons but this did play a role.

    He's clearly in the wrong party then, isn't he? Time he joined the dreaded Tories! Also time that he came clean on the real reasons behind his self-serving resignation, though that's hard for a Liberal I know, given some of their past membership.

    Or simply do an apostasy. He's either in the wrong party (but it's the Tories that allowed same sex marriages) or the wrong religion. Unless he thinks he disagrees with the God he believes in (unlikely but not impossible) in which case he should have the courage and honesty to say it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/26/tim-farron-liberal-democrats-interview-gods-plan-for-me

    Out of his tree.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    "Just that there is a strong possibility of something beyond our levels of comprehension and understanding."

    In my book, a strong possibility is not a person of faith, they are agnostic
    I disagree. Someone who believes there is a strong possibility of there being something (as opposed to someone) beyond our levels of comprehension and understanding which may influence the universe is not necessarily 'agnostic'. There is always the possibility that science will answer the question conclusively at some future date (beyond our lifetimes). They could be 'atheist' with these views because it doesn't presuppose the existence of a 'god' or 'knowing being'. They could also be 'of faith' (depending on the faith of course - perhaps not Abrahamic).

    Bottom line: We don't have the answers.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The Lib Dem leader Tim Farron resigned due to their poor election result. The religious thing is just a red herring in my view. Quite disgraceful of him to use that as an excuse actually. That's my take on it anyway.

    I agree it was disgraceful. He basically draped himself in the cloak of the martyr and accused the British citizens to be intolerant towards his faith (the irony). But I do think his religious views were in conflict with the policies he and his party defended especially regarding gay rights and it hurt his credibility during the election, especially since he failed to convince voters of his sincerity. The Lib Dem did poorly for many reasons but this did play a role.

    He's clearly in the wrong party then, isn't he? Time he joined the dreaded Tories! Also time that he came clean on the real reasons behind his self-serving resignation, though that's hard for a Liberal I know, given some of their past membership.

    Or simply do an apostasy. He's either in the wrong party (but it's the Tories that allowed same sex marriages) or the wrong religion. Unless he thinks he disagrees with the God he believes in (unlikely but not impossible) in which case he should have the courage and honesty to say it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/26/tim-farron-liberal-democrats-interview-gods-plan-for-me

    Out of his tree.

    Completely bonkers.
This discussion has been closed.