The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I think you're all being a bit harsh chaps:

    'the Pope's investigators have now launched their own probe, seeking evidence from the US.'


    They're taking it pretty seriously and I'm sure will get to the bottom of it just like FIFA's internal investigation committee has rooted out all corruption.

    This next statement is staggering and something all the appeasers and apologists over the last few pages (looking primarily at you I'm afraid @NicNac - even though I am sure your wife's school is perfectly nice and harmless) should go away and have a quiet think about:

    'The Vatican said recalling the priest was consistent with diplomatic practice of sovereign states.'


    The sheer arrogance and privilege of religion laid bare. They actually consider themselves a 'sovereign state'! No accountability to any voters and a vast empire built on conning the gullible and hoarding Nazi gold yet we are all supppsed to respect them and regard them as equals with the rest of the civilised world.

    It's also about time Italy started taking some flak for harbouring this criminal organisation within its borders.

  • Posts: 7,653
    Vatican City is a separate country, you would not be choosing for Italy invading a foreign country, would you now?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Although it flies in the face of " render unto Caesar " in the Bible, but hey
    wouldn't be the first time religion and hypocrisy were bedfellows. :-D
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited September 2017 Posts: 18,281
    The problem is that the Pope is Caesar nowadays.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    MV5BMjE3NTQ3NjA2NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzUyMDY4Ng@@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,666,1000_AL_.jpg
    or more like a Cardinal Richelieu. :-D
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The problem is that the Pope is Caesar nowadays.

    This thread clings to you like a disease, it seems. ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The problem is that the Pope is Caesar nowadays.

    This thread clings to you like a disease, it seems. ;)

    Yes, I really need to stop commenting on it now. I might chip in if I have anything worthwhile to add I suppose. We'll see.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The problem is that the Pope is Caesar nowadays.

    This thread clings to you like a disease, it seems. ;)

    Yes, I really need to stop commenting on it now. I might chip in if I have anything worthwhile to add I suppose. We'll see.

    Well, the key is to avoid taking comments personally, which I think has been the problem so far. We've lost about all the religious members at one point or another, and now it's just a pod of atheists who aren't deterred. We of course do have the advantage here, as we stand on more debatable grounds with more ammunition to use thanks to the long history of religious evidence to support our views.
  • Posts: 15,125
    When everything is said and done the Vatican helped sexual predators to face justice and that's criminal and immoral.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited September 2017 Posts: 24,184
    Atheism, as a philosophy, has for many aeons been silenced, belittled, mocked, treated as cancerous, as hostile, as immoral. And frankly, most of us haven't really cared all that much. Only intellectual wars were ever fought over the issue; not that many actual battle scenes have ever been recorded between the religious and the atheists. As people, Atheists have in most democracies always been somewhat tolerated because they blend in nicely, they usually partake in certain rituals to please others and they mostly undergo dogmatic teachings in school with, at most, silent contempt. The occasional troublemaker notwithstanding, atheists rarely raise their voice; they mostly go on with life, seeing things a lot clearer than their neighbours, rarely willing to upset the established order.

    Education, across-the-globe communication, the lure of youthful opposition to parental doctrine, ... have all allowed widespread atheism and religious indifference to bleed into our Western societies over the span of merely one or two generations. Seldom will the average atheist clash with dogmatic teachings in schools and elsewhere. Atheists simply stop going to church, stop reading the bible, stop discussing morality on a religious canvas. And life goes on. And things are well.

    The funny thing is that it doesn't really feel like some "victory" or "ultimate price"; instead it feels like common sense, like a natural evolution, the result of the mind growing brighter, smarter and wiser. Most atheists nowadays do not think of their intellectual freedom as something they must forcefully impose on the lives of the religious; they are at best bothered by the fact that the religious haven't done so themselves yet and that certain religious strongholds are still capable of surviving in a Western democracy despite tons of facts, scientific and otherwise, contradicting the very foundations of their so-called Faith.

    When a core group of religious loudmouths furthermore attacks atheism, it's relatively easy for the atheist to defend himself, having actual evidence on his side, except when the religious zealot starts producing his own brand of evidence from the realm of the supernatural, the bible and other places the atheist knows isn't real or meaningful.

    When a discussion goes like this...

    - There are no smurfs.
    - Of course there are. You can see them in the cartoon.
    - You know those cartoons were created by people who thought up those smurfs, right?
    - No, they were inspired to make those cartoons by the real smurfs.
    - Have YOU seen an actual "real smurf" then?
    - No, but I don't have to. I believe what the cartoon tells me. Besides, you can't prove they don't exist.

    ... that's when atheists get frustrated. It's like talking to little children. Best thing to do is to turn your back and walk away. You're not going to discuss rocket science with a retarded kid either. And overtime, the zealot is likely to have some offspring who will liberate itself from the dogmatic clutches of its parents and become one of us.

    The only way for the religious to maintain a strong position in our modern world, is by corrupting our educational system. Sadly, that's precisely what's going on right now in certain parts of the world, like certain Muslim countries and the USA.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Once again, I don't have a problem with people following a Religion. Just as long as I'm not
    Expected to follow their beliefs or they get special privileges in law over me.
  • Posts: 15,125
    New data shows that a majority of Scots are non religious: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41294688
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    Interesting evolution. Many of them probably still adhere to some faith but that will stop too overtime. Scotland also voted against Brexit. And they have Sean Connery.

    3/3 for the Scotsmen! :D
  • Posts: 15,125
    Even if many of them still believe in God why would priests from a Church nobody goes to except for weddings, christenings and funerals have power, even if it's sometimes only at local level?
  • Posts: 1,314
    The new findings that say more people are non religious than religious in this country is something that makes me incredibly proud to be British.

    You don't need religion to be a good person. You don't need religion for morale guidance. You don't need religion to form opinion.
    You just need to be a good person.

    Atheism doesn't tell you what to think about gay people, or what you should eat and drink. Or what position you should have sex in. Or which parts of your body are inappropriate to show in public.

    There are good and bad atheists. There are good and bad religious people. The difference is that bad atheists arrived at their bad decisions on their own, not on the whims or compulsion or instruction from a non existent deity. No atheists believe that their actions will be rewarded in another life.

    That's an incredibly rewarding freedom, gift and responsibility.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    @Matt007 gets the award for best post of the day from me! :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Matt007 wrote: »

    Atheism doesn't tell you what to think about gay people, or what you should eat and drink. Or what position you should have sex in. Or which parts of your body are inappropriate to show in public.

    There are still laws out there.
  • Posts: 1,314
    Yes but they aren't decided by the teachings of religion. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia and nothing unjust ever happens there right?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Religion=politics over there.
  • Posts: 1,314
    No. Religion = life over there. Fortunately we broke free of the shackles of the authority of the church some time not long after Oliver Cromwell in Britain

    It's called the Age of Enlightenment for a reason
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Matt007 wrote: »
    No. Religion = life over there.

    True, because otherwise they kill you. When religion governs every aspect of society, it is politics.
  • Posts: 15,125
    It would be about time UK politicians and authorities follow the trend established by its citizens. Religious lobbies have far more power than they should.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Its also partly down to the media. Often, after some kind of disaster, the local Vicar or an Archbishop crops up with the usual cliches and words of comfort (plus the obvious praying). These people have not earned the right to have this level of coverage and they give the impression they speak on behalf of the community when, in fact, they represent an ever decreasing minority.

    The other thing is that the media give them a free run so of a person of faith is discussusing an earth quake or storm, they never get questioned concerning why God created the diasaster in the first place.
  • Posts: 15,125
    And we know how much prayers work. If a priest wants to comfort believers after a disaster then fine. But beyond that their usefulness is rather limited and in any case should not entitle them to a special authority. Not in the Lords, not at local government level.

    Oh and on a side note isn't Songs of Praise a useless program?
  • Posts: 4,617
    The BBC is a great example of an institution that supports religion for no obvious reason. Songs of Praise , Desert Island Discs (you have to take a religious book!!), Thought for the Day on Radio 4 and I am forced to pay for it by owning a TV!!
  • Posts: 15,125
    And people say the BBC has a left leaning bias...
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Matt007 wrote: »
    The new findings that say more people are non religious than religious in this country is something that makes me incredibly proud to be British.

    You don't need religion to be a good person. You don't need religion for morale guidance. You don't need religion to form opinion.
    You just need to be a good person.

    Atheism doesn't tell you what to think about gay people, or what you should eat and drink. Or what position you should have sex in. Or which parts of your body are inappropriate to show in public.

    There are good and bad atheists. There are good and bad religious people. The difference is that bad atheists arrived at their bad decisions on their own, not on the whims or compulsion or instruction from a non existent deity. No atheists believe that their actions will be rewarded in another life.

    That's an incredibly rewarding freedom, gift and responsibility.

    9DOmt.png


    In all seriousness, I've only been reading comments in this thread rather than commenting myself but your post made me say something because I completely agree. When people tell me their religion is why there's good in the world I can't help but twitch a little bit.
    I don't consider myself an atheist but I'm not highly religious either. Many would probably call me agnostic but when it comes to religion I don't like to label myself anything. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said it best...

  • Posts: 1,314
    The bbc provides a balanced entertainment programme for believers and non believers. For those who derive comfort from worship there is songs of praise. For those of us who don't there's anything by David Attenborough!
  • Posts: 15,125
    Matt007 wrote: »
    The bbc provides a balanced entertainment programme for believers and non believers. For those who derive comfort from worship there is songs of praise. For those of us who don't there's anything by David Attenborough!

    They still give a tad too much importance to religion IMO. Well the C of E anyway. And to Ann Widdecombe, aka the UK's dumbest Christian.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think it's part of their licence agreement with the government. It has to produce so many hours of religious television every month.
This discussion has been closed.