The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Back on topic, I mean more directly on topic, people should take a (worried) look at Christian Voice and its leader Stephen Green. Islamists are not the only danger the West faces and Christian Voice is downright fascistic. A clear example of how dangerous and destructive religion can be.

    You can do anything while waving a cross it seems, and appear to be an alright person in the doing. Just gotta watch out if are one of the faithful who feel up kids, as pedophilia under the church has finally got enough eyes on it that priests have ruined it for everyone else. One must find a new hobby to pursue with their unnatural sexual repression.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Caricature_wulffmorgenthaler-2006-12-26.jpg
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Christians don't like letting African villagers prevent HIV by wearing condoms or priests being held to account for raping children

    Somehow this part never felt like anything religious but far more like genocide covered by the guise of religion. After all it happens in Africa where the white man has had little to say politically but economical is another question.

    You are giving faith a huge cop out. It has everything to do with religion. I don't think you can consider it genocide, certainly not if by that you mean ethnic cleansing: there are plenty of African Catholic priests and Africa might be one of the few places in the world where Catholicism can still thrive. It is pure, irresponsible, ignorant, superstitious madness. Religious madness. And let's not forget that the Catholic Church is against contraceptives everywhere in the world. I remember my grandmother telling us that a priest refused to give her absolution when she told him in confession that she was trying not to get pregnant using the so tame and unreliable calendar method. After having six children.

    You've got some good points, but for me religion is also about power and how to use it like keep people ignorant and believing in something better that they will only obtain by keeping the faith. Heck religion destroyed complete civilizations in the New Worlds where faith lead the way of greed an power.

    The Roman empire did not change their religion for a new one aka Christianity because of any faith reasons, it was a pure political choice based once again on the power principle.

    Religion is for me means of controlling people in though and deeds.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Religion is about power but in this instance not about White Man's power over Africa. The destructive stand of the Catholic Church is not motivated by racism.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Christians don't like letting African villagers prevent HIV by wearing condoms or priests being held to account for raping children

    Somehow this part never felt like anything religious but far more like genocide covered by the guise of religion. After all it happens in Africa where the white man has had little to say politically but economical is another question.

    You are giving faith a huge cop out. It has everything to do with religion. I don't think you can consider it genocide, certainly not if by that you mean ethnic cleansing: there are plenty of African Catholic priests and Africa might be one of the few places in the world where Catholicism can still thrive. It is pure, irresponsible, ignorant, superstitious madness. Religious madness. And let's not forget that the Catholic Church is against contraceptives everywhere in the world. I remember my grandmother telling us that a priest refused to give her absolution when she told him in confession that she was trying not to get pregnant using the so tame and unreliable calendar method. After having six children.

    You've got some good points, but for me religion is also about power and how to use it like keep people ignorant and believing in something better that they will only obtain by keeping the faith. Heck religion destroyed complete civilizations in the New Worlds where faith lead the way of greed an power.

    The Roman empire did not change their religion for a new one aka Christianity because of any faith reasons, it was a pure political choice based once again on the power principle.

    Religion is for me means of controlling people in though and deeds.

    That's definitely a part of it, @SaintMark. I've always viewed the bible as man's greatest psychological tool of control. A bunch of people were able to write a text that made the others of society get in line for fear of being sent to the mythical hell, a place the writers devised as being as traumatic as possible to control the populace's behavior and to increase their motivation to escape it. Not that this ever works as well as one would hope, but it's very easy to look at the bible and see what was intended by parts of it. You don't manufacture fake rules and tenets for people to follow and hold the power of a malevolent God over their heads if they don't live according to them unless you want to control what they do to a high degree.

    People seem to hold the bible accountable for creating morality (a bit of a joke, as far as I'm concerned) but you'll find far more beastly things in the tome than anything else. It's never a good thing to be "fearing" of your god, or scared of what he'll do when you misbehave. And even if you love this God, he still screws you over (look at poor Job or those of Noah's time who decided not to believe in him). Not the kind of creator I'd throw my lot in with, that's for sure.
  • Posts: 7,653
    To be honest the Old Testament in the bible is a large amount of ancient tales who were around before Christianity and like so many other aspects of other faiths were easily incorporated into the almighty Christianity who by now is doing very well for the last 1500 years.
    And still they are a dominant factor in large parts of the world including the US where Guns & Christianity are still very important in politics & running the nation.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    wumo59ccdf57cd1185.95830369.jpg
  • Posts: 15,125
    SaintMark wrote: »
    To be honest the Old Testament in the bible is a large amount of ancient tales who were around before Christianity and like so many other aspects of other faiths were easily incorporated into the almighty Christianity who by now is doing very well for the last 1500 years.
    And still they are a dominant factor in large parts of the world including the US where Guns & Christianity are still very important in politics & running the nation.

    The problem is the absence of distance between the tale and the theist: they think it's literally true!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    vHtvAJG.png
  • Posts: 15,125
    Can't see that one @Thunderfinger .
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Can't see that one @Thunderfinger .

    https://i.imgur.com/vHtvAJG.png

    How about this link?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Can't see that one @Thunderfinger .
    Oh, @Ludovico, haven't you learned anything from this thread? Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there. ;)
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Can't see that one @Thunderfinger .

    https://i.imgur.com/vHtvAJG.png

    How about this link?

    Yes thanks.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Yes true and now I can see the picture on the previous post. It's a miracle!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2017 Posts: 18,281
    ^ Divine intervention, you might say.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    ^ Divine intervention, you might say.
    I would think so, yes. If @Ludovico would've only prayed the image would've appeared all the sooner.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    ^ Divine intervention, you might say.
    I would think so, yes. If @Ludovico would've only prayed the image would've appeared all the sooner.

    Glad to know I've converted at least a few of you. My work here is done.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I've been praying a lot lately and although only one of my 35 nightly prayers have been answered I'm convinced that my one answered prayer wasn't a simple act of probability or coincidence, but was instead God's attempt to light a better path for me to follow. I'm also certain that his refusal to grant the other 34 wishes to me isn't a sign that he's not real or that he's ignoring my suffering, I instead think that by rejecting my prayers he is teaching me that he can't do everything for me and sometimes I must act to make my own successes and good fortunes independent of his holy example.

    Sure, there's a lot of poor people, cancer sufferers and kids born with defects out there in this crazy world but those are simply people who are victims of themselves and their circumstances, and not bad blueprints of God's creation plan. If they only took initiative in their lives and trusted him more they wouldn't have been so bad off.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Nohas+ark+im+a+christian+but+still+found+this_e7a8c5_3926345.jpg
  • Posts: 15,125
    However silly this cartoon is it's more realistic and plausible than the Biblical account of the Flood.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I read this pathetic drivel from former LibDem, leader Tim Farron: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/liberalism-eaten-itself-british-religious-liberty-christianity-tim-farron

    Boy there are so many things wrong with what he says and plain stupid and I have no time at the moment to dwell on them. Suffice to say right now that he should never, ever have been the party leader.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Liberalism and Christianity aren't really natural bedfellows anyhow, at least to my mind. Conservatism would be much more of a match, in fact.
  • Posts: 12,474
    Depends on what kind of Christian you are. I don’t like the idea that based on a religion (which usually have multiple sects) you should have a certain political leaning.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I read this pathetic drivel from former LibDem, leader Tim Farron: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/liberalism-eaten-itself-british-religious-liberty-christianity-tim-farron

    Boy there are so many things wrong with what he says and plain stupid and I have no time at the moment to dwell on them. Suffice to say right now that he should never, ever have been the party leader.

    'As a Christian, of course I think there are common values to all humankind. We see them in the commandments, and in one sense we don’t need to be told them because we know instinctively what is wrong and what is right – it’s one of the key proofs that God exists.'

    Christ.

    How is it possible that someone with such a preposterous grasp of logic can be elected to public office?

    I'm even embarrassed for him for that imbecilic statement.

    Go off and get a job presenting Songs of Praise mate because your 15 mins is long overdue.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Liberalism and Christianity aren't really natural bedfellows anyhow, at least to my mind. Conservatism would be much more of a match, in fact.

    That would depend. I'd say at least some of the teaching of Jesus has borderline socialist implications. He seemed to be a radical egalitarian, in fact. Even early Christian and monastic communities had collectivist economies.

    @TheWizardOfIce Painful isn't it? Imagine him PM. And the worst thing is, we now have a petty church lady instead.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I read this pathetic drivel from former LibDem, leader Tim Farron: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/liberalism-eaten-itself-british-religious-liberty-christianity-tim-farron

    Boy there are so many things wrong with what he says and plain stupid and I have no time at the moment to dwell on them. Suffice to say right now that he should never, ever have been the party leader.

    How unfortunate for the party.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2017 Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I read this pathetic drivel from former LibDem, leader Tim Farron: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/liberalism-eaten-itself-british-religious-liberty-christianity-tim-farron

    Boy there are so many things wrong with what he says and plain stupid and I have no time at the moment to dwell on them. Suffice to say right now that he should never, ever have been the party leader.

    'As a Christian, of course I think there are common values to all humankind. We see them in the commandments, and in one sense we don’t need to be told them because we know instinctively what is wrong and what is right – it’s one of the key proofs that God exists.'

    Christ.

    How is it possible that someone with such a preposterous grasp of logic can be elected to public office?

    I'm even embarrassed for him for that imbecilic statement.

    Go off and get a job presenting Songs of Praise mate because your 15 mins is long overdue.

    It's funny that by saying that we know what's right and wrong without being told, that chap was basically confirming that religious teaching isn't needed for someone to be an upstanding citizen. He certainly unconsciously also implied that the bible isn't the only means through which one can be good; what is good is inherently known and felt. Can we agree to drop the fairly tales now?


    Since Christmas is on the way, here's my first present for all my fellow atheists: some laughter and mild feelings of possible superiority. A hilarious advertisement in the states for a product called "The Wonder Bible." I won't say any more and let you experience the full effect blind:
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    Christ.

    How is it possible that someone with such a preposterous grasp of logic can be elected to public office?

    I'm even embarrassed for him for that imbecilic statement.

    Go off and get a job presenting Songs of Praise mate because your 15 mins is long overdue.

    Exactly.

    Putting such people in any position of authority means giving them a mandate to fold their hands, have five minutes of transcendental whatever, and base their next decisions, which could influence the lives of hundreds or even millions, on a confluence of vague, irrational thoughts or shadows thereof, lacking reason and pragmatic substance. But hey, who are we to judge? Americans still want their next president to say, "God bless America!" which to any sane person reads as, "Middle-Ages, here we come again!"
  • Posts: 15,125
    I just hope somebody writes a rebuttal for that rubbish. Tim Farron gets far too much of a free pass among progressists because he opposed Brexit and he's LibDem. What he said about secularism is a betrayal of everything he claimed to stand for.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Christ.

    How is it possible that someone with such a preposterous grasp of logic can be elected to public office?

    I'm even embarrassed for him for that imbecilic statement.

    Go off and get a job presenting Songs of Praise mate because your 15 mins is long overdue.

    Exactly.

    Putting such people in any position of authority means giving them a mandate to fold their hands, have five minutes of transcendental whatever, and base their next decisions, which could influence the lives of hundreds or even millions, on a confluence of vague, irrational thoughts or shadows thereof, lacking reason and pragmatic substance. But hey, who are we to judge? Americans still want their next president to say, "God bless America!" which to any sane person reads as, "Middle-Ages, here we come again!"

    How longer do we have to wait before 'faith' is regarded as the mental illness it clearly is and you are declared unfit for public office?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Christ.

    How is it possible that someone with such a preposterous grasp of logic can be elected to public office?

    I'm even embarrassed for him for that imbecilic statement.

    Go off and get a job presenting Songs of Praise mate because your 15 mins is long overdue.

    Exactly.

    Putting such people in any position of authority means giving them a mandate to fold their hands, have five minutes of transcendental whatever, and base their next decisions, which could influence the lives of hundreds or even millions, on a confluence of vague, irrational thoughts or shadows thereof, lacking reason and pragmatic substance. But hey, who are we to judge? Americans still want their next president to say, "God bless America!" which to any sane person reads as, "Middle-Ages, here we come again!"

    How longer do we have to wait before 'faith' is regarded as the mental illness it clearly is and you are declared unfit for public office?

    The sad thing is that human population percentages are heavily bent towards favoring religious belief, and in places like America faith is actually an advantage in being elected. Those with logic and rationality are a minority at this point, and faith shall only be viewed as a negative when the high percentage of those who subscribe to religious belief are swapped with those who favor science and rational thought. Unfortunately I don't think any of us will live to see that change, no matter how hard we're trying to make it so.
This discussion has been closed.