The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    I consider being baptised a crime my parents involuntarily made me a victim of. They were coerced into arranging baptism for me simply from tradition, one I myself shan't ever perpetuate. Given the fact that I was only a few weeks old at the time and couldn't quite raise my voice in the matter, I consider it all foul play and nothing else. And with my sinful ways in live, I doubt it mattered much.
  • Posts: 15,125
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I consider being baptised a crime my parents involuntarily made me a victim of. They were coerced into arranging baptism for me simply from tradition, one I myself shan't ever perpetuate. Given the fact that I was only a few weeks old at the time and couldn't quite raise my voice in the matter, I consider it all foul play and nothing else. And with my sinful ways in live, I doubt it mattered much.

    I've been baptised myself but my son is not. Neither is my wife as she comes from a secular atheist family. She's been asked by some acquaintances if our son is a godly child. She said no, then the acquaintances changed topic.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I appreciate your guidance on this, @TheWizardOfIce. Since we are unable to be brothers under the lord I am happy to count you as a brother in sin, and that counts more to me anyway as you know we have way more fun than the other side.

    Your tactic of sinning it up and apologizing at the end is exactly what I plan on doing with my life if it comes to that, and I've got it all planned out. I'm not a drinker but I'll for sure fill my life with constant utterances of "Goddammits" and "Jesus Christs," have a woman from every port if I get about to traveling and will not marry any of them, I'll make good friends with even more gays that I've got already and will additionally fight for sexual recreation and the dreaded sodomy that troubles the faithful so in the only way I deem fit: through oral presentation worldwide (extra emphasis on oral). On my deathbed I will really be testing God's lenience and forgiveness, as I'll use my last breaths before last rites to jerk it and experience some final pleasure before I'm sent on my way to the palace in the clouds with a cleared record free of all the debauchery committed. Should be an interesting life, if I play my cards right and God remains quite as foolish as he is now when I'm due for expiration.
  • Posts: 15,125
    patb wrote: »

    On the plus side this is a heterosexual scandal and even better: no sex crime has been committed and the relationship was consensual. On the other hand: what hypocrisy from the Church and a cop out from the father and his bosses.
  • Posts: 4,617
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/tim-farron-regrets-saying-gay-sex-not-sin

    "The former Lib Dem leader Tim Farron has said he regrets telling people he did not believe gay sex was a sin when he was forced to clarify his position during the election campaign.

    The MP said he had felt “isolated” and under pressure from his party to say gay sex was not sinful, suggesting he ended up misleading the public about his views."
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Gay is such a dumb expression.
  • DikkoHendersonDikkoHenderson Daniel Craig at the plastic surgery clinic- "Gently my friend Gently... THAT'S NOT BLOODY GENTLY!!"
    edited January 2018 Posts: 50
    I was raised in a Christian home and though it ended up not being for me personally... I believe a religious upbringing is very helpful (though not mandatory) for youths in teaching a sense of morals.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I wonder where we got our morals from before religion ? ;-)
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,617
    All religions think they are morally correct (with no basis) so, by definition, they will all claim to be useful in teaching morals to kids. Personally, I would rather my children developed their moral framework by working it out for themselves rather than any other source. For kids to get their morals from one book (like some Haynes manual) is a scary thing. You can never read enough books.
  • DikkoHendersonDikkoHenderson Daniel Craig at the plastic surgery clinic- "Gently my friend Gently... THAT'S NOT BLOODY GENTLY!!"
    Posts: 50
    I wonder where we got our morals from before religion ? ;-)

    I said not mandatory.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Sadly with all religions. It's all Mandatory, you
    Don't get the choice. You must simply Obey !
    No thinking for yourself. Just follow the other sheep.
  • Posts: 12,474
    Sadly with all religions. It's all Mandatory, you
    Don't get the choice. You must simply Obey !
    No thinking for yourself. Just follow the other sheep.

    Remember though, unless you are literally forced into any religion, you have the choice to be or not be in any religion. And to be honest, a good number of people with religious affiliations won’t be 100% traditional - at least in places such as the US. I think in many cases organized religions can be evil, corrupt institutions, but many times it’s a completely optional thing to enter one or leave. I won’t make any excuses for the groups that basically kidnap and have people held hostage within the religions. That’s just sick.

    I can understand a 100% negative view of religion if one doesn’t have any association or has had only bad associations in the past. There are a lot of bad things that have come from organized religion, but also many times people do think for themselves and do choose to follow them rather than always being abducted and forced to do it.
  • Posts: 4,617
    If it really was about thinking for themselves:

    Imagine a free , independent, adult thinker with no religious backgroud or pre-conceptions, going into a large library. They spend some time browsing the thousands of books but, eventually, one of the books they borrow is called "the Bible". They take it home, read it and after thinking about it for themselves, decide it's true.

    Organised religion knows that it can't survive simply by putting their book in the library. It relies on all sorts of complex tactics (and not so complex) to keep their fairy stories alive.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    If it really was about thinking for themselves:

    Imagine a free , independent, adult thinker with no religious backgroud or pre-conceptions, going into a large library. They spend some time browsing the thousands of books but, eventually, one of the books they borrow is called "the Bible". They take it home, read it and after thinking about it for themselves, decide it's true.

    Organised religion knows that it can't survive simply by putting their book in the library. It relies on all sorts of complex tactics (and not so complex) to keep their fairy stories alive.

    Excellent point.

    You don't have people knocking on your door or standing on street corners desperately trying to convince you to believe in the Big Bang theory do you?

    And why do all religions get you to cough up money? What's that got to do with believing in God and going to heaven?
  • Posts: 4,617
    The money thing is very clever. It's not just about easy ways of raising cash. It's another way of forming a connection between the individual and the religion. It's literally an investment and also, from that, an emotional investment. In the same way that we care more about companies that we have shares in compared to companies that we dont.

    And once we have invested in anything, it makes it harder to come out . At least with a comany, you can sell the shares but try asking any religion for your money back, People dont want to admit that their cash investment, time investment and emotional investment has been a waste so they stay with it and dont ask themselves the hard questions.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 15,125
    patb wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/tim-farron-regrets-saying-gay-sex-not-sin

    "The former Lib Dem leader Tim Farron has said he regrets telling people he did not believe gay sex was a sin when he was forced to clarify his position during the election campaign.

    The MP said he had felt “isolated” and under pressure from his party to say gay sex was not sinful, suggesting he ended up misleading the public about his views."

    Tiny Tim: a coward and a hypocrite to the end.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I wonder where we got our morals from before religion ? ;-)

    I said not mandatory.

    Surely you mean completely irrelevant.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/tim-farron-regrets-saying-gay-sex-not-sin

    "The former Lib Dem leader Tim Farron has said he regrets telling people he did not believe gay sex was a sin when he was forced to clarify his position during the election campaign.

    The MP said he had felt “isolated” and under pressure from his party to say gay sex was not sinful, suggesting he ended up misleading the public about his views."

    Tiny Tim: a coward and a hypocrite to the end.

    Didn't even have the bottle to stand up for his offensive beliefs.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/tim-farron-regrets-saying-gay-sex-not-sin

    "The former Lib Dem leader Tim Farron has said he regrets telling people he did not believe gay sex was a sin when he was forced to clarify his position during the election campaign.

    The MP said he had felt “isolated” and under pressure from his party to say gay sex was not sinful, suggesting he ended up misleading the public about his views."

    Tiny Tim: a coward and a hypocrite to the end.

    Didn't even have the bottle to stand up for his offensive beliefs.

    And back pedaled when he had nothing left to lose politically. Oh and he did so as a self righteous, whiney little b*tch.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I have to laugh he regards Gay sex as a sin
    But is happy to tell lies ? I thought telling
    Lies was one of the big ten rules for Christians ? So in fact an even bigger sin :-D
  • Posts: 15,125
    I have to laugh he regards Gay sex as a sin
    But is happy to tell lies ? I thought telling
    Lies was one of the big ten rules for Christians ? So in fact an even bigger sin :-D

    For the greater good: so he can get liberal votes to then betray their trust by going against his own voters stand for.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Typical Lib Dem say anything to get elected then do the opposite. Like Clegg and Student fees.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Typical Lib Dem say anything to get elected then do the opposite. Like Clegg and Student fees.

    Except for Tim Farron he had no excuse of having to compromise. His voters and his party had a specific opinion on this question and he failed to meet their principle. He'd rather please his hypothetical God than defend the happiness, freedom and dignity of real human beings.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    patb wrote: »
    The money thing is very clever. It's not just about easy ways of raising cash. It's another way of forming a connection between the individual and the religion. It's literally an investment and also, from that, an emotional investment. In the same way that we care more about companies that we have shares in compared to companies that we dont.

    And once we have invested in anything, it makes it harder to come out . At least with a comany, you can sell the shares but try asking any religion for your money back, People dont want to admit that their cash investment, time investment and emotional investment has been a waste so they stay with it and dont ask themselves the hard questions.
    Let us not forget the history that churches have with indulgences that sinful worshippers could pay a monetary sum for. And they say faith is priceless!
  • Posts: 2,491
    "Or none"

    I don't see how this can make the thread civil, adding people of the opposite sites is bound to blow up eventually.

    It's like saying "MI6 forums - For James Bond fans - and people that wish 007 never existed!" it would be a cesspool :D
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    dragonsky wrote: »
    "Or none"

    I don't see how this can make the thread civil, adding people of the opposite sites is bound to blow up eventually.

    It's like saying "MI6 forums - For James Bond fans - and people that wish 007 never existed!" it would be a cesspool :D
    Doesn't really make sense to have a religion thread without including the atheist side though, does it? Considering that it is the side that weighs evidence to make its claims, while only faith supplies the hopes and dreams of the other side and little else.

    The Bond example doesn't really work, because we're already discussing a known fictional character, while only one side here is aware of the fictional nature of the religious articles that these faiths are based off of. ;)

    These conversations can still be civil, but if one must be honest sometimes that honesty pricks a little. "Gotta be cruel to be kind," as the saying goes.
  • Posts: 15,125
    dragonsky wrote: »
    "Or none"

    I don't see how this can make the thread civil, adding people of the opposite sites is bound to blow up eventually.

    It's like saying "MI6 forums - For James Bond fans - and people that wish 007 never existed!" it would be a cesspool :D
    Doesn't really make sense to have a religion thread without including the atheist side though, does it? Considering that it is the side that weighs evidence to make its claims, while only faith supplies the hopes and dreams of the other side and little else.

    The Bond example doesn't really work, because we're already discussing a known fictional character, while only one side here is aware of the fictional nature of the religious articles that these faiths are based off of. ;)

    These conversations can still be civil, but if one must be honest sometimes that honesty pricks a little. "Gotta be cruel to be kind," as the saying goes.

    I'd add to that that making it a thread for people of different faiths it could easily derail. I'd also add that this whole forum is made for and by James Bond fans, but should someone who hates Bond register and post why Bond sucks, I'd listen to his arguments if he has any and is not trolling.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Well, history tells us how well people of different faiths get on. The idea that things get less civil when atheists join the conversation shows a certain lack of historical perspective IMHO
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes all these religious wars are all the fault of atheists, although all the killing and torture was very civil :-D
This discussion has been closed.