The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    dragonsky wrote: »
    "Or none"

    I don't see how this can make the thread civil, adding people of the opposite sites is bound to blow up eventually.

    It's like saying "MI6 forums - For James Bond fans - and people that wish 007 never existed!" it would be a cesspool :D
    Doesn't really make sense to have a religion thread without including the atheist side though, does it? Considering that it is the side that weighs evidence to make its claims, while only faith supplies the hopes and dreams of the other side and little else.

    The Bond example doesn't really work, because we're already discussing a known fictional character, while only one side here is aware of the fictional nature of the religious articles that these faiths are based off of. ;)

    These conversations can still be civil, but if one must be honest sometimes that honesty pricks a little. "Gotta be cruel to be kind," as the saying goes.

    I'd add to that that making it a thread for people of different faiths it could easily derail. I'd also add that this whole forum is made for and by James Bond fans, but should someone who hates Bond register and post why Bond sucks, I'd listen to his arguments if he has any and is not trolling.

    And of course the equivalent would be someone who comes on here and says 'James Bond is shit' but refuses to watch any of the films, read any of the books or even play GE64.

    Would rightfully be labelled a laughing stock, as should the religious, but of course we're not allowed to do that; the law states we have to respect them.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    dragonsky wrote: »
    "Or none"

    I don't see how this can make the thread civil, adding people of the opposite sites is bound to blow up eventually.

    It's like saying "MI6 forums - For James Bond fans - and people that wish 007 never existed!" it would be a cesspool :D
    Doesn't really make sense to have a religion thread without including the atheist side though, does it? Considering that it is the side that weighs evidence to make its claims, while only faith supplies the hopes and dreams of the other side and little else.

    The Bond example doesn't really work, because we're already discussing a known fictional character, while only one side here is aware of the fictional nature of the religious articles that these faiths are based off of. ;)

    These conversations can still be civil, but if one must be honest sometimes that honesty pricks a little. "Gotta be cruel to be kind," as the saying goes.

    I'd add to that that making it a thread for people of different faiths it could easily derail. I'd also add that this whole forum is made for and by James Bond fans, but should someone who hates Bond register and post why Bond sucks, I'd listen to his arguments if he has any and is not trolling.

    And of course the equivalent would be someone who comes on here and says 'James Bond is shit' but refuses to watch any of the films, read any of the books or even play GE64.

    Would rightfully be labelled a laughing stock, as should the religious, but of course we're not allowed to do that; the law states we have to respect them.

    An argument from ignorance yes. Theists often use this, or arguments from special knowledge.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005

    I believe in a reasonable rate of return.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!

    Unicorns = daft, religion = sensible?

    Go figure.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    5bcd7ccfd850bb3f99ee3ac1f8fea208e9d5df93c109489fa75c36d953486622.jpg
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    edited January 2018 Posts: 2,005
    @Thunderfinger

    That's a good one. If wrong country.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!

    Unicorns = daft, religion = sensible?

    Go figure.

    If you like, though there is more evidence for the Christian religion than there is for unicorns.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :-D It's certainly something when Christians use a lack of evidence to disprove Unicorns,
    as evidence of their God ;-)
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!

    Unicorns = daft, religion = sensible?

    Go figure.

    If you like, though there is more evidence for the Christian religion than there is for unicorns.

    Well yes as in Christian religion exists. In many denominations in fact. But there's no evidence for the most fundamental claims of Christianity.
  • Posts: 12,474
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!

    Unicorns = daft, religion = sensible?

    Go figure.

    If you like, though there is more evidence for the Christian religion than there is for unicorns.

    I'd be very grateful if you could furnish me with it then.

    There is zero for both but at least with unicorns there are such creatures as horses, deer with antlers and narwhals to suggest that it's not exactly beyond the realms of possibility that they could have once existed.

    With God there's nothing except a 2000 year old parchment that collapses under the most cursory logical analysis.

    I'd certainly have a bit more respect for someone who said they believed unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster and Yeti once existed as similar creatures have roamed the earth so it's perfectly possible.
    :-D It's certainly something when Christians use a lack of evidence to disprove Unicorns,
    as evidence of their God ;-)

    Quite remarkable that Draggers happy to scoff at the likelihood of unicorns despite there being as much evidence as there is for his Lord and Saviour - i.e. sod all.
  • Posts: 4,617
    And if there was no evidence, nobody would join.......hold on?
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!

    Unicorns = daft, religion = sensible?

    Go figure.

    If you like, though there is more evidence for the Christian religion than there is for unicorns.

    I'd be very grateful if you could furnish me with it then.

    There is zero for both but at least with unicorns there are such creatures as horses, deer with antlers and narwhals to suggest that it's not exactly beyond the realms of possibility that they could have once existed.

    With God there's nothing except a 2000 year old parchment that collapses under the most cursory logical analysis.

    I'd certainly have a bit more respect for someone who said they believed unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster and Yeti once existed as similar creatures have roamed the earth so it's perfectly possible.
    :-D It's certainly something when Christians use a lack of evidence to disprove Unicorns,
    as evidence of their God ;-)

    Quite remarkable that Draggers happy to scoff at the likelihood of unicorns despite there being as much evidence as there is for his Lord and Saviour - i.e. sod all.

    You could also create unicorns from genetic manipulation, hypothetically. And there might be such creatures on another planet. Unlikely but still more plausible than God.

    And incidentally unicorns are mentioned in the Bible.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.

    Well then by default you must also believe in unicorns, UFOs, the tooth fairy, ghosts, Bigfoot etc etc.

    Once you've taken that leap of sanity to ignore logic and reason then you've crossed a line and there's no way back. You can't just pick and choose what ludicrous thing you believe without evidence surely?

    'To believe in those things without any evidence is just silly but to believe in my thing without evidence makes perfect sense.'

    Sorry I'm not having that.

    In fact I'd go further. Let everyone be religious if they want but if they arrive at an NHS hospital they get turned away with a leaflet that just says 'pray and you'll get better.' Obviously if they are willing to pay and go private fine but it would cut overheads in the NHS if we weren't treating those who only think science has the answers when their life is on the line. Could have a special religious ambulance service as well:

    'Been in a car crash and your legs are mangled and you're going into cardiac arrest? Religious Ambulances Ltd will rush you from the scene and deposit you on the steps of the nearest church/mosque/synagogue so that you can receive the very best in religious treatment.'


    Would both save the NHS money and serve to slowly reduce the numbers of religionutters in our midst as they would die off faster.

    Also for those worried about climate change we can get the religious out of planes and cars too:

    'Think God is better than science? Then welcome to Religious Airways Ltd. Our state of the art prayer fuelled planes don't rely on anything so crude as thrust or knowledge of aeronautics we just all sit on a pew and pray that we will levitate and move to our destination. Without the constraints of physics holding us back we can offer our newest route LHR - Sydney in 1 second.*

    *We accept no liability if you do not move an inch and end up losing your hotel booking and car hire.


    The NHS and climate change solved at a stroke simply by the religious being true to their 'beliefs'. I don't know how I do it; I really should be prime minister.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Let us all pray that the Wizard doesn t become PM. It might work.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.

    I will ask again a question I asked before: what's the difference between an existing God and an inexistant God if the only way you determine said existence is by faith alone?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.

    I will ask again a question I asked before: what's the difference between an existing God and an inexistant God if the only way you determine said existence is by faith alone?

    Well there is the Bible, for a start. Biblical archaeology has proved a lot of things too. There are many books on the subject that are well worth reading.

    So, it's not just a case of blind faith alone. The Bible is a history book in part too. It's a whole series of books collected together, in fact. It's very easy to forget that at times.There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.

    I will ask again a question I asked before: what's the difference between an existing God and an inexistant God if the only way you determine said existence is by faith alone?

    Well there is the Bible, for a start. Biblical archaeology has proved a lot of things too. There are many books on the subject that are well worth reading.

    So, it's not just a case of blind faith alone. The Bible is a history book in part too. It's a whole series of books collected together, in fact. It's very easy to forget that at times.There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct.

    In you own time. We're all on tenterhooks.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.

    I will ask again a question I asked before: what's the difference between an existing God and an inexistant God if the only way you determine said existence is by faith alone?

    Well there is the Bible, for a start. Biblical archaeology has proved a lot of things too. There are many books on the subject that are well worth reading.

    So, it's not just a case of blind faith alone. The Bible is a history book in part too. It's a whole series of books collected together, in fact. It's very easy to forget that at times.There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct.

    The Bible is no evidence of anything in itself and many claims it makes has been debunked, by the archeological evidence you seem so keen about. From the Genesis to the Flood, the Census, the Exodus, etc.

    And even if there was some events in the Bible that had been proven as historical (very little have, if any), that would say nothing of the divine claims the book makes.

    And furthermore you tacitly admit in your comment that faith in itself cannot justify a belief.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Those stories could be from another world.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Those stories could be from another world.

    More likely from another time.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Those stories could be from another world.

    More likely from another time.

    Around the same time we thought the earth was flat or the sun could be made to shine by offering sacrifices.

    The difference is that many of us have evolved since.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Those stories could be from another world.

    More likely from another time.

    Written in a time when historical accuracy was not a concern.
  • Posts: 4,617
    "There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct." I'd like to see that evidence. So would evey non-Christian
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Unicorns flying UFOs from the dark side of the moon. Now that's something to believe in ;-)

    Don't give Draggers an idea for another thread about irrational beliefs!!

    Oh, there's another one on the way, but it's not quite that daft!

    Unicorns = daft, religion = sensible?

    Go figure.

    If you like, though there is more evidence for the Christian religion than there is for unicorns.

    I'd be very grateful if you could furnish me with it then.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    The point isn’t evidence, it’s about having faith. If there was strong evidence to prove the religion, everyone would join.

    Well, yes, that is what it boils down to.

    I will ask again a question I asked before: what's the difference between an existing God and an inexistant God if the only way you determine said existence is by faith alone?

    Well there is the Bible, for a start. Biblical archaeology has proved a lot of things too. There are many books on the subject that are well worth reading.

    So, it's not just a case of blind faith alone. The Bible is a history book in part too. It's a whole series of books collected together, in fact. It's very easy to forget that at times.There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct.

    In you own time. We're all on tenterhooks.
    patb wrote: »
    "There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct." I'd like to see that evidence. So would evey non-Christian

    Any chance of you doing an Elliot Carver Draggers and giving the people what they want? It would certainly end all the religious bloodshed and terrorism if you could be so kind as to reveal your earth shattering 'evidence'.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I think the Church of England may also want to see it as they have not included it in any of their courses that I have attended. It would save everyone considerable time.
This discussion has been closed.