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The Catholic Church too. Even their historians don't consider say the story of the Nativity as told in the Bible as factual.
But hang on. Draggers just said:
So either the Bible is a historical record of fact or stuff like the Garden of Eden are the burning bush are allegories and shouldn't be taken literally. Which is it?
I'm a little confused.
I'm not a Catholic so I don't follow their revisionist views. Either you take the whole book, or you leave it altogether. That's my view. You can't pick and choose which bits to believe to follow, but many do of course.
The Catholic Church (for the followers that's another story) has done so for one reason: they have been proven wrong and their back was against the wall. You can take the whole book as true, but the whole book has been factually wrong, starting with Genesis. You're placing your beliefs against proven facts.
So which way do you lean? Your prevarication used to be a convincing act Draggers. It's wearing a little thin now. (Cocks Walther) Make your choice.
Do you read newspapers the same way?
I don't believe that I did prevaricate however.
So from your above comments, and as a believer, you are happy to go on record and state you believe a book that contains such tales as a talking snake, a bloke living inside a whale for 3 days, people routinely rising from the dead and a man that lives for 936 years is true?
Yes.
But you think you are sane?
I'll leave that up to you to decide. It says that all things are possible with God.
Jesus (no pun intended).
so we come back to a humble request for proof that this particualr God exists.
When are we as a species going to wake up?
Not all Christians are incapable of it. My late father always said that it was important to doubt things too, but then he was called Thomas and we all know about his namesake in the Bible I am sure.
Start with the talking snake.
I think that bears repetition - A. Talking. F**king. Snake!! =)) =)) =))
How are we even having a serious debate about this?
I see you are a Partridge fan, like myself.
No I'd say let him choose whichever he wants to make things easy. Could be the Virgin birth, the Flood, the Exodus, the Census, the existence of Barabbas... Anything.
Yeah but then he'd just choose something credible like a preacher called Jesus existing in Judea around 30AD.
That's a bit dull for me. I want to see talking snakes please.
It's quite ridiculous I'm sure you'll agree?
Oh. I kind of always assumed they would speak English.
Even Jesus's existence is debatable and not absolutely proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Every single one of the stories about him are at best questionable and many of them we can safely say they were fabricated.
Well you say that but:
Good enough for me.
I think that mindset is really damaging. The Bible, the Quran (I know you won't like me equating them but I'm sorry, there's no difference; Islam might be the big bad at the moment but plenty of atrocities have been commited by Christians), all those texts were written thousands of years ago. I'm not as anti religion on here as some because I know it offers a lot of people comfort and I wouldn't want to begrudge them that but following thousands of years old teachings to the letter is only going to end in disaster. Even ignoring the stuff that's been proven scientifically wrong, there's the moral side of it. Put to death the gays kill all the heretics etc.
If you're going to follow the bible or any equivalent then don't take it all so literally. Embrace the positive messages, write off the more troubling passages as being very outdated, and recognise that it's the religious who have to change and reconcile their views/practises to fit in with society rather than the other way round.
That's what my adoptive mum does and I think she's a shining example of how all religious people should conduct themselves. Generally keeps it to herself and takes it as more metaphorical. Likes to believe that there's a higher power and that there's an afterlife but doesn't let that stop her living her life the best she can (I mean if you pray for forgiveness on your deathbed you're sweet no matter what right?), goes to Church around Christmas and Easter time because she thinks it's a nice tradition and brings her a bit of happiness, but realises the bible was written in a very different, unenlightened world and doesn't let it dictate every aspect of her life.
You can't have your cake and eat it. Something is either true or false. We owe it to ourselves to have the self respect to work things out. Not turn a blind eye to the talking snake, the wine trick etc etc. We dont give science that luxury. There is no reason why religious text should get off so lightly.
Christmas and Easter are like Halloween to me. Happy to have the extra food in the knowledge that its all fiction.