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  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,617
    So who decides if it is OK? if it's not OK, why is it in the Bible in the first place?

    there seems to be a sliding scale that simply aligns the Bible with what is acceptable within modern, Western, liberal culture and just cancels out the stuff which is not acceptable. For example, plenty of christians had no problem with slavery at the peak of the slave trade. If the Bible is meant to be a moral guide, then it's a moral guide. If our developing culture/society is out moral guide, then that's our moral guide.

    Its the same with the issue of gay sex. Either its OK or it's not and the Christian church gets itself into a real mess as society moves forward (thank goodness).

    If God thought it was OK to send the 10 commandments, why does he not clarify anything? Too busy with other planets? (its a big universe after all - around 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets that we know of ) Did they all get one book and 10 bits of stone?

    How the hell can you get the whole moral framework of mankind into one book and 10 bits of stone? (with 10 rules, he could have used the back of the stone tablets and got 20 in).

    It's so childish, just embarrassing. My son of 12 could come up with a better moral handbook? A donkey !! FFS If you are going to limit yourself to ten rules, how the hell does a donkey get into the top ten??!! Was rape at 11 so didn't make it, ?. This is God we talking about, not some intern on their first day. I expect perfection, nothing less. Not some BS about what you can do with a donkey.

    Adults believe this stuff...adults!!....human adults!!...just take a few seconds to take that in.



  • Posts: 15,125
    Oh but I agree and I would go further: in a theological debate about slavery held by two Christians, where they use the Bible as guidance, the abolitionist would lose.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    So who decides if it is OK? if it's not OK, why is it in the Bible in the first place?

    there seems to be a sliding scale that simply aligns the Bible with what is acceptable within modern, Western, liberal culture and just cancels out the stuff which is not acceptable. For example, plenty of christians had no problem with slavery at the peak of the slave trade. If the Bible is meant to be a moral guide, then it's a moral guide. If our developing culture/society is out moral guide, then that's our moral guide.

    Its the same with the issue of gay sex. Either its OK or it's not and the Christian church gets itself into a real mess as society moves forward (thank goodness).

    If God thought it was OK to send the 10 commandments, why does he not clarify anything? Too busy with other planets? (its a big universe after all - around 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets that we know of ) Did they all get one book and 10 bits of stone?

    How the hell can you get the whole moral framework of mankind into one book and 10 bits of stone? (with 10 rules, he could have used the back of the stone tablets and got 20 in).

    It's so childish, just embarrassing. My son of 12 could come up with a better moral handbook? A donkey !! FFS If you are going to limit yourself to ten rules, how the hell does a donkey get into the top ten??!! Was rape at 11 so didn't make it, ?. This is God we talking about, not some intern on their first day. I expect perfection, nothing less. Not some BS about what you can do with a donkey.

    Adults believe this stuff...adults!!....human adults!!...just take a few seconds to take that in.


    Lovely stuff. I did enjoy that.

    It is certainly odd that God deems looking over your neighbour's garden fence and thinking 'He's got a better donkey than me. I really want it' is deemed more of a crime than noncing kids up.

    But then we can't see the bigger picture mate. Maybe it's the same ten rules for the whole universe and on every other planet coveting things is a major problem that he has to clamp down on.

    Or perhaps given the antipathy to gay sex perhaps 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass' is meant to be taken literally?
  • Posts: 4,617
    Perhaps if "thou shalt not sexually abuse children" had made it into the top ten (I wonder where it was on the draft list?), it would have clarified things a little within the Catholic church. They seem a little confused as to just how bad it is.

    I cant remember reading any stories re priests admiring donkeys so that tablet clearly had some impact.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    Perhaps if "thou shalt not sexually abuse children" had made it into the top ten (I wonder where it was on the draft list?), it would have clarified things a little within the Catholic church. They seem a little confused as to just how bad it is.

    I cant remember reading any stories re priests admiring donkeys so that tablet clearly had some impact.

    Good point. It shows the commandments on stone tablets system works in restraining the clergy. I actually feel sorry for them being unfairly maligned when according to the tablets they're doing nothing wrong. If you want to sue someone abuse victims go to the top as it's God's slackness for missing it off the list to blame for all this.

    You wonder why he doesn't maybe - and I'm really thinking outside the box here so bear with me - solve it all by sending another tablet down that says 'Don't fiddle with kids' and 'Being gay is fine'?

    Sounds easy to us I guess but granite tablets don't come cheap (you should've seen the price of my gran's headstone) and the bloke has overheads like everyone else, what with the weak pound etc.

    Perhaps he was going to do it but hired Carillion for the job so he's not seeing any of that money again.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I like the idea of God bringing in sub-contrators. Makes sense considering the size of the universe. I suppose bring in hios son counts:

    "God and Son - a family run business"
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    I like the idea of God bringing in sub-contrators. Makes sense considering the size of the universe. I suppose bring in hios son counts:

    "God and Son - a family run business"

    Inevitable they had to start farming some of it out to contractors I'm afraid. They couldn't just keep running it all from the front room of their semi.

    And obviously standards start to slip - hence the omission of 'Don't put your dick inside kids' on the 10 Commandments. God was livid by all accounts but they'd already sent them out and his hands were tied. That's what you get when you hire cowboys.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    The one religion that will destroy us in the end is neoliberalism ;)
  • patb wrote: »
    Who decides which bits are true and which bit's should not be taken literally? And why should some parts not be taken literally? Once you go down that route, the whole thing is undermined IMHO. Perhaps God should not be taken literally? Perhaps Jesus is not literally God's son? Perhaps Mary was not literally a virgin? Perhaps there literally is no heaven? Perhaps the whole thing is fiction?

    You can't have your cake and eat it. Something is either true or false. We owe it to ourselves to have the self respect to work things out. Not turn a blind eye to the talking snake, the wine trick etc etc. We dont give science that luxury. There is no reason why religious text should get off so lightly.

    Christmas and Easter are like Halloween to me. Happy to have the extra food in the knowledge that its all fiction.

    I don't disagree with any of what you're saying to be honest, I don't fully understand which bits she believes in and which not myself, but I love the woman and following the bits she picks and chooses makes her happy so I'm not going to start having a go at her for it. I think for her it's just a case of liking the positive messages and the idea that there's an afterlife and something watching over us.

    Was just making a point that if you're going to follow the bible (key word being if), I think the only way you should do it is in a revisionist sort of way. I think anyone with a basic sense of human decency can figure out which bits to follow and which bits not from a moral perspective (love thy neighbour turn the other cheek good, stone the adulterers kill all the infidels bad, etc).
  • Posts: 15,125
    Let's not forget that while the Decalogue is against working on the Sabbath, making graven images, it says nothing against slavery.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    Who decides which bits are true and which bit's should not be taken literally? And why should some parts not be taken literally? Once you go down that route, the whole thing is undermined IMHO. Perhaps God should not be taken literally? Perhaps Jesus is not literally God's son? Perhaps Mary was not literally a virgin? Perhaps there literally is no heaven? Perhaps the whole thing is fiction?

    You can't have your cake and eat it. Something is either true or false. We owe it to ourselves to have the self respect to work things out. Not turn a blind eye to the talking snake, the wine trick etc etc. We dont give science that luxury. There is no reason why religious text should get off so lightly.

    Christmas and Easter are like Halloween to me. Happy to have the extra food in the knowledge that its all fiction.

    I don't disagree with any of what you're saying to be honest, I don't fully understand which bits she believes in and which not myself, but I love the woman and following the bits she picks and chooses makes her happy so I'm not going to start having a go at her for it. I think for her it's just a case of liking the positive messages and the idea that there's an afterlife and something watching over us.

    Was just making a point that if you're going to follow the bible (key word being if), I think the only way you should do it is in a revisionist sort of way. I think anyone with a basic sense of human decency can figure out which bits to follow and which bits not from a moral perspective (love thy neighbour turn the other cheek good, stone the adulterers kill all the infidels bad, etc).

    What you say would be all well and good if people just followed it as a spiritual guide to get them through life (although personally I cant think of many worse books to live your life by than the bible) but, as evidenced here, there really are people out there who believe in talking snakes. And these people are allowed to vote, hold office and sit with their finger on the button.

    That is something that should petrify every person on the planet.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117

    This one speaking Portuguese. What's the point of Brexit if there are no talking snakes that speak English?

    This country.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281

    This one speaking Portuguese. What's the point of Brexit if there are no talking snakes that speak English?

    This country.

    This thread.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Here you go
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Do you really expect God and Man to be able to do the same things? It's God after all. If we accept that he created snakes presumably he could also make them speak. I know that sounds ridiculous to many people (it's hard for me to believe too), but there it is.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Here you go

    Finally. I thought all these foreign speaking ones were a bit far fetched but that one is far more credible.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Do you really expect God and Man to be able to do the same things? It's God after all. If we accept that he created snakes presumably he could also make them speak. I know that sounds ridiculous to many people (it's hard for me to believe too), but there it is.

    Come on Draggers you know in your heart its ridiculous. Be bold and step off the cliff and join us in here - the water's lovely and it's extremely refreshing to wash yourself clean of all this lunacy. Trust me as one who was brought up to believe this drivel.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Do you really expect God and Man to be able to do the same things? It's God after all. If we accept that he created snakes presumably he could also make them speak. I know that sounds ridiculous to many people (it's hard for me to believe too), but there it is.

    A lot of crazy claims are perfectly plausible for God if he exists. The problems are the following: 1)there's no proof that God exists, 2)there's no proof that these crazy claims are remotely true and 3)there's actually proof that the Genesis and many of the alleged events where the claims occurred did not happen.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,617
    By seeking to justify the talking snake by saying that it was Gods work: it's just replacing one remarkable claim (with no evidence) with another.

    Plus if God gets credit for the talking snake then he must also get credit for toddle cancer.

    Again, a luxury that science does not have.
  • Posts: 15,125
    So... Any evidence for any of the extraordinary biblical claims?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    So... Any evidence for any of the extraordinary biblical claims?

    Well after this statement I've been waiting with baited breath:
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct.
    But for some reason he's been strangely reticent to share with us.

    But don't be dismayed folks, the evidence is out there if you search for it:



    If you can have dogs that growl some sounds that could be said to loosely correspond to the word 'sausages' then why not a snake that can clearly articulate 'You will not certainly die. For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'

    This evidence plus the convincing footage provided by @Thunderfinger makes me think there might be something in all this.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I'd settle with any sort of archeological evidence that's been claimed to exist confirming any event in the Bible.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,617
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/16/british-tourist-missing-in-israel-may-have-jerusalem-syndrome

    I feel sorry for the guy but it raises a wider issue: the author refers to a "syndrome","psychiatric condition" and "sufferers" and "referral to a clinic".

    Where is the line drawn between this poor chap and mainstream religious believers whose interpretations of life are no more remarkable and illogical? It seems rather patronising to label this guy as in need of mental healthcare compared to others whose behavior is equally defined by their God.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »

    Given there's no obvious link to religion in that clip are we to assume this means you are doing a Duncan Bannatyne and are 'out' from here on in?

    Seems a strange reaction when all people have asked for is for you to demonstrate this 'evidence' you speak of.

    As a trained lawyer would you say that taking such a position is conducive to winning an argument?

    Disappointing old son.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »

    Given there's no obvious link to religion in that clip are we to assume this means you are doing a Duncan Bannatyne and are 'out' from here on in?

    Seems a strange reaction when all people have asked for is for you to demonstrate this 'evidence' you speak of.

    As a trained lawyer would you say that taking such a position is conducive to winning an argument?

    Disappointing old son.

    Just how I feel today. Must try better. I'll be back.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I've said for years I'd immediately become religious if someone could prove God exists, but strangely, nobody ever takes me up on the offer.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »

    Given there's no obvious link to religion in that clip are we to assume this means you are doing a Duncan Bannatyne and are 'out' from here on in?

    Seems a strange reaction when all people have asked for is for you to demonstrate this 'evidence' you speak of.

    As a trained lawyer would you say that taking such a position is conducive to winning an argument?

    Disappointing old son.

    Just how I feel today. Must try better. I'll be back.

    At least you've got the bottle to try and fight. The odds are overwhelmingly against you but there aren't many others piping up in defence of God on here so, however tragically misguided you might be, a modicum of respect for that.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've said for years I'd immediately become religious if someone could prove God exists, but strangely, nobody ever takes me up on the offer.

    I think everyone would wouldn't they?

    Is there anything else in the world that get such a free pass when making such outlandish claims? If you are marketing a skin cream that you claim gets rid of wrinkles or a miracle diet that will give you a body like Charles Atlas in 2 weeks I think you might have found yourself in court by now for lying to people and writing cheques your product can't actually cash but no such problem with religion.

    A look at the 'protected characteristics' which the law states cannot someone cannot be discriminated against is quite telling:

    age
    disability
    gender reassignment
    marriage or civil partnership (in employment only)
    pregnancy and maternity
    race
    religion or belief
    sex
    sexual orientation

    Apart from marriage only one of those is something that you aren't born with and had no option in choosing (although I would suggest most people had no choice about which religion they chose to follow as they were brainwashed by their parents).

    If religion is a protected characteristic why not other lunatic opinions such as if you prefer the prequels to the original trilogy or supporting Man U?

    It's only religion that feels the need to seek protection behind the law to avoid being exposed as ridiculous.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    As someone said to me at a fair in August, "I'm happy to be a fool for God."
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