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  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    As it is your right. You have the right to your own beliefs, but not your own facts. There may be a God, but the historical veracity of the Bible would still be unsupported (at best!) if there was one.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    Wouldn't it be great if God suddenly struck one of us down or appeared to us like Saul on the road to Damascus to give his beleaguered mate Draggers a much needed helping hand?

    But then again the whole thing about belief is that surviving the tests life throws at you gets you credit in the bank come judgement day so Draggers is probably pretty content with all the slings and arrows he's fielding as he knows that it's all moving him a few rows closer to sitting on God's right hand when he pops his clogs.

    Just as long as he's right and God exists of course....
  • Posts: 15,125
    What was said originally is the following:
    Well there is the Bible, for a start. Biblical archaeology has proved a lot of things too. There are many books on the subject that are well worth reading.

    So, it's not just a case of blind faith alone. The Bible is a history book in part too. It's a whole series of books collected together, in fact. It's very easy to forget that at times.There is evidence out there too that proves it is factually correct.

    So far no theist here (and elsewhere I might add) has been able to demonstrate this assessment, the above claim has not met its burden of proof. In fact, both "pure" and human sciences pretty much disprove the Bible, such as the Flood.

    Some info on the subject by AronRa. Yes he is an atheist, but his argument is actually watertight regardless of one's personal belief:



  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    As long as that serves you well, go ahead, friend.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    As long as that serves you well, go ahead, friend.

    It's all I've got left.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    As long as that serves you well, go ahead, friend.

    It's all I've got left.

    What happened to all the evidence you were quoting? You've still got that to fall back on surely?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    As long as that serves you well, go ahead, friend.

    It's all I've got left.

    What happened to all the evidence you were quoting? You've still got that to fall back on surely?

    Yes.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't know what I said but I'm still a believer.

    As long as that serves you well, go ahead, friend.

    It's all I've got left.

    What happened to all the evidence you were quoting? You've still got that to fall back on surely?

    Yes.

    Phew.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Care to give us some? So far you've been far more confident in the reliability of your sources than they deserved. To put it mildly.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Care to give us some? So far you've been far more confident in the reliability of your sources than they deserved. To put it mildly.

    It seems I will just continue to let you down. Hence, little point in continuing.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2018 Posts: 9,117
    But if the 'evidence' you've read is good enough to convince you so, given we're all reasonably intelligent people round here, ask yourself why doesn't it convince us?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    But if the 'evidence' you've read is good enough to convince you so, given we're all reasonably intelligent people round here, ask yourself why doesn't it convince us?

    Well, they believe they've found parts of the Ark in Turkey. That's always something.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/871000/Noah-s-Ark-found-Mount-Ararat-Turkey
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That woodwork would need miraculous preserving.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2018 Posts: 18,281
    That woodwork would need miraculous preserving.

    Indeed, but it may only be traces of it. It certainly seems to be in the right location:

    In the Book of Genesis, the mountains of Ararat (Biblical Hebrew הָרֵי אֲרָרָט‎, Tiberian hārēy Ǎrārāṭ, Septuagint: τὰ ὄρη τὰ Ἀραράτ) is the place where Noah's Ark came to rest after the great flood (Genesis 8:4).
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    But if the 'evidence' you've read is good enough to convince you so, given we're all reasonably intelligent people round here, ask yourself why doesn't it convince us?

    Well, they believe they've found parts of the Ark in Turkey. That's always something.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/871000/Noah-s-Ark-found-Mount-Ararat-Turkey


    Not sure if that's the same hoax but the finding of Noah's ark is an old urban legend: https://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

    Even if a wooden structure that looked like a boat was to be found in Turkey or elsewhere it would neither prove the Flood nor the Ark. You and other creationists make a presumption that it is the ark. You would still need to explain how such operation could be possible which would need to save ALL the species of animals of the world. Without leaving a trace. Same with the world Flood which apparently left no trace.

    I have seen the tomb of Merlin. I can provide photo evidence and witnesses if needs be. I'm not joking. But I do not think this tomb is proof of the existence of Merlin. I've seen many places mentioned in Arthurian legends, none of them proving the existence of Arthur. But would that be enough to convince you that there was a Merlin or a Arthur?
  • Posts: 15,125
    Worth reading on the subject of Ark sightings:https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark_sightings
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Any links to it, @Dragonpol?

    It might be online. I think it is, but this was in one of the print magazines I bought. I'll have a look for you when I get back home to my PC, @DarthDimi. I think there's an article on it too and the letter was a response to it. It's a bit dated now I guess, but interesting from a historical POV nonetheless!

    I thought it was from the 60s, but this seems to be the article here:

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/Encounter-1971jul-00008

    You can get all of Encounter magazine (1953-1990) online in .pdf file form at the above site. Well worth reading. I have a few of the print editions too. They're very collectible these days and contain brilliant writing from many famous authors and poets including our very own Kingsley Amis.

    Here also is a letter in reply to that article (just scroll down to read it) from Encounter:

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/Encounter-1972mar-00090
  • Posts: 4,617
    I think what happens here is that people are so desperate to beleive that they re-invent the meaning of evidence and cling to the slightest . smallest thing,

    "they also had a flood" "they found some old wood that could be the Ark",

    in any World court, in any peer review group, this would not last 1 min,

    Of course, its the opposite when religious theories are disproved. Look at all of the work and research Darwin had to produce and he was still laughed at by Christians. Imagine if Darwin's "evidence" had been as flimsy as "they've found some old wood"?
  • Posts: 15,125
    A wooden structure is not exactly the Rosetta Stone. And hardly sufficient to prove the Bible correct. That's the problem with Christian apologists: they don't know how to do research.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    What happened after Noah's ark. When the flood waters receded?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    I think what happens here is that people are so desperate to beleive that they re-invent the meaning of evidence and cling to the slightest . smallest thing,

    "they also had a flood" "they found some old wood that could be the Ark",

    in any World court, in any peer review group, this would not last 1 min,

    Of course, its the opposite when religious theories are disproved. Look at all of the work and research Darwin had to produce and he was still laughed at by Christians. Imagine if Darwin's "evidence" had been as flimsy as "they've found some old wood"?
    Ludovico wrote: »
    A wooden structure is not exactly the Rosetta Stone. And hardly sufficient to prove the Bible correct. That's the problem with Christian apologists: they don't know how to do research.

    The key difference between the religious methodology and the scientific one is that the religious mind comes up with a conclusion then desperately seeks evidence that supports it and discards any that disproves it.

    The scientific mind comes up with a hypothesis and then looks at the evidence on both sides to see whether the hypothesis is supported or not. Then based on the evidence it rethinks the hypothesis and then tests that and so on.

    If humanity had only ever used the religious methodology we'd still be sat in caves.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Benny wrote: »
    What happened after Noah's ark. When the flood waters receded?

    It tells you in the Bible.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    They were ... " making mud pies 007 " ;-)
  • Posts: 4,617
    Every day there's something....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42780226

    A Catholic deacon accused of killing at least 10 people - including his own mother - has gone on trial in Belgium.

    Former nurse Ivo Poppe is suspected of killing his victims by injecting air into their blood, causing a fatal embolism.

    The offences are alleged to have taken place at a clinic in Menen, where he worked as a nurse - and later, after being ordained, in a pastoral role.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    What happened after Noah's ark. When the flood waters receded?

    It tells you in the Bible.

    Given Australasia had separated from the other continents 100s of millions of years before the 'events' of the bible occurred how did the marsupials end up getting there from Mt Ararat?

    Unless you are going to deny plate tectonics and continental drift now?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2018 Posts: 18,281
    I'll simply bend to your superior knowledge, as is always the case, in this thread at least.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'll simply bend to your superior knowledge, as is always the case, in this thread at least.

    Well I was taught both plate tectonics and continental drift theory in a Catholic school. So if even they are being forced to admit it I tremble in fear at where you are getting your 'facts' from.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'll simply bend to your superior knowledge, as is always the case, in this thread at least.

    Well I was taught both plate tectonics and continental drift theory in a Catholic school. So if even they are being forced to admit it I tremble in fear at where you are getting your 'facts' from.

    I was an 'A' Level Geography student; got an A grade. I know that. Mine was a Protestant school, but still.
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