The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • Posts: 15,125
    patb wrote: »
    "2. Televangelists
    Another thing that brings my blood to a boil is that we have these televangelists running around saying one thing to the congregation and when they all leave, they bask and live lavishly... Didn't the bible say something about living modestly? I don't understand why I see these pastors in Multimillion dollar homes, Mercedes Benzes and Lear Jets after promising their congregations the world... Far from modest if you ask me."


    Don't you mean the Pope? He has access to more cash that any USA TV guy would dream of.

    Oh but nothing is his!

    I always find ironic that so many Christians are such staunt capitalists, sometimes even oligarchs, when Jesus's sole economic policy could only be considered by today's standards as radical socialism.
  • neonmartinineonmartini Classified
    Posts: 70
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    "2. Televangelists
    Another thing that brings my blood to a boil is that we have these televangelists running around saying one thing to the congregation and when they all leave, they bask and live lavishly... Didn't the bible say something about living modestly? I don't understand why I see these pastors in Multimillion dollar homes, Mercedes Benzes and Lear Jets after promising their congregations the world... Far from modest if you ask me."


    Don't you mean the Pope? He has access to more cash that any USA TV guy would dream of.

    Oh but nothing is his!

    I always find ironic that so many Christians are such staunt capitalists, sometimes even oligarchs, when Jesus's sole economic policy could only be considered by today's standards as radical socialism.

    I guess Jesus's message of living modestly got lost in greed
  • Posts: 4,617
    Organised religion loves it's bling
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    "2. Televangelists
    Another thing that brings my blood to a boil is that we have these televangelists running around saying one thing to the congregation and when they all leave, they bask and live lavishly... Didn't the bible say something about living modestly? I don't understand why I see these pastors in Multimillion dollar homes, Mercedes Benzes and Lear Jets after promising their congregations the world... Far from modest if you ask me."


    Don't you mean the Pope? He has access to more cash that any USA TV guy would dream of.

    Oh but nothing is his!

    I always find ironic that so many Christians are such staunt capitalists, sometimes even oligarchs, when Jesus's sole economic policy could only be considered by today's standards as radical socialism.

    I guess Jesus's message of living modestly got lost in greed

    Given that early Christians thought they were living in the end of days, money was a secondary (at best!) consideration for them. Didn't work as expected.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    If you believe - I mean really believe - in all this guff then why don't you give away all your possessions and dedicate your life to helping the poor?

    Seems so many of the religious content to have their nice house, car and holidays without a thought to facing St Peter on judgement day:

    St P: 'You think you're coming in here do you?'

    Believer: 'Yes I've led a good and virtuous life and went to church every week.'

    St P: 'I can't help noticing in 2004 you went on an all inclusive cruise round the Caribbean and then in 2017 you bought a 55 inch 4K telly. And Tesco Value never good enough for you was it? Always had to be Tesco Finest. Don't you think that money might have been better spent building wells in Africa?'

    Believer: 'Err well yeah. But I gave £10 a month to charity.'

    St P: 'Well whoopy shit.'

    If I was a believer I'd be so petrified that my soul was going to burn in hell that I wouldn't be sitting in my nice warm living room typing away on an expensive phone or laptop on a Bond forum I'd be out there doing God's work. You do realise he's watching you all the time don't you and makes a note every time you sprint past the starving and homeless because you want to get back for Rosemary & Thyme on ITV4?

    More utterly illogical behaviour (not being scared in the slightest of going to hell I mean not watching Rosemary & Thyme, although why anyone would choose to do that also beggars belief.)
  • Posts: 4,617
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    This thread is itself beyond parody.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    This thread is itself beyond parody.

    There's an understatement.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    comic.JPG
  • Posts: 15,125
    patb wrote: »

    That's why religion should keep away from school: it's against education. That's bad enough that there are faith schools, but let's get rid of the C of E and assembly prayers in state schools.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    This thread is itself beyond parody.

    You started this thread. You are not happy how it turned out does not make it a joke. Unless the subject matter is a joke which I'd actually tend to agree.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Many of the contributors are jokers with axes to grind against religion and any member of a religious faith. They want to browbeat us into submission, to sign us up as fellow athiests. So far their failure rate has been 100% in this regard.

    Still, it has been an online profile of a certain type of atheist and I'm sure it has been informative in that regard. The use of hyperbole has been excessive (baby cancer etc.) but weak arguments often depend on such use of overtly dramatic language.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 628
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Many of the contributors are jokers with axes to grind against religion and any member of a religious faith.

    ... with a lot of free time on their hands to complain about a subject matter that they think is rubbish.

    But, hey, none of that matters because they're going to change everyone's mind ... starting right here on a James Bond message board!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »

    'Ofsted has promised to take a tougher line on faith schools'

    I believe that will happen about as much as I believe in talking snakes.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    patb wrote: »

    That's why religion should keep away from school: it's against education. That's bad enough that there are faith schools, but let's get rid of the C of E and assembly prayers in state schools.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    This thread is itself beyond parody.

    You started this thread. You are not happy how it turned out does not make it a joke. Unless the subject matter is a joke which I'd actually tend to agree.

    Indeed. If you refuse to enter into any sort of debate you can't really complain when it just descends into ridicule of religion because without any counter argumentents coming from the religious side it's far too easy for the rest of us keep posting links to how ludicrous religion is.

    The only thing that's beyond parody is that people genuinely believe (and you are one of them) that this garbage is worthy of respect.

    'Elsewhere, a number of images of women were censored to hide their chests, shoulders and arms, and legs above the knee.'


    That doesn't leave a lot does it? Head and feet only? Remind me not to google any Jewish porn.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Many of the contributors are jokers with axes to grind against religion and any member of a religious faith.

    If you mean do I think religion is bollocks and people who believe in it delusional fools then guilty. But until you come back with any arguments rather than just bleating that we're not all just saying 'Hallelujah and 'Allah Akbhar' in this thread then you don't do yourself any favours.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    ... with a lot of free time on their hands to complain about a subject matter that they think is rubbish.
    But complaining about the complainers obviously not a waste of time at all.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    To reply with any sort of theological debate or argument at a substantive level would merely be to fuel the fire further with the result being more scoffing, mocking and jeering people of faith. I'm not personally prepared to follow that path myself as little good can come of it.

    Perhaos this thread will get a second wind at a later date in the future where some members of faith will engage in debate with athiests but for now at least it is destined to be the official Athiest's Corner of MI6 Community. I'm sure the Athiests here will continue to enjoy debating something they hate to infinity and beyond but it's not for me. Too much time on their hands, undoubtedly, but no more of my time will be expended on this thread.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I have heard baby cancer described as many things but never "hyperbole"

    hyperbole
    hʌɪˈpəːbəli/
    noun
    noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles

    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    patb wrote: »
    I have heard baby cancer described as many things but never "hyperbole"

    hyperbole
    hʌɪˈpəːbəli/
    noun
    noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles

    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

    I was referring to the fact it was specifically blamed on God, not the disease itself, as you well know of course. But again we are reduced to petty pointscoring. We all have egos that need feeding I suppose.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I have heard baby cancer described as many things but never "hyperbole"

    hyperbole
    hʌɪˈpəːbəli/
    noun
    noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles

    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

    I was referring to the fact it was specifically blamed on God, not the disease itself, as you well know of course. But again we are reduced to petty pointscoring. We all have egos that need feeding I suppose.

    I'm curious if you could at least inform us of where the disease originates from then if you feel blaming it on the bloke who created the entire universe and everything in it as unjust?

    'Beyond parody' your words not mine and you're skating dangerously close to it right now.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 4,617
    If God exists, he is specifically to blame for baby cancer. Either for creating it in the first place or by standing around with arms folded watching babies die. I can see how this is, at the very least, unconfortable for people who not only believe in God but also worship him.

    With power comes responsibility. Worshippers seem happy to think that God is..God and all that it brings. But when someone tries to make him accountable for the results of that power, they can't accept the concept.

    This situation exists outside of this forum. To somehow try to blame forum members for this situation seems ....well, I don't know really.

    PS if God is not part of the process, why do people pray to God in times of sickness, emergency etc ?

    PPS Perhaps God created:
    Raindrops on roses
    And whiskers on kittens
    Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
    Brown paper packages tied up with strings
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    To reply with any sort of theological debate or argument at a substantive level would merely be to fuel the fire further with the result being more scoffing, mocking and jeering people of faith. I'm not personally prepared to follow that path myself as little good can come of it.

    Perhaos this thread will get a second wind at a later date in the future where some members of faith will engage in debate with athiests but for now at least it is destined to be the official Athiest's Corner of MI6 Community. I'm sure the Athiests here will continue to enjoy debating something they hate to infinity and beyond but it's not for me. Too much time on their hands, undoubtedly, but no more of my time will be expended on this thread.

    You've been saying that a lot lately and always came back. Not that I complain about you coming back mind you, you started this thread after all and it's a free and open forum. But it's extremely poor argument to whine about this place being one sided and bringing nothing to defend your point, instead complaining that it would be pointless to do so then saying again that you're leaving it... If you had no argument to begin with you wouldn't do anything different.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Many of the contributors are jokers with axes to grind against religion and any member of a religious faith.

    ... with a lot of free time on their hands to complain about a subject matter that they think is rubbish.

    But, hey, none of that matters because they're going to change everyone's mind ... starting right here on a James Bond message board!

    We talked about the relevance of this thread on a Bond forum before. It has also a football thread which I don't follow because football bores me.

    As for wasting our time, I don't think it's a waste of time to educate and encourage scepticism and critical thinking. If I wanted to waste my time I'd pray.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Reading this thread causes cancer of the brain.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 628
    The Atheists' Echo Chamber of Ant-Like Significance
  • Posts: 4,617
    People supporting the status quo will always be fearful of change and, therefore, criticise those for trying to bring about change as wasting their time.

    Of course, we own our own time and its ours to spend it on what we like.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    The Atheists' Echo Chamber of Ant-Like Significance

    Perhaps I should incorporate that into the thread title somehow.
  • Posts: 628
    Oh, I'm thinking it should be the subtitle of the next Indiana Jones movie!
  • Posts: 4,617
    Nice quote from David Attenborough:

    When creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that’s going to make him blind.

    And [I ask them], ‘Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball? Because that doesn’t seem to me to coincide with a God who’s full of mercy.


  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Reading this thread causes cancer of the brain.
    Which is all cancer's fault for existing obviously.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    The Atheists' Echo Chamber of Ant-Like Significance

    Perhaps I should incorporate that into the thread title somehow.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Oh, I'm thinking it should be the subtitle of the next Indiana Jones movie!

    Feel free to address any of the questions we have raised over the previous 60 pages with any arguments or evidence of your own any time you feel like it chaps but at least spare us the poor man's Hale & Pace routine.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    patb wrote: »
    Nice quote from David Attenborough:

    When creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that’s going to make him blind.

    And [I ask them], ‘Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball? Because that doesn’t seem to me to coincide with a God who’s full of mercy.


    Yes, and Stephen Fry uses similar arguments. I watched that video with Attenborough recently myself on You Tube. He said the more logical explanation is that that parasitic worm evolved in the river. It's good to know that the Big Bang theory absolves all personal blame for the creation of such worms. It wasn't much more humane than God as far as I can see, but it's much harder to blame a massive explosion than it is to blame God.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Nice quote from David Attenborough:

    When creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that’s going to make him blind.

    And [I ask them], ‘Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball? Because that doesn’t seem to me to coincide with a God who’s full of mercy.


    Yes, and Stephen Fry uses similar arguments. I watched that video with Attenborough recently myself on You Tube. He said the more logical explanation is that that parasitic worm evolved in the river. It's good to know that the Big Bang theory absolves all personal blame for the creation of such worms. It wasn't much more humane than God as far as I can see, but it's much harder to blame a massive explosion than it is to blame God.

    I hate to say this but you're getting ridiculous. Nobody said evolution or nature was moral. Nobody said that either had any beneficial intentions whatsoever. Science is intself amoral. If a shark eats a human being I will not accuse the shark of immoral behavior or being unethical. But I'd hold a supreme being to higher standards!
    And typical Xian confusion: you're equating the Big Bang Theory with the theory of Evolution. They have nothing to do with each other!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Nice quote from David Attenborough:

    When creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that’s going to make him blind.

    And [I ask them], ‘Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child’s eyeball? Because that doesn’t seem to me to coincide with a God who’s full of mercy.


    Yes, and Stephen Fry uses similar arguments. I watched that video with Attenborough recently myself on You Tube. He said the more logical explanation is that that parasitic worm evolved in the river. It's good to know that the Big Bang theory absolves all personal blame for the creation of such worms. It wasn't much more humane than God as far as I can see, but it's much harder to blame a massive explosion than it is to blame God.

    I hate to say this but you're getting ridiculous. Nobody said evolution or nature was moral. Nobody said that either had any beneficial intentions whatsoever. Science is intself amoral. If a shark eats a human being I will not accuse the shark of immoral behavior or being unethical. But I'd hold a supreme being to higher standards!
    And typical Xian confusion: you're equating the Big Bang Theory with the theory of Evolution. They have nothing to do with each other!

    I'm sure you've called me worse than ridiculous before now. It's water off a duck's back to me by this stage.

    There was and still are many occasions when science has been immoral as well, but you conveniently chose to omit that. No matter.

    And as you don't believe in God, why us there the need to hold him to any standard. As an atheist, he doesn't exist to you, so it's all rather pointless if I may say so.

    On my "typical Xian confusion": is that because neither exist or have ever existed?
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 4,617
    I could do a better job of defending religion than this! Just dreadful stuff. Poor and confused approaches here. Perhaps I'll set up a new forum ID and join the faith side to give my fellow atheists something to debate against because a "super sub" is really needed. It's just one way traffic at the moment.
This discussion has been closed.