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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    And where does this bright chap have his ancestry?

    Pakistan.
    Go further back, and his hindu ancestors were forced into islam by violence.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    @patb I'm surprised no religious folk claimed Hawkins made a death bed confession.

    On a happier note: New Zealand repealed their blasphemy law and Canada should do the same.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    patb wrote: »
    http://www.westminster-abbey.org/press/news/2018/march/professor-stephen-hawking-to-be-honoured-at-the-abbey

    Interesting this. SH was an atheist. But the guys at the Abbey are happy to take his ashes and organise a service of thanksgiving (happy to overlook he thought religion was plain wrong and that surely, he is now in hell?). Perhaps it's just me and Im sure his friends/relatives were consulted but, this man spent his life helping to increase our knowledge and he embraced the scientific process etc. Of all the places the celebrate his life, Westminster Abbey seems a strange choice and I wonder what he would have thought. The next mission to Mars would seem more applicable for the great man.

    As I understand it, Westminster Abbey sort of transcends religion and the Church of England in its role of a national resting place for great Brits, sort of like the Panthéon in Paris for les grands Français (although that's not a church at the same time). Hawking will be close to Darwin (possibly the No. 1 red rag for anti-evolution fundamentalists), Isaac Newton and Ernest Rutherford...probably not the most devout believers either. So I don't think he would have minded, especially since he knew there would be nothing left of him that was able to care where he ended up.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    My issue with him being buried in a church is that it's a way for the C of E to give themselves a veneer of intellectual and academic legitimacy it does not deserve. Hawking helped us understand the universe better. The C of E maintains superstition and ignorance.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @patb I'm surprised no religious folk claimed Hawkins made a death bed confession.

    On a happier note: New Zealand repealed their blasphemy law and Canada should do the same.

    Well, let me say right now that I'm very disappointed in them that it took them so long to symbolically repeal a meaningless law that is never tried nowadays anyhow. I thought those countries were light years ahead of the UK in just about every aspect and were meant to show us the folly of our ways. Imagine ac relic of Empire and monarchy like the UK being ahead of the colonies! The UK managed to repeal their blasphemy laws under the Gordon Brown premiership with section 79 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008. Section 79 is quoted in all its glory below:

    s. 79 Abolition of common law offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel

    (1) The offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel under the common law of England and Wales are abolished.

    (2) In section 1 of the Criminal Libel Act 1819 (60 Geo. 3 & 1 Geo. 4 c. 8) (orders for seizure of copies of blasphemous or seditious libel) the words “any blasphemous libel, or” are omitted.

    (3) In sections 3 and 4 of the Law of Libel Amendment Act 1888 (c. 64) (privileged matters) the words “blasphemous or” are omitted.

    (4) Subsections (2) and (3) (and the related repeals in Schedule 28) extend to England and Wales only.

    On a similar note, section 73 of the the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 provided:

    s. 73 Abolition of common law libel offences etc

    The following offences under the common law of England and Wales and the common law of Northern Ireland are abolished—

    (a)the offences of sedition and seditious libel;

    (b)the offence of defamatory libel;

    (c)the offence of obscene libel.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    There's this former student of mine, Malik, whom I taught chemistry and physics during his final three years of secondary school. Raised a Muslim, he showed tremendous interest in science but only when he and I were more or less alone in the classroom or at the very least far away from other people's ears. Yet very often we talked about astronomy, quantum physics and more. I took him to the town's library one day -- I believe he was 16 then -- and dropped him a few reading suggestions which, to my fair astonishment, he took very seriously. Unbeknownst to his parents, brothers and sisters, he spent countless hours in the library going through these books. Alas, when the time of graduation came and I asked him about his plans for college, he reluctantly confessed that his father wanted him to study economics. And that was it.

    Yesterday, some 3 years after Malik's graduation from our school, I saw him again while waiting for my train ride home. A lot's happened since secondary school, it seems:

    - Refusing to follow his father's demands, Malik, less than a week after graduation, decided instead to study theoretical physics. His parents were at first very dismayed but eventually agreed with his choice.
    - He's been doing very well in college since, earning very good grades.
    - He has furthermore totally dropped religion, which, he said, did cause some friction at home. Fortunately, however, his parents and siblings stopped making a fuss about that very quickly, seeing how little their efforts were paying off. He's still welcome in their house and at their dinner table, of course, but part of the "agreement" is that he shan't fight their conviction or ridicule their tradition, something Malik is fine with.
    - He has found himself a lovely girlfriend in college and aspires to become either a member of a theoretical physics research group or possibly a physics teacher.

    Malik furthermore told me that a lot of what's happened is mostly thanks to me. I'm the one who warmed him up to science, he said; the books in the library (some of which he eventually smuggled into the house) fascinated him very much and gave him a purpose. First, he read them out of respect for me. (A funny notion, but kind of cute.) Then, they legitimately began to capture him. Very soon, he was hooked. But more importantly, our conversations about the universe, about our modest presence in it, about so many things, in fact, had instilled in him, first, a serious doubt about the fundamental notions of his family's religion; then, anger and fear, that religion is a lie, an intellectual blindfold (his words), an excuse to keep so many of his peers locked up in darkness. He had talked about this with an Imam at one point, something he had never told me before, and that man had told him in return that he should simply follow his own path, even if it meant shaking himself loose from gods and tradition. He would find greatness by following a path he deemed the right one. And so he did. He cannot fully condemn Islam, because his anscestry is a part of it, but he's now a fullblood atheist. I wanted to talk some more about that, but alas, the train ride for once didn't last long enough for me.

    A firm handshake when I got off the train consolidated Malik's gratitude. I hope to hear from him again. I feel proud and, above all else, successful as a teacher.
    Heartwarming stuff Darth and I wish the guy luck in life. You should be very proud that you have released him from the shackles of religion.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @patb I'm surprised no religious folk claimed Hawkins made a death bed confession.
    The offspring of a tryst betwixt Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking? Add a dash of Hitch's DNA into the mix and we have the ultimate atheist deity.
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    http://www.westminster-abbey.org/press/news/2018/march/professor-stephen-hawking-to-be-honoured-at-the-abbey

    Interesting this. SH was an atheist. But the guys at the Abbey are happy to take his ashes and organise a service of thanksgiving (happy to overlook he thought religion was plain wrong and that surely, he is now in hell?). Perhaps it's just me and Im sure his friends/relatives were consulted but, this man spent his life helping to increase our knowledge and he embraced the scientific process etc. Of all the places the celebrate his life, Westminster Abbey seems a strange choice and I wonder what he would have thought. The next mission to Mars would seem more applicable for the great man.

    As I understand it, Westminster Abbey sort of transcends religion and the Church of England in its role of a national resting place for great Brits, sort of like the Panthéon in Paris for les grands Français (although that's not a church at the same time). Hawking will be close to Darwin (possibly the No. 1 red rag for anti-evolution fundamentalists), Isaac Newton and Ernest Rutherford...probably not the most devout believers either. So I don't think he would have minded, especially since he knew there would be nothing left of him that was able to care where he ended up.
    I would think of it this way too.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My issue with him being buried in a church is that it's a way for the C of E to give themselves a veneer of intellectual and academic legitimacy it does not deserve. Hawking helped us understand the universe better. The C of E maintains superstition and ignorance.
    Agreed. This is a very nice bit of PR for the antiquated and moribund CofE to pretend they are relevant.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    @Ludovico yes, you made my point better than myself. They are happy to open their doors to dead sinners if it helps them get some media coverage. I would have more respect if they said, no, we are a CofE church and the church is for believers. I will watch the thanksgiving ceremony with interest. Will there be prayers and songs etc.

    When I die , I dont want my body anywhere near a church.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    I think it's time for a light musical interlude, don't you? What's that? Oh, you agree? Good!

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    @TheWizardOfIce Difficult sometimes to type on my phone.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @TheWizardOfIce Difficult sometimes to type on my phone.

    Typing on your phone. You're definitely a fanatic. ;)

    Don't worry, though. I do it too!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @TheWizardOfIce Difficult sometimes to type on my phone.

    Typing on your phone. You're definitely a fanatic. ;)

    Don't worry, though. I do it too!

    I just do pretty much everything on my phone. But I'd easily admit that l can be obsessed.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @TheWizardOfIce Difficult sometimes to type on my phone.

    Typing on your phone. You're definitely a fanatic. ;)

    Don't worry, though. I do it too!

    I just do pretty much everything on my phone. But I'd easily admit that l can be obsessed.

    Yes, I too admit that I've been doing a lot of Bond forum typing since I got my Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone back in March 2016. In fact, I'm due for an upgrade, but I'm holding off for now! :)
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Almost everyday, there is something to post.

    Love the quote: If the church was a school, “it would have been closed down a long time ago”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/child-abuse-inquiry-collusion-and-cover-up-rife-among-c0e-clergy
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    Almost everyday, there is something to post.
    And let's not forget some more 'religion of peace' stuff going down in France today.

    It would be nice if the believers on here could post even one positive story about religion but they seem to have all run for the hills.

    Still I live in hope of @Risico007's earth shattering thesis one day seeing the light of day.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    * checks fingernails

    Still waiting for that evidence about Jesus' resurrection.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    * checks fingernails

    Still waiting for that evidence about Jesus' resurrection.

    The evidence will manifest in your nails?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    And a whole lot more too. :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Makes sense.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    * checks fingernails

    Still waiting for that evidence about Jesus' resurrection.

    The evidence will manifest in your nails?

    No, the evidence will actually manifest itself in his hands as stigmata of course. You silly boy.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    I'm ready to receive. :)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm ready to receive. :)

    Only something like that would make you a believer I'm guessing? Or perhaps not?
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,474
    Has anyone else seen There Will Be Blood? The church in that movie both makes me laugh and scared.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Has anyone else seen There Will Be Blood? The church in that movie both makes me laugh and scared.

    I've not seen it but that title could be the byline of this thread! ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm ready to receive. :)

    Only something like that would make you a believer I'm guessing? Or perhaps not?

    I would still consider a medical condition if that would happen. ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm ready to receive. :)

    Only something like that would make you a believer I'm guessing? Or perhaps not?

    I would still consider a medical condition if that would happen. ;)

    As a Protestant I'm not a great believer in such things myself.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm ready to receive. :)

    Only something like that would make you a believer I'm guessing? Or perhaps not?

    I would still consider a medical condition if that would happen. ;)

    As a Protestant I'm not a great believer in such things myself.
    Medicine you mean versus the power of prayer?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    I sincerely hope @Dragonpol is talking about the Stigmata.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I sincerely hope @Dragonpol is talking about the Stigmata.

    I was, yes. I should have thought it was obvious to @TheWizardOfIce.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    That said, prayer is of course an important part of Christianity and many other religions.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    That said, prayer is of course an important part of Christianity and many other religions.
    True, we see it's efficacy daily Stateside where it prevents shootings on a regular basis.
This discussion has been closed.