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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    You feel sorry for the hospital staff doing their very best I am sure but getting all this shit raining down on them from people who couldn't care less about Alfie.

  • Posts: 15,125
    You feel sorry for the hospital staff doing their very best I am sure but getting all this shit raining down on them from people who couldn't care less about Alfie.

    Including death threats and intimidation. The bullies also harassed patients.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Just gone through security at Stansted and there's a load of signs saying 'To gates', 'Shops', 'Toilets' etc. At the bottom it boldly states 'Prayer Room'!

    Am I the only one who thinks this is a ridiculous notion at an airport?

    Maybe a 'Thank the pilot and the guys who tighten the wheel nuts and check the fan blades' might make more sense?

    If you're having to beg God or Allah to keep your plane in the sky you might want to think about going with a better airline.

    That said I'm with Ryanair so obviously I'm in the queue for a good pray.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Just gone through security at Stansted and there's a load of signs saying 'To gates', 'Shops', 'Toilets' etc. At the bottom it boldly states 'Prayer Room'!

    Am I the only one who thinks this is a ridiculous notion at an airport?

    Maybe a 'Thank the pilot and the guys who tighten the wheel nuts and check the fan blades' might make more sense?

    If you're having to beg God or Allah to keep your plane in the sky you might want to think about going with a better airline.

    That said I'm with Ryanair so obviously I'm in the queue for a good pray.

    I thought you were only back from holiday? That is the privilege of wealth.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Landed safely again Draggers and that's despite me being an infidel sinner. Are you noticing a pattern here?

    Perhaps it's not God who keeps planes in the sky but science?

    'If God had wanted man to fly...'
    'He would have given him wings Mr Kidd'

    Does the fact that we haven't got wings yet still can fly therefore prove God doesn't exist? Sadly no, that would be @Risico007 logic.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Landed safely again Draggers and that's despite me being an infidel sinner. Are you noticing a pattern here?

    Perhaps it's not God who keeps planes in the sky but science?

    'If God had wanted man to fly...'
    'He would have given him wings Mr Kidd'

    Does the fact that we haven't got wings yet still can fly therefore prove God doesn't exist? Sadly no, that would be @Risico007 logic.

    Well, of course one could say God gave the engineers and the pilots the brain power to be able to keep the plane up in the air for the duration of the flight. That is the counter-argument. In that sense, praying is an optional extra.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Landed safely again Draggers and that's despite me being an infidel sinner. Are you noticing a pattern here?

    Perhaps it's not God who keeps planes in the sky but science?

    'If God had wanted man to fly...'
    'He would have given him wings Mr Kidd'

    Does the fact that we haven't got wings yet still can fly therefore prove God doesn't exist? Sadly no, that would be @Risico007 logic.

    Well, of course one could say God gave the engineers and the pilots the brain power to be able to keep the plane up in the air for the duration of the flight. That is the counter-argument.
    Indeed. But if that's the case then why not just give us actual wings then?

    Is part of the fun he gets from designing the whole universe and then just sitting there doing nothing watching us pathetic creatures trying to work shit out?

    So we nailed flying but needless to say he's having the last laugh over baby cancer.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Landed safely again Draggers and that's despite me being an infidel sinner. Are you noticing a pattern here?

    Perhaps it's not God who keeps planes in the sky but science?

    'If God had wanted man to fly...'
    'He would have given him wings Mr Kidd'

    Does the fact that we haven't got wings yet still can fly therefore prove God doesn't exist? Sadly no, that would be @Risico007 logic.

    Well, of course one could say God gave the engineers and the pilots the brain power to be able to keep the plane up in the air for the duration of the flight. That is the counter-argument.
    Indeed. But if that's the case then why not just give us actual wings then?

    Is part of the fun he gets from designing the whole universe and then just sitting there doing nothing watching us pathetic creatures trying to work shit out?

    So we nailed flying but needless to say he's having the last laugh over baby cancer.

    It's because we're humans, not birds.

    Humans are given their own freewill guided by the brain power God has given them.

    The baby cancer point is becoming rather tiresome as an argument.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Landed safely again Draggers and that's despite me being an infidel sinner. Are you noticing a pattern here?

    Perhaps it's not God who keeps planes in the sky but science?

    'If God had wanted man to fly...'
    'He would have given him wings Mr Kidd'

    Does the fact that we haven't got wings yet still can fly therefore prove God doesn't exist? Sadly no, that would be @Risico007 logic.

    Well, of course one could say God gave the engineers and the pilots the brain power to be able to keep the plane up in the air for the duration of the flight. That is the counter-argument.
    Indeed. But if that's the case then why not just give us actual wings then?

    Is part of the fun he gets from designing the whole universe and then just sitting there doing nothing watching us pathetic creatures trying to work shit out?

    So we nailed flying but needless to say he's having the last laugh over baby cancer.

    It's because we're humans, not birds.

    Humans are given their own freewill guided by the brain power God has given them.
    So why does he get the hump when we decide not to believe in him and smite us with floods and earthquakes? If he gives us free will then he gives us the right to make our own decisions and for him to then go mental when we decide there are better options than worshipping him hardly seems fair.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    The baby cancer point is becoming rather tiresome as an argument.
    Indeed it is. But merely saying that doesn't count as an argument to counter it I'm afraid.

    You come up with an argument for baby cancer and I'll stop labouring the point. Deal?
  • Posts: 12,474
    Baby cancer actually is a good argument. Often times believers will argue because people are all sinful we deserve whatever terrible things come our ways (and also that we all des
    erve eternal damnation for just one lifetime of sin), but babies are incapable of malice the way developed people are. Why punish them? I know some one would tell me it’s just more collateral sin. To that I say, why would God allow different people to be on such unfair ground if He wanted everyone to believe and be his follower?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Those prayer rooms are for islamic extremists.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Landed safely again Draggers and that's despite me being an infidel sinner. Are you noticing a pattern here?

    Perhaps it's not God who keeps planes in the sky but science?

    'If God had wanted man to fly...'
    'He would have given him wings Mr Kidd'

    Does the fact that we haven't got wings yet still can fly therefore prove God doesn't exist? Sadly no, that would be @Risico007 logic.

    Well, of course one could say God gave the engineers and the pilots the brain power to be able to keep the plane up in the air for the duration of the flight. That is the counter-argument.
    Indeed. But if that's the case then why not just give us actual wings then?

    Is part of the fun he gets from designing the whole universe and then just sitting there doing nothing watching us pathetic creatures trying to work shit out?

    So we nailed flying but needless to say he's having the last laugh over baby cancer.

    It's because we're humans, not birds.

    Humans are given their own freewill guided by the brain power God has given them.

    The baby cancer point is becoming rather tiresome as an argument.

    Intelligence and free will are two different things. If God exists he's a very poor designer: we can improve on his design, make machines that work better than his design, understand the flaws of his design and see the flaws of his design... flaws of sometimes cosmic proportions.

    And the cancer point is only tiresome to you because you have been completely unable to address it. I don't think it the argument disproves God but it debunks any argument about his goodness if he existed.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Those prayer rooms are for islamic extremists.

    Yes, that fits. They're checking to make sure thar they'll be getting all those virgins before they go through with it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited April 2018 Posts: 45,489
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Those prayer rooms are for islamic extremists.

    Yes, that fits. They're checking to make sure thar they'll be getting all those virgins before they go through with it.

    What are you talking about? Islam is the religion of peace. An islamic extremist is hence extremely peaceful.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Those prayer rooms are for islamic extremists.

    Yes, that fits. They're checking to make sure thar they'll be getting all those virgins before they go through with it.

    What are you talking about? Islam is the religion of peace. An islamic extremist is hence extremely peaceful.

    Of course. I just meant extreme allegiance to the Koran and Allah. How could one think anything else?!
  • Posts: 15,125
    As ridiculous as the 72 virgins belief how are Christian beliefs of afterlife any less ridiculous, @Dragonpol ? Are you by any chance reproaching Muslims to take things on faith? It's easy to poke fun at other religions and Islam is easy target... But why the double standard?

    Oh and you chose to ignore our previous comments and held on mocking another faith as if it was a get out of jail free card. I daresay that you are copping out.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Whereas the rest of you are copping out by relying on science that you don't fully understand but that science has told you is true, at least for now. There's a leap of faith involved there too, namely hoping that the scientific experts are right.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Whereas the rest of you are copping out by relying on science that you don't fully understand but that science has told you is true, at least for now. There's a leap of faith involved there too, namely hoping that the scientific experts are right.

    Actually no: I accept a consensus based on testable observations. Whether it's the theory of evolution, the use of vaccines or medical treatment. And my view can change if there are evidences of the contrary. I do not claim to understand everything, but I do understand a thing or two.

    Quick question: when you are ill, who do you trust to establish the right diagnosis and find the right treatment, your doctor, or a priest? I daresay that you trust the doctor even if you are not one yourself. Because you know that he has the knowledge and the skills to give the right diagnosis.

    In any case, your post is one huge tu quoque and false equivalence argument.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 12,837
    @Dragonpol I don't think religious people criticising the beliefs of other religions is fair because they're all as unbelieveable as the others imo. The methods/practises/whatever sure, but you don't get to laugh at what a load of bollocks the 72 virgins stuff is if you take the bible at face value.
    I think the only way you can look at it fairly is by saying you think it's different teachings all stemming from the same higher power. Otherwise you're just being hypocritical. If you believe in one religion you can't in all fairness write off the rest of them, basically.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Dragonpol I don't think religious people criticising the beliefs of other religions is fair because they're all as unbelieveable as the others imo. The methods/practises/whatever sure, but you don't get to laugh at what a load of bollocks the 72 virgins stuff is if you take the bible at face value.
    I think the only way you can look at it fairly is by saying you think it's different teachings all stemming from the same higher power. Otherwise you're just being hypocritical. If you believe in one religion you can't in all fairness write off the rest of them, basically.

    Couldn't agree more with this. It's all or nothing; one isn't any more or less ridiculous than the other, as they're all ridiculous.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Dragonpol I don't think religious people criticising the beliefs of other religions is fair because they're all as unbelieveable as the others imo. The methods/practises/whatever sure, but you don't get to laugh at what a load of bollocks the 72 virgins stuff is if you take the bible at face value.
    I think the only way you can look at it fairly is by saying you think it's different teachings all stemming from the same higher power. Otherwise you're just being hypocritical. If you believe in one religion you can't in all fairness write off the rest of them, basically.

    Couldn't agree more with this. It's all or nothing; one isn't any more or less ridiculous than the other, as they're all ridiculous.

    Going to big up my adoptive mum again and say that's her attitude towards it which I think is the example all religious people should follow. She's a Christian and she's held onto it because she likes the thought of there being a higher power but she doesn't take the bible literally. Mostly because of how outdated most of it is and because of the stuff that's been proven wrong, but also because in her own words, "if I was born in pakistan I'd probably be a muslim". She thinks there's one God and that all the different religions come from that same source.

    I know some will say you can't pick and choose which bits to believe in but I saw how much the thought of him going to heaven helped her when my dad died, and I wouldn't want to begrudge her that (probably the reason I haven't been as harsh on religion as some others in this thread). And at the end of the day I think her attitude to religion is harmless. She believes what she wants, keeps it to herself, and she reconciles her beliefs with the society/world around her rather than trying to tell everyone to stop being modern and progressive and enlightened and instead follow this thousand year old book to the letter.

    My grandparents in Jamaica though are the other side of the coin, religious to the point of blindness (which is strange because my granddad is almost as far from a good Christian as you can get, hates violence of any sort but has commited most of the other sins in the book, so you'd think he'd be a lot more relaxed and open minded about it, but no). I've given up trying to talk to them about it to be honest.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Whereas the rest of you are copping out by relying on science that you don't fully understand but that science has told you is true, at least for now. There's a leap of faith involved there too, namely hoping that the scientific experts are right.
    I sure as f**k wouldn't have got in that plane this morning just hoping it would stay in the sky. I did it because I understand the process of thrust moving air over the wings to give lift.

    The only leap of fair required in surviving a plane flight is that everyone has done their job properly and there's no freak occurrence such as a bird strike. Planes don't stay in the air on faith it's physics that does the heavy lifting.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Dragonpol I don't think religious people criticising the beliefs of other religions is fair because they're all as unbelieveable as the others imo. The methods/practises/whatever sure, but you don't get to laugh at what a load of bollocks the 72 virgins stuff is if you take the bible at face value.
    I think the only way you can look at it fairly is by saying you think it's different teachings all stemming from the same higher power. Otherwise you're just being hypocritical. If you believe in one religion you can't in all fairness write off the rest of them, basically.

    Couldn't agree more with this. It's all or nothing; one isn't any more or less ridiculous than the other, as they're all ridiculous.

    Going to big up my adoptive mum again and say that's her attitude towards it which I think is the example all religious people should follow. She's a Christian and she's held onto it because she likes the thought of there being a higher power but she doesn't take the bible literally. Mostly because of how outdated most of it is and because of the stuff that's been proven wrong, but also because in her own words, "if I was born in pakistan I'd probably be a muslim". She thinks there's one God and that all the different religions come from that same source.

    I know some will say you can't pick and choose which bits to believe in but I saw how much the thought of him going to heaven helped her when my dad died, and I wouldn't want to begrudge her that (probably the reason I haven't been as harsh on religion as some others in this thread). And at the end of the day I think her attitude to religion is harmless. She believes what she wants, keeps it to herself, and she reconciles her beliefs with the society/world around her rather than trying to tell everyone to stop being modern and progressive and enlightened and instead follow this thousand year old book to the letter.

    My grandparents in Jamaica though are the other side of the coin, religious to the point of blindness (which is strange because my granddad is almost as far from a good Christian as you can get, hates violence of any sort but has commited most of the other sins in the book, so you'd think he'd be a lot more relaxed and open minded about it, but no). I've given up trying to talk to them about it to be honest.
    I have to say, deluded as I think they are, I have far more respect for someone who says they believe in a God and that religions are just different ways of interpreting him rather than the arrogance of the religious who say 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Those guys believe in absolute bullshit but obviously my bullshit is the truth.'


  • Posts: 12,474
    I’m not a theist, but I can’t outright say I know there is no God. If there is, I don’t think any form of religion is something that leads one to God and eternal glory.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I find it ironic that Christians find the Islamic belief of 72 virgins in heaven ridiculous... but agree with Muslims about the virgin birth of Jesus. Oh the former is bonkers but the latter sure makes perfect sense!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I find it ironic that Christians find the Islamic belief of 72 virgins in heaven ridiculous... but agree with Muslims about the virgin birth of Jesus. Oh the former is bonkers but the latter sure makes perfect sense!

    I think it's the committing suicide and killing others that we find so wrong about jihad. The 72 virgins thing is an irrelevance after that.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I cannot say outright there is no God. However all the 'evidence' I see points to the fact that there is not one and coupled with the fact that even if he does exist he's a vindictive and petty psychopath (Exibhit A - baby cancer) then there is neither evidence nor reason to worship him.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I find it ironic that Christians find the Islamic belief of 72 virgins in heaven ridiculous... but agree with Muslims about the virgin birth of Jesus. Oh the former is bonkers but the latter sure makes perfect sense!

    I think it's the committing suicide and killing others that we find so wrong about jihad. The 72 virgins thing is an irrelevance after that.

    Yet it was the 72 virgins you mocked. What's the intrinsic difference between this, or even God wanting suicide bombers to die as martyrs, and the virgin birth? What's the difference between these claims and what makes you believe one and not the others?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I find it ironic that Christians find the Islamic belief of 72 virgins in heaven ridiculous... but agree with Muslims about the virgin birth of Jesus. Oh the former is bonkers but the latter sure makes perfect sense!

    I think it's the committing suicide and killing others that we find so wrong about jihad. The 72 virgins thing is an irrelevance after that.

    Yet it was the 72 virgins you mocked. What's the intrinsic difference between this, or even God wanting suicide bombers to die as martyrs, and the virgin birth? What's the difference between these claims and what makes you believe one and not the others?

    It was merely a throwaway comment. Nothing more. No deep theological argument was intended or implied. That I leave to others. The only other thing I will say is that Christianity views Islam as a false religion, so I doubt my "joke" matters very much at all from that point of view.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I find it ironic that Christians find the Islamic belief of 72 virgins in heaven ridiculous... but agree with Muslims about the virgin birth of Jesus. Oh the former is bonkers but the latter sure makes perfect sense!

    I think it's the committing suicide and killing others that we find so wrong about jihad. The 72 virgins thing is an irrelevance after that.

    Yet it was the 72 virgins you mocked. What's the intrinsic difference between this, or even God wanting suicide bombers to die as martyrs, and the virgin birth? What's the difference between these claims and what makes you believe one and not the others?

    It was merely a throwaway comment. Nothing more. No deep theological argument was intended or implied. That I leave to others. The only other thing I will say is that Christianity views Islam as a false religion, so I doubt my "joke" matters very much at all from that point of view.

    What is a false religion? I never understood that concept. Surely once you worship a God or gods and you follow rituals and have certain rules you abide to according to your god(s)'s commandments you have a religion. How can Islam be a false one? Because they don't worship properly? Because they have the wrong god? If you say their beliefs are unjustified... sure but so are yours.

    And I know it was a throwaway line. Nevertheless it's telling that you still find that belief ridiculous yet find other unsubstantiated beliefs reasonable. Whether you like it or not that's double standards.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Double standards are the name of the game when it comes to religion, @Ludovico.
This discussion has been closed.