The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • Posts: 4,617
    @Ludovico You are using logic, you will make no progress
  • Posts: 15,125
    patb wrote: »
    @Ludovico You are using logic, you will make no progress

    I think we did make some: showing the theistic contradiction.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 4,617
    Those of faith can't see contradictions. They don't care. They can turn a blind eye to anything, as long as their faith gives them what they need.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DdZR-OtVMAA7Rn9.jpg
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited May 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Not everything in life is a joke. Calm down.
    True. Just religion.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ironic, as you're the one running away from the Truth.

    Are we to assume that the reason you've capitalised the word 'Truth' is that you are alluding to the word of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? Oh dear.

    I won't waste my time replying to that with anything meaningful as it doesn't warrant it.

    You are talking about truth. How do you assess it?

    Oh dear. We're back to the semantics class again. How tiresome.

    Not really.

    Either talking snakes exist or they don't.

    Babies either get cancer because nature is random, harsh and indiscriminate or there's an infanticidal psycho sat on a cloud causing them to have it.

    Get some new arguments. The record's broken.

    How about answering my question:

    Come on no more dodging: why are 72 virgins waiting every martyr a stupid claim, but the resurrection of Jesus legit? A is false, B is true. How do you come to this conclusion?

    Because I'm terminally stupid and no doubt mentally ill, according to the Wizard.
    if the cap fits and you feel like popping it on I'm certainly not going to intervene.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Not everything in life is a joke. Calm down.
    True. Just religion.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ironic, as you're the one running away from the Truth.

    Are we to assume that the reason you've capitalised the word 'Truth' is that you are alluding to the word of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? Oh dear.

    I won't waste my time replying to that with anything meaningful as it doesn't warrant it.

    You are talking about truth. How do you assess it?

    Oh dear. We're back to the semantics class again. How tiresome.

    Not really.

    Either talking snakes exist or they don't.

    Babies either get cancer because nature is random, harsh and indiscriminate or there's an infanticidal psycho sat on a cloud causing them to have it.

    Get some new arguments. The record's broken.

    How about answering my question:

    Come on no more dodging: why are 72 virgins waiting every martyr a stupid claim, but the resurrection of Jesus legit? A is false, B is true. How do you come to this conclusion?

    Because I'm terminally stupid and no doubt mentally ill, according to the Wizard. That's no doubt true as well. Sadly where I live one can't be sectioned at all and therefore not for holding views many now see as irrational. Happy now?

    I am not sure if you are trying to play martyr or are only trying to be sarcastic, but you are still dodging the question.

    Christ was the original martyr so I don't have to play at it.
    Could you explain what that's supposed to even mean?
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm not asking for something very difficult. In fact it's a very easy, simple question. You think the claim of 72 virgins waiting for not only false, but ridiculous. So much son that you laugh at it. So you must be pretty sure of yourself on it. But for Jesus's resurrection you consider it true and at the core of your life. You must have given this serious thought to establish that one claim is stupid and the other valid. It's not all the answers but it's one answer you must have given its importance. Why one is ridiculous and one true?
    This is an important point about religious belief.

    If, as Ludovico suggests, the religious sit down and read all the texts and digest all the evidence for and against each one wouldn't you think that there might be an even spread between religions in different territories? But no instead we see all the Christians in Europe and America and all the Muslims in the Middle East.

    Why is this if believers are intelligent people prepared to think critically and assess the evidence which, Draggers and Risico insist, is out there in overwhelming amounts?
    Why if it’s an informed decision based on careful reflection were the odds that Draggers (this isn’t a witch hunt by the way Draggers old son, merely that you are a good illustration of the point I am trying to make) living in NI would be brought up as a Muslim rather than a Christian? Thousands to one.

    The answer of course is they don’t think about it at all. They are spoon fed it by their parents at an impressionable age and then, for whatever reason, simply cannot let go of the comfort blanket.

    If the questions about evidence we ask are proving to difficult for you to answer Draggers and Risico let us rephrase it another way:

    Why don’t you believe in Islam?

    You don’t need to provide any proof of the existence of a magical deity to answer this question, merely outline what has led you to reject the tenets of Islam.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited May 2018 Posts: 4,423
    Actually, I'd been interested to hear choosing one religion over another.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I knew a guy who went from buddhism to satanism to islam.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I'd be a Buddhist in another life.
  • Posts: 15,125
    patb wrote: »
    Those of faith can't see contradictions. They don't care. They can turn a blind eye to anything, as long as their faith gives them what they need.

    I know... still worth asking. And still waiting for an answer @Dragonpol ...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And still waiting for an answer @Dragonpol ...
    Hope you bought some sandwiches, a sleeping bag and a Thermos of Bovril to keep you sustained - it's going to be a long night.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And still waiting for an answer @Dragonpol ...
    Hope you bought some sandwiches, a sleeping bag and a Thermos of Bovril to keep you sustained - it's going to be a long night.

    Oh man last time I had Bovril I thought it was vile! I might just check in tomorrow morning.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And still waiting for an answer @Dragonpol ...
    Hope you bought some sandwiches, a sleeping bag and a Thermos of Bovril to keep you sustained - it's going to be a long night.

    Oh man last time I had Bovril I thought it was vile! I might just check in tomorrow morning.
    How was your night time vigil old chap? Any sign of the Truth forthcoming? I guess not.

    Well get yourself off home for some rest and I’ll do the day shift. See you back here in 12 hours.

    #waitingforanswers
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And still waiting for an answer @Dragonpol ...
    Hope you bought some sandwiches, a sleeping bag and a Thermos of Bovril to keep you sustained - it's going to be a long night.

    Oh man last time I had Bovril I thought it was vile! I might just check in tomorrow morning.
    How was your night time vigil old chap? Any sign of the Truth forthcoming? I guess not.

    Well get yourself off home for some rest and I’ll do the day shift. See you back here in 12 hours.

    #waitingforanswers

    Currently at London zoo with wife and son. Marveling at some wonders of evolution.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Oh dear. You mug. Animals were put here by God.

    If evolution is true where are all the half fish-half lizards and half apes-half men?

    And how could something as complex as an eye ‘evolve’?

    Intelligent design is your answer mate.

    The truth is out there if you just took time to educate yourself.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    And how could something as complex as an eye ‘evolve’?

    Did you know the human eye could only see colour for the last 20 000 years or so? The first people to talk about what they saw were probably considered bonkers.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 2018 Posts: 18,281

    And how could something as complex as an eye ‘evolve’?

    Did you know the human eye could only see colour for the last 20 000 years or so? The first people to talk about what they saw were probably considered bonkers.

    It must've been like that time in 1967 when BBC 2 started broadcasting in colour.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dragonpol wrote: »

    And how could something as complex as an eye ‘evolve’?

    Did you know the human eye could only see colour for the last 20 000 years or so? The first people to talk about what they saw were probably considered bonkers.

    It must've been like that time in 1967 when BBC 2 started broadcasting in colour.

    I remember when Norwegian tv did the same, but we only had a B/W tv set. Hard to believe, there was no proof.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dragonpol wrote: »

    And how could something as complex as an eye ‘evolve’?

    Did you know the human eye could only see colour for the last 20 000 years or so? The first people to talk about what they saw were probably considered bonkers.

    It must've been like that time in 1967 when BBC 2 started broadcasting in colour.

    I remember when Norwegian tv did the same, but we only had a B/W tv set. Hard to believe, there was no proof.

    Just like this thread for the non-believers then. Against the odds you tied it in there, Thundy!
  • Posts: 15,125
    @TheWizardOfIce The eye argument fallacy actually played a role in my deconversion.

    @Dragonpol Since you're back care to answer my question?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 2018 Posts: 18,281
    I'm afraid I'm rather disinclined to respond to such baited questions any more in this thread. I should have stayed away. There's a certain agenda at work from the other side of the debate. Being constantly mocked and scoffed at for holding certain beliefs becomes very wearing over time. It's not a respectful discourse.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'm afraid I'm rather disinclined to respond to such baited questions any more in this thread. I should have stayed away. There's a certain agenda at work from the other side of the debate.

    Baited question? How in the world can it be baited? It's a straight and honest question requiring a straight and honest answer! And it's an easy one too. From your way of dodging it then simply retreating I'd say that you have simply not even thought things through and has accepted the tenants of your faith without questioning their validity beforehand. Something you are capable of doing as long as it comes to other beliefs.

    And what agenda are you implying I have?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 2018 Posts: 18,281
    All the questions from the Atheist side are baited. The agenda is to make anyone with religious beliefs feel silly and childish. It comes through very clearly in the way you and the other two of the Triumvirate write posts in this thread. There's no need to play the innocent all of a sudden.
  • Posts: 15,125
    How is my question in essence baited? You're giving us intentions to avoid answering it. I do find religions silly and childish, but so do you... as long as it's not the Christian faith. It's called a double standard.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 2018 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How is my question in essence baited? You're giving us intentions to avoid answering it. I do find religions silly and childish, but so do you... as long as it's not the Christian faith. It's called a double standard.

    Well, let me say I am very ashamed at having poked fun at Islam and I wish to rescind those comments. It was wrong of me to do that and I'm sorry if it caused you or others any offence. I made the joke without really thinking it through but have been hauled over the hot coals ever since. Hopefully this post will draw a line under that matter at the very least.

    I do think also that I have nothing of any further use to add to this thread (and possibly this community more generally) and that I should cease posting until I have something worthy to say. I'm not intellectual enough to have these kind of debates and have been outclassed at every turn. One has to know when to stop with something and call it a day and now seems like the right time. No doubt others more worthy will fill the void in time.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 9,847


    While you all are stumbling in the dark here is another video from Dr William Craig


    And Wizard and the rest set you clocks by this time tomorrow you will have the reasons I believe
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 15,125
    Forget mining videos of William Lane Craig (who by the way says or at least said evolution and Christianity are compatible) or other apologists @Risico007 . Bring us your own arguments. Whatever you have left.

    @Dragonpol I do not want to rub it in but... Not long ago you were laughing about the 72 virgins promise now while not saying it's valid you deem it as... plausible? I will not ask what made you change your mind and I found nothing offensive in the mockery, I just wished you and others would apply the same logic and the same critical thinking towards all extraordinary claims. And maybe the same irony while we are at it.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 9,847
    Oh trust me it will be my own arguments not a single YouTube video to be found

    And I intend to make fun of other religions as much as I can didn’t Hugh Hefner say if he got to Heaven he would make sure there wouldn’t be a single virgin left.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    Dr William Lane Craig. So it's comedy hour again.

    Well, no better way to counter a YT video than with another YT video.



    This is Dr Craig proven logically flawed in 11 minutes.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Good old syllogism. Eager to see what YouTube retort @Risico007 will provide for that one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    Dr William Lane Craig. So it's comedy hour again.

    Well, no better way to counter a YT video than with another YT video.



    This is Dr Craig proven logically flawed in 11 minutes.
This discussion has been closed.