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There's enough to safely say Julius Caesar and Alexander existed. But for even such widely documented historical figures there are things that were fabricated or that you can be seriously skeptical about. Caesar may never have been epileptic for instance. As for King Arthur do you think he existed and that the legend that has his name is actually historical?
So why don’t you believe in Islam then? Plenty of people blowing themselves up every day because it is ‘a fact for them’.
Actually instead of flailing around with your ‘historical’ proofs just you believing in God should be enough to convert us as ‘it is a fact’ for you.
That should be all we need, but thankfully most of mankind don’t set the proof threshold quite as low as you otherwise the world would be in a real state. Even Tony Blair had to rustle up a sexed up dossier; it wasn’t enough to invade Iraq just because ‘it was a fact’ for him
Holding a mirror up to our own weaknesses as a species is very hard but its a sign of self awarness, strength and intelect. (as with individuals). If we can gain a better undertanding of this and help to deal with it, it provides great opportunities to rid ourselves of the fairy tales and make much better progress in almost all walks of life.
One of the things we can do is look to countries where atheists is expanding rapidly and work out why this is and can these lessons be applied to other areas of the World that are bogged down in their own fairy tales and blowing themselves up in a competition re whose fairy tale is the best
- how something feels to you, no matter how strong the feelings;
- what other people say, no matter how convincing they may or may not sound;
never counts as proof.
But is religion that much different to anything else we believe in?
We may believe our country is the finest on earth, but that doesn't mean it is.
Why should we believe in invisible lines that separate one country from another? They don't really exist, but we believe in them all the same.
A catholic believes in the son of God, a Muslim will believe something different (I seriously don't know or care what) but why should they need to prove the existence of their God to satisfy a non believer?
They say a gun isn't deadly. It's the person pulling the trigger who is dangerous. Well, surely then God isn't dangerous, it's the guy who straps a bomb to his vest in God's name who is dangerous.
If all religion ended tomorrow, the nut job who screamed 'Allah be praised' as he killed a bunch of kids would come up with a new reason to kill those kids. He wouldn't change.
He doesn't really need belief in his God to be mentally unstable.
.
And I wont post a link but there are some horrible videos on Youtube of atheists stoning woman to death.
So, do you think a no religion society will catapult these nutjobs into a life of peace and brotherhood of man?
You are correct, sir. The religious don't need proof. That's not my point either. My point is that @Risico007 claims he has "proof" that God is real and that Jesus walked after dying. My post was merely meant to demonstrate that he "feels" like God exists and he believes what others say regarding a resurrected Jesus, but that neither counts a proof.
I hope this clarifies things. :)
Heard so often "these suicide bombers are not true Muslims" etc etc.
The reason I ask is Darth Dimi saidif he saw god it would be eyewitness testimony and considered evidence.... but the 11 disciples who did see th risen lord are viewed as nut jobs because atheist love being hypocritics?
Actually the Islamists and suicide bombers are not mentally ill. Or at least no more than someone who believes in transubstantiation or... the Virgin birth. A non religious society would not solve every issue we have as a species nor would it protect us from madmen and criminals of all sorts. It would however eliminate one point of irrationality that triggers and feed violence, exploitation, oppression and ignorance. I don't believe in utopias. I do think one can strive to create the best possible society.
Also when you mention the "belief" in frontiers, you are confusing the definition: the delimitation of a country exist through consent and consensus. They are man made realities. To compare countries to God is a huge false equivalence.
Yes I do keep reading your claims of false equivalence Ludo. It can't be the answer to everything.
Borders are man made, but they aren't realities. You can't see the borders anymore than you can see God.
Both are creations of man.
I used the term 'nutjobs' because I've seen it used enough times to describe people who kill indiscriminately. I simply can't see that a world without Gods will improve our situation. America will still have school massacres, Muslims (as are) in some parts of the world will still find reasons to decapitate women who have been raped, politicians will still find reasons to fight wars, both legal and illegal.
And I don't think it would 'eliminate one point of irrationality that triggers and feed violence', because those who trigger that violence would find something else to commit the crime in the name of.
Actually no it would not be considered evidence. Personal experience never is by itself. @DarthDimi could see God appearing in his back garden and none of us would be justified to believe it is true. I might think he's sincere (or drunk) but our belief would not be justified. Heck I would meet God personally and would not expect anyone to believe in God (or the god I personally met) based on my testimony alone.
Indeed it does.
So then if eyewitnes testimony and of course observable evidence is garbage then how can we be honestly sure of anything after all the twin towers could still be standing world war 2 could of been “invented”
I could go on but if we are ignoring eyewitness testimony then a fundamental element of science and history is basically thrown out the window
Darth I plead with you get your atheist brethren in line as we have now crossed the threshold where observable evidence and eyewitness are pointless
In that instance you did a false equivalence: frontiers have no physical existence beyond consensus but they "exist" for all purposes. The theist's claim is that their God or gods exist not merely as concepts but as realities or even transcending reality irrespective of man.
As for eliminating religion I think it would be good in and of itself (although I understand that is pretty utopic). If we find a cure to cancer, other diseases will exist but that doesn't mean we should give up on it.
It would be too hard to show the large amount of studies that prove religion specifically Christianity actually is better for humanity but this video does the work for me
The problem with religion and its place in the 21st century is that, illogical as it all seems, it works for a lot of people. I don't just mean that it offers comfort to people, but it offers the only means of escape for some people, it gives a lot of elderly people somewhere to go, people to meet, things to do.
Assuming atheists (of which I am one btw) could rid the world of religion, what happens to those who need it? What do you intend to do for them?
@NicNac Name me one positive thing that religion can do that cannot be achieved by secular means. Who needs religion and only religion to be happy? I don't think it can be eliminated from the world but IF it did through education and by having everyone becoming atheist... then who would still need religion? And by the way there's elderly who are atheists.
Whether these things can be achieved by secular means is not for me to decide. So far I can't see anyone doing anything to try and replace these small, comforting gatherings prior to the revolution.
Elderly non believers are welcome to stay at home.
Hmm, is god a pervert? Or is @Ludovico a willing participant?
So... an atheist cannot serve cakes, coffee, tea, organize parties and so on? Or at least you are not sure we can. Why not? Or you mean only on Sundays?
Don't take it the wrong way but that is laughable. It takes faith to bake cupcakes now? Or explain to me what you meant with your post.
Well allegedly he showed himself to Moses in the form of a burning bush...
Shame that #MeToo didn't exist back in the day.
What would be evidence for you
Well God showing up in the sky for everyone to see surrounded by angels and saints would be a good start. I'd say that would be pretty compelling even. Maybe give a press conference while he's here.
God did come down from heaven 1st century AD not my fault you weren’t there