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No what's barbaric is that people actually want to deny women something that should be a basic human right. They might have ended up in that situation through no fault of their own (would you deny a rape victim the chance to get rid of it?) or even if it is just a case of a couple chancing it and it backfiring, maybe they're just not ready and wouldn't be able to give a kid the life they deserve. Giving into our natural urges is unavoidable and unplanned pregnancies happen. Since science has progressed to the point where we can do something about it, it should be an option for those that want/need it. The baby is nothing at that point. It isn't alive. Hence the cutoff point of however many weeks it is. It's preventing a life from starting, not taking it away.
If we follow your logic why draw the line there? Isn't protected sex or having a wank killing innocents? It's all potential life isn't it?
I think I've been kinder to religion than most on this thread but I think this is one of those things where you just need to accept that we're in a much different, more civilised, progressive and advanced world than the one your faith came from. You've got no right to try and shame women out of life choices because of what a book from thousands of years ago says.
There is no point in existing if you don’t believe that you are an integral part of God’s plan and will go and live with him in heaven for eternity. Certainly a new low even by your limbo dancer levels of logic.
By the same token if your life only has meaning because of your devotion to God and the promise of eternal life why don’t you hang yourself tomorrow and go and join the Lord in heaven?
The church will desperately try to block a woman’s right to decide what happens to her own body but vigoursously defend paedo priests.
As long as you just bugger them in the vestry rather than kill them it’s all good is it old son?Good to see the church’s position on how to treat the innocent being clarified by our resident theologian.
As you'll be in the illustrious company of the Sinn Féin leadership (who just yesterday were holding the placard "THE NORTH IS NEXT"), how could the pro-Abortion side lose?
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fin-calling-for-referendum-on-united-ireland-following-abortion-vote-36951126.html
And I've no plans to go elsewhere. This is my home and it will remain so while I live. To be honest, I no longer care too much about such controversial issues. It's really none of my business how other people wish to live their lives. People will do what they do regardless.
Of course, yet again, you try to paint me as something I am not as it more easily fits your stereotypical take on a Northern Ireland citizen.
You know what murder should be legal too because why not ...
Women having the right to be judge jury and executioner is perfect
Again the murder of every life should be allowed because screw future poets doctors politicians peace makers screw their chance for a life women should decide if a person can live or not
He doesn t know that, nor do you.
It isn't a person yet. Why is that so hard to understand. If we follow your logic then every time any of us have protected sex or wank we're all playing "judge jury and executioner" (and if you somehow manage to abstain from those until you're old and responsible enough to be a dad, you'll have ended up murdering a good few kiddies in your sleep by then).
Regardless of what one thinks about abortion, you're very clearly equating things that are not the same at all. It's a nonsense to say that actually. It's the false equivalence at work again.
It's an exaggeration sure but you get my point. There's potential for life in sperm just as there's potential for life in the feoutus, but it isn't fully formed is it, it isn't conscious. I know there's been a lot of debate about whether the cut off point should be lowered, but I think denying women that right entirely is really messed up.
Unplanned pregnancies are always going to happen. Even contraception can fail. It's not the woman's fault, and that's especially true if the sex wasn't consenual (something @Risico007 happily ignored when he was labelling the all the women who've been there as barbaric murderers). If they're not ready and don't think they'd be able to give baby the life it deserves then I think they deserve the right to terminate it before it's too late.
There's adoption sure and that's an equally valid option. But if a woman would rather not go through the physical and mental strain of carrying and delivering a baby she doesn't even want, I can understand that as well.
I agree, and the sad part is it would be less of a crap situation if there weren't such a stigma around it. I think with stuff like this though we will get there eventually. Great news from Ireland the other day.
Post of the day. Although made me feel a bit guilty. In my time I guess I'm the Pol Pot of mass spermicide.
Obviously using your 'logic' (although I'm getting more and more concerned about the trades descriptions act knocking on my door when using that word to describe your increasingly fatuous posts) all aborted foetuses would of course have grown up to be Nobel prize winners. One notes you don't mention all the serial killers, paedos, dole scroungers and genocidal dictators.
Also where does a tapeworm fit on your scale? Is a woman allowed to be 'judge, jury and executioner' over that? It is one of God's creatures after all so what right does she have to kill it? What about a cancerous tumour? That is just a collection of living cells and is just as sentient as a freshly fertilised egg and presumably God in his eternal wisdom caused it to grow 'for a reason'. Is the woman allowed to have that cut out or not? Or is she better off praying?
Would John Hurt be allowed to abort the alien before it bursts out of his chest I wonder?No doubt, because he's a man, he would as we all know the real reason the religious lose their shit over this is not because of caring about the sanctity of life (they are all more than happy to slaughter fully grown adults by the bucketload after all) but because women being in charge of their own lives terrifies them for some reason.
Come to think of it I've committed some of my worst crimes against humanity killing innocent little sperms when the woman has taken charge!
Quite. Has he gone full on Taliban now?
Interesting to note that @Risico007 can make offensive comments like that about half of the population but if I call his religion laughable and utter bullshit it's me the law will come after because I am not 'respecting his beliefs.'
If we carry on with this then what about failed attempts? Finishing inside a girl doesn't guarantee she'll get pregnant. So lets say there's a good Christian man who's never had any sexual experience with another person or by himself, and despite that has never had a wet dream. He saves himself until marriage and then on the wedding night him and his wife consumate it to try and start a family. But it doesn't happen that time, the test comes back negative. It might not be an intentional murder but surely we should be trying him for manslaughter?
Then a man kills millions of innocents every time he ejaculates. See that's the problem when you know jack about biology and you want to dictate a woman's right to dispose of her body.
The only way to stop yourself being a murderer is by pledging yourself to God and taking a vow of celibacy.
Given my circumstances no. Given other circumstances...
....what have I just read?
With millions of couples who can’t concieve a child but want to wouldn’t it be smarter instead of abortion to take the preborn children out of the women who don’t want them and put them into women who do? Again it would basically make everyone happy
No deaths
No women having to put their bodies through things they don’t want to
But I am the crazy religious guy so don’t listen to me continue to live in a black and white world
Yep and don't worry no one is mate.
Have I had a stroke?
So it’s not barbaric to kill millions innocent and it is barbaric to find ways to make everyone happy
Shall we make euthanasia legal as well?
It is in mine too. Oops.
I was thinking about it last night and the debate on abortion is peripheral to the one about God: one can be an atheist and be against abortion and one can believe in God and be all for it. Although it is true that many religious organizations such as the Catholic Church not only oppose abortion but lobby against it. And completely disregarded women's need and biology.
Nah bollocks to that. Better to let sentient beings die in hideous agony and with no dignity like the all loving Lord intended when he kindly gave them motor neurone disease or Alzheimer’s. It’s the blobs of cells with no consciousness that we should be fighting for.
Such a shame as you were on a roll.
So, in my opinion, women should have the final say regarding their unborn children.
It should be up to the person imo. If I was suffering from something incurable and had exhausted all treatment options but was only getting worse, then in all honesty sorting my affairs out saying goodbye to my loved ones and heading over to Dignitas with my immediate family sounds preferrable to hanging around and turning into a husk of myself. But why should I have to fork out to see myself off so far from home? Wouldn't it be fairer to do it in the comfort of my own country surrounded by as many of my loved ones as possible without risking them getting nicked for it afterwards?
Although, I can stop by @DarthDimi's place. Any good euthanasia clinics near you old boy? That'd be a great send off. Having a few beers with Dimi then off to "the Clinic" to say goodbye to this mortal world, instead of having to "live" like a zombie.
Seriously if it was scientifically possible to remove a fetus from a woman who doesn’t want it to one who does I challenge anyone to find the issue with that everyone is happy