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Ever heard of Original Sin? Christians believe we are all born sinners, due to the Fall of Man. That's the theology.
Presumably you subscribe to this in a metaphorical rather than literal sense? Anyone who believes in a literal Adam and Eve should be in Broadmoor.
But 1)it never happened, 2)it's immoral to blame someone for the bad actions of a parent or an ancestor, 3)God's actions in the Fall of Man are at best highly questionable, 4)if sin was imposed like this on mankind then we're not to blame for it as we have no free will over it, 5)atonement for sins through Jesus' sacrifice is amoral, 6)etc.
But point 1 should be enough.
Well, it's open to interpretation. Apparently some churches now leave the whole Adam and Eve bit out. I'll leave it at that.
Don't see how you can only believe it metaphorically.
Original Sin is Eve's disgraceful action of eating an apple.
Thus if you believe in Original Sin exists you must believe the story of Adam & Eve is literal not allegorical (a favourite bolt hole for the religious when the bible is exposed as being ludicrous). And if you believe in Adam & Eve you therefore must believe that dinosaurs, the formation of the planets and the Big Bang never happened as the creation myth only takes 7 days and if you trace the lineage of Adam & Eve you allegedly (these are Creationist calculations bear in mind so I accept no responsibility for them being utter bolocks) arrive at the earth only being around 6000 years old. And if you believe all this? @RC7's assertion therefore that you belong in Broadmoor must also be true.
And that's religion in a nutshell.
We know now that the entire Genesis (just like most of the Bible really) is fabricated and had no historical reality. The jury's in, so is the verdict, the fat woman sang, that's a dead duck, and so on and so forth. Mainstream churches, such as the Catholic Church and the Church of England know they lost that battle a long time ago and acknowledge that the whole Fall of Man thing did not happen. So they say it was metaphorical or whatever.
Well, I believe in it, but many don't obviously. I've kind of created a virtual reality Broadmoor here to contain everyone interested in this in the one thread.
If only science had the option to just discard anything that was a bit of an inconvenient obstacle to proving your hypothesis we'd have nails cold fusion and interstellar travel years ago.
Yes, just like how we don't talk about global warming now. It's the Adam and Eve of science, that. They call it climate change now. They don't like to talk about it.
You still don't seem to have grasped the idea that Science and Religion serve different functions within society. Keep holding Religion to a scientific standard if you must, but it's no different than holding Science to a Religious standard.
What you on about, mate? I'm halfway to Jupiter and I did it just by believing I could.
What you don't seem to have grasped is that they're granted equal stature. Which is utter nonsense. Science is the search for truth. Religion is the suppression of truth.
What does that even mean? Religion should be held to some standards, very simple one: to prove anyone of its claims. That God exists (that would be a start), that he asks us to behave in such ways, that he is actually wise, etc.
It doesn't fall on Religion to prove God exists. That's not the point of Religion.
****Irony Alert****
I don't know mate. You're the one who believes the earth is only 6000 years old so I defer to your judgement.
What is the point of religion exactly? I'd really love to know.
Social cohesion mostly.
I haven't given my views on that, so let's not second guess them here.
You're welcome to give them here. How old do you think it is?
I refer you to your post below:
Unless you believe in Original Sin but not Adam & Eve which seems to me impossible because without Adam & Eve scrumping for apples behind God's back there can be no Original Sin.
And once you believe in Adam & Eve you're on extremely shakey ground as regards the age of the earth.
I really don't know. Older than 6000 years anyway. I believe dates and days were simplified in Genesis so ordinary people could understand it easier. Thjey are not necessarily to be taken in a literal sense. Hence,
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
I'm not pinning you to a date, but when you say more than 6000 are we taking tens, hundreds, or millions?
Evidence?
Strange how some bits of the bible were simplified and allegorical and other bits are completely true.
How does one tell the difference? Because in my 15 years of being a practicing Catholic they never provided me with a handy pocket guide to which bits of the bible I should believe as fact.
A colour coded Bible would be good wth the true bits in one colour and the metaphors in another.
If you can turn the history of the Cosmos into 6 days, then its really open season regarding everything else.
Actually if you make a claim you should demonstrate it.
Adam and Eve, the Flood, the Resurrection all true and literal. Giving everything to the poor: metaphor.
Or as Not A Stamp Collector said: what is metaphor is a metaphor what is not is not.
This.
Yes, I'd love to know that too.
Religion, always bullshitting their way out of the harsh truth when it hits it in the face. First, people were hanged, humiliated and burned for fighting the literary interpretation; then, the magical realisation it's all symbolism and metaphor and whatnot.
And if that doesn't help, there's always the "feeling". That one always works. "I cannot seem to make it agree with simple mathematics, basic physics and evolutionary biology, but it's this feeling that I have and ..."
@Mendes4Lyfe, I think it's fair to say you're a bit out of depth in these discussions. The reason why atheists harp on about religion not fitting a scientific model is because big heads in religion assert asinine ideas like creationism and the idea that earth is only 6,000 years old and want those theories to replace the factual teachings of evolution and a study of superposition and the fossil record that uses evidence (key word here) to support those realities in schools and universities. See the issue there, or do I need to go on?
The science vs religion fight isn't just one of faith vs, evidence, it's about defending the propagation of truth. When people want an ancient book written before even middle aged science principles came about to explain how our world works in place of the hard work of scientists who actually do experiments to uncover the truth, we have to fight against that encroachment. Why would we consciously bend to a religious community that will make our kids stupid and dulled to critical thinking every generation, when the cold hard data of science disproves all of the faithful who treat the bible as a historical and scientific account of the past? Tell me, what would you rather be taught in school: the myth that God created earth in a week, or that our universe is composed of millions of years of complex and ongoing development on both a macro and micro scale that is backed up by evidence? Come on, now.
@Mendes4Lyfe, you actually think religion's purpose is social cohesion? Shall we ask the burned and exiled scientists of history who disproved the wrongfulness of the churches how cohesive their societies were to them? What of the gay community, which has been targeted with hate by the religious order from marriage on down in human rights by that cohesive and all-embracing bible full of hard edged homophobia? And what of the women punished for Eve's sin, or those raped and/or stoned with inhumanity and oppressed by religions to this day all over the world?
Religion is nothing but a warm blanket for those unable to or unwilling to comprehend a life that wasn't egotistically created for them by a supreme being who promises riches in heaven if you meet his steep and contradictory demands. There's an inherent lack of reality and honesty in religion that should be halted or minimized to preserve our species and what is left of the gene pool, and all the pain and suffering the bible and other religious texts have created on top of it. Cohesion my ass.