Black & White Bond- How Would the 60s Films Be Assessed/Experienced if they Arrived a Decade Early?

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Going with those thoughts, @ToTheRight, the clown costume in OCTOPUSSY would take on a seriousness adding to the suspense. And the bear's head in ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE would shock me out of my seat.

    True. I imagine the early sequence of the clown suited 009 being stalked in the woods would be pretty creepy in black and white.

    I'll have to eventually convert all the Bond films to monochrome, just to see how they feel in black and white. I feel like this is the kind of discussion that could go beyond just the 60s and early 70s films.
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 17,756
    But the examples I like are those you mention, where the hero and villain are switched color-wise, and it's the eventual baddie in white and the hero in dark. It is not only a very interesting visual, but makes a nice and refreshing moral statement too. I'm my writing on Bond I've reviewed Thunderball and touched on just that example you name, and how interesting it was for Young and company to decide to play the scene that way. It not only fits the character of Largo, but also gives us a kernel of theme to chew on as the script is flipped.

    It very much recalls old Hollywood productions, like how Casablanca places the ultimate cynic Rick Blaine in a white dinner jacket long before he grows noble. In that case the script is again flipped, as the filmmakers aren't trying to trick us by dressing a villain as a hero, but are instead telegraphing to us that the dark man will ultimately embrace the pure color of the hero that he dons and earn the title through selfless sacrifice.
    Rick Blaine in Casablanca is a great example! Will have to check out a few B/W films for more examples, I think.

    This morning, looking through those DN frames again, I noticed that none of them included a full image of Dr. No himself in that white nehru jacket, which make a good contrast to the brown one Bond is wearing. Would be interesting to see.

    In an opposite example, Bond is wearing a white suit in the first meeting between himself and Kamal Khan. That, along with the clown suited 009 (as mentioned above), could make some interesting movie stills from a film which is a bit humour heavy.

    For fun, I took a screenshot from the scene with 009 at the embassy (the close up with him dropping the Fabergé egg on the floor), and did a B/W adjustment similar to the one's you posted - and it looked very dramatic indeed. Be sure to look out for that scene in particular if you do the same treatment with frames from OP!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, we should definitely try that. I've been itching for a reason to do something like that.
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 684
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 -- absolutely a luxury to be able to more faithfully imagine the experience from the Color -> B&W direction instead of having to attempt it the other way around.
    For fun, I took a screenshot from the scene with 009 at the embassy (the close up with him dropping the Fabergé egg on the floor), and did a B/W adjustment similar to the one's you posted - and it looked very dramatic indeed. Be sure to look out for that scene in particular if you do the same treatment with frames from OP!

    Got likewise curious myself earlier, except I watched the scene. Brought it into VLC, desaturated, boosted the contrast. (I also set the frame for a 4:3 crop just to get an extra bit of academy ratio fun going on). Good call on that scene, @RichardTheBruce and @ToTheRight! Very atmospheric and the absence of color certainly works in its favor.

    It's got me thinking -- if we aren't limiting ourselves to just the early films which might have found themselves in black and white, I wonder which of all the films would most benefit from black and white. FRWL is certainly, I think, the best early candidate. But if we're expanding ourselves, OP is right up there.

    Brady's suggestion of doing a B&W community watch is definitely a good one! The films are sure to get reassessed in the process.
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 17,756
    Strog wrote: »
    Got likewise curious myself earlier, except I watched the scene. Brought it into VLC, desaturated, boosted the contrast. (I also set the frame for a 4:3 crop just to get an extra bit of academy ratio fun going on).

    Care to share the VLC desaturation process? Would be fun to try it out with a couple of films. :-)
  • Posts: 684
    Strog wrote: »
    Got likewise curious myself earlier, except I watched the scene. Brought it into VLC, desaturated, boosted the contrast. (I also set the frame for a 4:3 crop just to get an extra bit of academy ratio fun going on).

    Care to share the VLC desaturation process? Would be fun to try it out with a couple of films. :-)
    Sure! VLC is great. Just plop the disc into your computer, load it through VLC. Once the film starts playing, pause it, go to Tools -> Effects and Filters. Click on the Video Effects tab, make sure Image adjust is checked. Turn the saturation slider all the way down to the left. Optionally, you can also slightly boost the contrast (b&w film stock) in the same panel. You won't have to adjust it much -- too much will make it too dark, but it definitely makes things pop. You'll probably end up getting a slight bit of video noise from this, but (especially if you're using the overly-clean Lowry DVDs like me) just squint a bit and it'll look like you've added proper film grain back in. :P

    And if you want the 4:3 crop for fun, that's under the Video -> Crop on the main menu.
  • Posts: 17,756
    Strog wrote: »
    Strog wrote: »
    Got likewise curious myself earlier, except I watched the scene. Brought it into VLC, desaturated, boosted the contrast. (I also set the frame for a 4:3 crop just to get an extra bit of academy ratio fun going on).

    Care to share the VLC desaturation process? Would be fun to try it out with a couple of films. :-)
    Sure! VLC is great. Just plop the disc into your computer, load it through VLC. Once the film starts playing, pause it, go to Tools -> Effects and Filters. Click on the Video Effects tab, make sure Image adjust is checked. Turn the saturation slider all the way down to the left. Optionally, you can also slightly boost the contrast (b&w film stock) in the same panel. You won't have to adjust it much -- too much will make it too dark, but it definitely makes things pop. You'll probably end up getting a slight bit of video noise from this, but (especially if you're using the overly-clean Lowry DVDs like me) just squint a bit and it'll look like you've added proper film grain back in. :P

    And if you want the 4:3 crop for fun, that's under the Video -> Crop on the main menu.

    Ah, wonderful! Will have to check that out. There are plenty of scenes that could be entertaining and interesting to see in B/W. Perhaps it even can make the Beach Boys/snowboarding sequence in AVTAK look more dramatic than fun? :-D
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    But the examples I like are those you mention, where the hero and villain are switched color-wise, and it's the eventual baddie in white and the hero in dark. It is not only a very interesting visual, but makes a nice and refreshing moral statement too. I'm my writing on Bond I've reviewed Thunderball and touched on just that example you name, and how interesting it was for Young and company to decide to play the scene that way. It not only fits the character of Largo, but also gives us a kernel of theme to chew on as the script is flipped.

    It very much recalls old Hollywood productions, like how Casablanca places the ultimate cynic Rick Blaine in a white dinner jacket long before he grows noble. In that case the script is again flipped, as the filmmakers aren't trying to trick us by dressing a villain as a hero, but are instead telegraphing to us that the dark man will ultimately embrace the pure color of the hero that he dons and earn the title through selfless sacrifice.

    This morning, looking through those DN frames again, I noticed that none of them included a full image of Dr. No himself in that white nehru jacket, which make a good contrast to the brown one Bond is wearing. Would be interesting to see.

    @Torgeirtrap, your wish is my command:

    http://i.imgur.com/GwLsoB5.jpg
    Strog wrote: »
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 -- absolutely a luxury to be able to more faithfully imagine the experience from the Color -> B&W direction instead of having to attempt it the other way around.
    For fun, I took a screenshot from the scene with 009 at the embassy (the close up with him dropping the Fabergé egg on the floor), and did a B/W adjustment similar to the one's you posted - and it looked very dramatic indeed. Be sure to look out for that scene in particular if you do the same treatment with frames from OP!

    Got likewise curious myself earlier, except I watched the scene. Brought it into VLC, desaturated, boosted the contrast. (I also set the frame for a 4:3 crop just to get an extra bit of academy ratio fun going on). Good call on that scene, @RichardTheBruce and @ToTheRight! Very atmospheric and the absence of color certainly works in its favor.

    It's got me thinking -- if we aren't limiting ourselves to just the early films which might have found themselves in black and white, I wonder which of all the films would most benefit from black and white. FRWL is certainly, I think, the best early candidate. But if we're expanding ourselves, OP is right up there.

    Brady's suggestion of doing a B&W community watch is definitely a good one! The films are sure to get reassessed in the process.

    @Strog, I actually am now planning on translating all the rest of the movies to black and white here as a fun exercise to see which look the best in that presentation. I think we'll spend a bit more time discussing the 60s films and the overall effect of the method on the movies, but then I'll probably move era by era to see what black and white does to the images. I really look forward to doing it with the 70s Moore films and the Craig movies, as they are all full of some wicked shots.

    I also think using @Creasy47's black and white Bondathon as another community wide event would be great. A few of us watched the movies in order a short time ago and are now reading all the Fleming novels through, but after that such a project would be a fun and inventive way to experience the films like we've never done it before.
  • Posts: 17,756

    Sweet! Joseph Wiseman looks like an interesting noir-villain in this one. The set design looks stunning to, even though in this case I would say something is lost without the colour.
    @Strog, I actually am now planning on translating all the rest of the movies to black and white here as a fun exercise to see which look the best in that presentation. I think we'll spend a bit more time discussing the 60s films and the overall effect of the method on the movies, but then I'll probably move era by era to see what black and white does to the images. I really look forward to doing it with the 70s Moore films and the Craig movies, as they are all full of some wicked shots.

    The 70's will be just as interesting as the 60's if you ask me. Just think of it: The eerie mood of LALD one could think would be even more present in a B/W presentation. Moore's scenes with Christopher Lee in Scaramanga's Funhouse in TMWTGG likewise. TSWLM has so many great locations, and a terrifying henchman in Jaws - who can also look just as scary in the back alley scenes during the Rio Carnival in MR. B/W Bond in space? Looking forward to that too!

    The 80's and the 90's can be the odd ones, perhaps? I would think FYEO would look at least as serious as it is at times. OP has some dark, tense moments too. What about AVTAK? Beach Boys/snowboarding sequence aside, I would love to see the San Francisco scenes in B/W. The Golden Gate Bridge scene? I think that could look great!

    I guess the seriousness of Dalton would suit a B/W treatment wonderfully, but perhaps in a bit strange way too, with the late 80's style and all. And how would the 90's look like? Brosnan i B/W? I think we may be up for some surprises there!
  • Posts: 16,169
    I would think Dalton's intro shot would look pretty cool in black and white. I could see Dalton transported to the golden age era -especially in The Rocketeer. He has a matinee idol look similar to the younger Laurence Olivier or Errol Flynn. Had Dalton been around in the 30's or 40's I imagine he'd be a swashbuckler.
    I think ferris Wheel scenes in black and white may be pretty striking- looking similar to The Third Man.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Torgeirtrap, @ToTheRight, I think The Living Daylights will look amazing in black & white. I can already picture that frame of Dalton's eyes going wide in shadow as he spots Kara, or that shot in the desert where all the men on horses speed off as the sun takes over the frame. And then there's all the great stuff in Vienna at the fair. I look forward to adapting that one.
  • Posts: 16,169
    I'd have to say addressing the clothes again, Dalton's attire in TLD would probably work marvelously for black and white. Especially the beige jacket/ slacks outfit.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd have to say addressing the clothes again, Dalton's attire in TLD would probably work marvelously for black and white. Especially the beige jacket/ slacks outfit.

    You're right. He's usually in very dark colors, as is the case for LTK as well. The minor times he wears lighter fabrics would be a nice contrast, but wouldn't be overdone.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    In the weeks ahead I think I may run through the Moore films and while watching them think of which frames would look interesting in black & white and translate some to monochrome to see how they feel as I've done with the 60s films. I will probably move from Dalton to Brosnan and on to Craig as I go, just to complete the set.

    To bump the discussion I've looked through Diamonds Are Forever and assembled some black & white frames from the film that I feel best realized the mood it could have if it were translated to a monochromatic presentation:

    http://imgur.com/a/hPNYu

    I view the movie as a noir with James Bond in it, so I naturally tried to select shots that really spoke to that identity I see in the movie and the noir aesthetic of heavy shadows and the imagery of fedoras, gunmen, femme fatales, sex and murder that were so much a part of that era in filmmaking that instantly makes us think of the 40s.

    I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts on how they feel the black & white changes the movie in comparison to the full color, and how it would've been experienced or assessed in that style of presentation.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 17,756
    I am loving this! Those stills shows the quality of the cinematography in DAF, which holds nothing back from the other examples you posted earlier.

    The tone of the stills really changes the impression of the film. Very dramatic and noir/thriller-like. Will be interesting to see how the light-hearted moments will look like watching the film in B/W, as this is a very light-hearted film. DAF is one of those Bond films that make good use of colours too (especially in those Las Vegas streets!), so the movie experience will probably be quite different in B/W.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Torgeirtrap, I appreciate the enthusiasm! I agree that Diamonds Are Forever has some stunning cinematography, and I could've included double the images, there are so many great shots to take in. Very smart use of space and lighting and shadow on the part of the team. It was nice to see what Hamilton and co. could pull off in comparison to Goldfinger, that had a heavy use of exteriors and feels limited because of it. With Diamonds things really open up.

    It's one I'd love to experience in blu-ray, to let all the noir elements hammer home all the more. The mix of that presentation and the lighter elements would be interesting, but the film is also quite dark in places and doesn't hold back, so that would really add a lot. I think it's the last Bond film we have that really had a noir influence, and that's a shame, but the movie marks the end of a lot of things, including the era of Connery, so much of it feels like a farewell in the way On Her Majesty's does for other elements.

    I am really excited to get to work on Live & Let Die in the coming weeks, to bring out the macabre elements of that film through desaturation. Watch this space...
  • Posts: 16,169
    DAF has framing and angles that evoke a noir style. Willard Whyte's penthouse with all the shadows and the exteriors almost remind me of Kiss Me Deadly. It also has a 1950's sci-fi tone as well.
    Considering Ken Adam usually gets praise for GF, YOLT and TSWLM, his DAF sets seem a bit underrated. They do look impressive in black and white.
  • Posts: 17,756
    Agree on all points, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Do feel the adventure elements are more present in Moore's films, so it will be interesting to see how those stills will look like in comparison. With TMWTGG I do believe there is still the possibility of some noir-like stills, in anything that features Scaramanga. I'm sure Bangkok will look good in B/W too.

    Really looking forward to see LALD in B/W. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the best stills are to be found in that film!
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 684
    Great, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7! Even though the film is pure camp, I agree that the DAF storyline is oddly suited for this conversion, what with all the gangsters and, as you said, sex and murder.

    In fact its suitability has got me thinking that the 1.66 aspect ratio should be (and should have been) used more often for Bond films. @GoldenGun brought up the how black and white really suited DN, FRWL, and GF on the basis of their ratios, and how the landscape-focus of TB, YOLT, and OHMSS somewhat diminished their appeal in black and white.

    Now here we have DAF as the first Bond shot in scope not to feature much landscape glamor, and I think that if DAF had been shot in 1.66 it would've been an improvement. I'm not sure there was a need to shoot it in scope. (In fact, I think there may be a case to be made that every film post-OHMSS—except for TSWLM and MR, maybe QOS and SF—might've benefitted from 1.66. Certainly all of Glen's work.)

    For this reason I'm really looking forward to seeing stills from LALD and TMWTGG. (TMWTGG, like many of the Bond films that followed, featured some exotic locations but never really used them in the way that the latter 60s films did.




  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I strongly agree DAF would have benefitted from 1.66, it is Hamilton's only Bond film to be filmed in scope and I'd argue it is his weakest contribution.

    I would think some of Glen's work would be appropriate for 1.66 but not TLD with its use of the Afghan desert. AVTAK on the other hand seems perfect for such a ratio.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Black and white Bondathon? Yes, please.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Black and white Bondathon? Yes, please.

    Might be hard to balance at times with the film group now, but from what I understand sometime after the Fleming Bondathon the Black & White Bondathon would start. It would just depend on how people want to do it and when.
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