The MI6 Community Film Club For Cinephiles [On Hold]

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Good analysis. Rusty James was always a dreamer

    I will try to watch Lebowski this weekend.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I was a huge Mickey Rourke fan. He was my favorite actor in the mid-late '80s and early '90s, just the epitome of cool. I wasn't around for Dean and Brando in their primes and Rourke fit that for that era, at least for me.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited November 2017 Posts: 45,489
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I was a huge Mickey Rourke fan. He was my favorite actor in the mid-late '80s and early '90s, just the epitome of cool. I wasn't around for Dean and Brando in their primes and Rourke fit that for that era, at least for me.

    He had several good roles. This, Angel Heart, Year of the Dragon, the list goes on.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Yeah, I loved pretty much all his '80s roles and a lot of these are underrated films. I was like one of about 30 people who actually paid to see The Pope of Greenwich Village when it was released and even though it's kind of a Mean Streets lite it features some really good acting and is still one of my favorite films.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Good analysis. Rusty James was always a dreamer

    I will try to watch Lebowski this weekend.

    Thanks, @Thunderfinger. I really enjoyed this one; good pick!
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I was a huge Mickey Rourke fan. He was my favorite actor in the mid-late '80s and early '90s, just the epitome of cool. I wasn't around for Dean and Brando in their primes and Rourke fit that for that era, at least for me.

    I like Mickey too, and it's kind of a shame to see where parts of his career went as I think he should've reached a higher profile and audience than he ultimately did.

    I was really impressed with the then 18 year old (!) Diane Lane as well, as she really conveyed the emotion of her character quite exceptionally in her minor scenes, and delivers my favorite line of the whole film ("You're better than cool. You're warm."). Beyond that, she was an utter vision (not to say that she still isn't gorgeous). If only I could've been a teen around that time in her neck of the woods!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Jusr saw Lebowski- always a fun watch. Coens always create interesting characters and quirky situations.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    Jusr saw Lebowski- always a fun watch. Coens always create interesting characters and quirky situations.

    I only saw it the once about four years back, but I could immediately see why it's such a beloved cult classic.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Many quotable quotes there. And as usual with the Coens, you never know what happens next on your first watch.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    This will be my first watch of Lebowski. Never been a massive Coen Brothers fan and still need to see some more of their work, so don't know what to expect.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    New top three

    1 RUMBLE FISH
    2 MEMENTO
    3 THE BIG LEBOWSKI
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    The Coen brothers are from Minnesota, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, so naturally I love them.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    While we wait for the new film to kick up discussion, what was it about Rumble Fish that made you select it for the group, @Thunderfinger?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have the impression that few have seen this gem of a movie. It is hardly ever shown on tv, at least here, and I have never come upon it for sale in a physical format. I hardly ever see it mentioned either, wether people discuss Coppola or any of the actors in it or 80s cinema in general.

    It s a shame.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I don t buy things on the web. It s a principle.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Bummer.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2017 Posts: 28,694
    I have the impression that few have seen this gem of a movie. It is hardly ever shown on tv, at least here, and I have never come upon it for sale in a physical format. I hardly ever see it mentioned either, wether people discuss Coppola or any of the actors in it or 80s cinema in general.

    It s a shame.

    I see, @Thunderfinger. That was my motivation too, as I didn't see the point in choosing a film that was widely known and that many had seen. The Detective was a sleeper in the catalogues of many I know who love noirs, so I knew I had to choose it over something more "mainstream" than The Maltese Falcon. More known/popular films have had their time to shine.

    Rumble Fish definitely shows Coppola's crazy versatility. He really could do so much and in numerous genres, like a Welles, Kubrick or Hitchcock before him.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Im just curious if any of you have seen my pick, A Night to Remember.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Im just curious if any of you have seen my pick, A Night to Remember.

    I haven t.
    Bummer.

    Thanks for the effort, though.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Im just curious if any of you have seen my pick, A Night to Remember.

    Nope, not I.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,813
    I've seen A Night to Remember but not in recent memory.
    Looking forward to it--one year on!
  • Posts: 684
    I apologize for my absence in this thread lately (the whole forum actually). I've finally got to RUMBLE FISH.
    As for the tense score, it is by Stewart Copeland, drummer in The Police.
    Glad to have that noted. Would've missed it otherwise. I really liked the score, and thought it fit the tone of the film quite well — part of that being Coppola's use of it, which seems at times unrelenting (in the best way).
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Before his brother's death, Rusty James is trapped in his brother's shadow and isn't prepared to fully embrace his own life. He is just wasting time. After he dies, he is forced to become his own man.
    This is how I saw it, as well, @mattjoes. Off the top of my hand, and without fleshing it out too much, there might be something to this in a Freudian/Jungian sense re: no boy can become a man until his father has died (either literally or spiritually). The film does undoubtedly have some mythical underpinnings. Following this through, I suppose, would in turn point to The Motorcycle Boy being Rusty James's father figure as opposed to/in addition to "the older brother he always wanted."
    mattes wrote:
    In the film, the concept of time is a relevant one. It's explicitly mentioned in one scene in the diner, but apart from that, it's hinted at visually on several occasions: In Rusty James' dreams, the clock in the classroom is ticking quickly. Also, when Rusty James is talking with Smokey outside the diner, the clouds reflected on the window are moving too fast, as if time was sped up. Before Rusty James and Steve are mugged in the alley, there is a shot of the shadow of a fire escape covering the brick wall of a building, and its movement is accelerated. In some street scenes, I also got the impression some of those clouds of mist, fog, smoke, whatever, were moving way too quickly. It's all got to do with the idea that when one is young, one has the impression there is plenty of time to do things, but in fact life is moving, and quickly.
    This is a good observation. Watching it myself, I noticed during the classroom sequence that the clock on the wall appeared to be jumping around. I chalked it up to continuity, but perhaps it was more intentional, part of this sense of youthful time, where it's lost track of easily.
    I’m reminded quite fondly of Rian Johnson’s 2005 indie neo-noir film Brick, where the high school kids depicted speak like the adults out of the 40s and 50s noir classics and where actual adults are almost non-existent.
    Good shout, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 -- you know I love BRICK. Hadn't made that connection, though. The dialogue certainly fits in with the heightened style of the rest of the film.

    I do wonder whether this high style is attractive to or alienating to teens themselves. Was RUMBLE FISH, in fat, a film that was made for teens? In the sense of John Hughes movie, for instance. I know the book was written for that intended audience, but the film strikes me as a story about teenagers aimed at adults.
    All these particular stylistic elements give Rumble Fish a very distinct and original identity, and its use of sound and visuals often result in a surreal or slightly bizarre final product that feels almost like a fantasy pretending to be reality. I am thinking most prominently of how the clouds race past the sky in reflection when Rusty James and Smokey speak for the last time, like time is being fast forwarded, or the very surreal and dream-like nature of Rusty James being carried weightlessly through the sky after he gets him on the head with a crowbar. Other little elements, like the fantastical nature of The Motorcycle Boy’s name and his legend give what would otherwise be a crime film about street urchins a far richer core dotted with mythical touches and stylistic flourishes.
    Yes, one of the things I noted was how the film does a good job of treading the line between literal and non-literal filmmaking. The plot progresses from A to B to C, etc., and while all letters can be read literally, certain of them can, if chosen, be read non-literally.
    He had several good roles. This, Angel Heart, Year of the Dragon, the list goes on.
    This is the first I've seen him so young. I thought he was excellent and can certainly understand his reputation better. I will have to seek out more of his early stuff.
    I have the impression that few have seen this gem of a movie. It is hardly ever shown on tv, at least here, and I have never come upon it for sale in a physical format. I hardly ever see it mentioned either, wether people discuss Coppola or any of the actors in it or 80s cinema in general.
    Yes, and Coppola is another whose work I must seek out more, specifically his post-1970s stuff like this. Apparently, he's recently gone back and done a director's cut of the film he made directly after RUMBLE FISH, called THE COTTON CLUB (now titled THE COTTON CLUB ENCORE), and it premiered two months back at Telluride. One piece I was reading called it his masterpiece. What did you think of that one, @Thunderfinger? I suppose that would be as good a place as any for me to start next.

    --

    Overall I'm grateful of your pick, @Thunderfinger -- I'd never have seen it, otherwise (at least not anytime soon). And as you said, that is a shame.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2017 Posts: 28,694
    Strog wrote: »
    Off the top of my hand, and without fleshing it out too much, there might be something to this in a Freudian/Jungian sense re: no boy can become a man until his father has died (either literally or spiritually). The film does undoubtedly have some mythical underpinnings. Following this through, I suppose, would in turn point to The Motorcycle Boy being Rusty James's father figure as opposed to/in addition to "the older brother he always wanted."
    @Strog, the idea of a boy not being able to be a man until his father dies is an interesting one, regardless of a connection it may have to Rumble Fish.

    I definitely agree that there is a lot going on between Rusty, his brother and his father, and noted that the largest impact of the story is watching him fall over himself trying to be like them. I think Rusty drinks like a fish because he sees his old man do it, and it's all he knows (he may also want to impress him, to show that he's a man on his level) and when Motorcycle Boy leaves the gangs we see Rusty similarly trying to fill that spot poorly. This is interesting, because by showing Rusty always being someone else, the moment is more powerful when he takes his own initiative and is allowed to be his own man even while truly becoming the "new" Motorcycle Boy in that last shot. There's a continuing of a sort of legacy but also of him finally coming into his own. He's ready to make his own decisions now, in the service of nobody else.

    But I really like how the film warns Rusty about being something he's not, as his attempts to be like his brother and father don't work out for him, and both of those male centers in his life are quick to warn him to avoid that. When he drinks like his father he does stupid things or checks out of his life, resigned to that waiting around he's aware of but is too lazy or scared to stop. And far more notably, many characters warn him about being like his brother because he doesn't have the brains to lead a gang and lacks the quiet diplomacy of Motorcycle Boy; he's a hotheaded soldier and a blunt instrument. With the consequences Rusty faces throughout the film, of all the people he hurts when drunk or when he's too eager to get into silly street fights, I think he learns the importance of doing something in life that plays to his own strengths. By dying in front of him, a lost cause of a gang life, I think Motorcycle Boy sours the gang experience for Rusty quite purposefully and gives him a way out that he wouldn't have sought on his own. He actually had to lose the person he loved most to change, in a strange way.
    Strog wrote: »
    I’m reminded quite fondly of Rian Johnson’s 2005 indie neo-noir film Brick, where the high school kids depicted speak like the adults out of the 40s and 50s noir classics and where actual adults are almost non-existent.
    Good shout, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 -- you know I love BRICK. Hadn't made that connection, though. The dialogue certainly fits in with the heightened style of the rest of the film.

    I do wonder whether this high style is attractive to or alienating to teens themselves. Was RUMBLE FISH, in fat, a film that was made for teens? In the sense of John Hughes movie, for instance. I know the book was written for that intended audience, but the film strikes me as a story about teenagers aimed at adults.
    Brick was definitely on my mind as I watched this film in particular, and if we ever get around to picking movies again for a fresh marathon many, many months from now, I'd consider selecting that one for my second pick. I think it'd be a fun one to discuss, especially for those who know noir filmmaking and the tropes.

    I'm always fascinated by films that have the young characters speaking like adults, as that gives the whole thing such style and memorability. Some will say things like, "Kids don't talk like that, it's unrealistic!" And sure enough, when Brick is viewed by those who don't understand the noir conventions and the style of speech in those stories that its script quite overtly plays from, they will criticize the writing as being poor and not how kids or anyone really speak. I read that when Rumble Fish first premiered it got booed, so I'm now curious if it was because audiences partially didn't expect to see such a stylized film that painted a more surreal picture of life for kids. Many challenging or different/eccentric films of this kind are seldom welcomed with open arms on their debuts, much like one of the previous films in our viewing schedule, L'Avventura, because they demand some thought and a reconsideration on the part of the viewer of what movies can be.

    Personally, I always love when the reality of the world in a film, show or book is mixed with the extraordinary of fantasy or mythicism (Fleming's Bond novels, for instance), so Rumble Fish was right up my alley. If I had to describe it in a sentence while comparing it to another famously surreal series of films, I'd say that Rumble Fish is essentially Mad Max on the streets with the apocalyptic terrors swapped out for kids. In both films there's a heightened sense of dialogue, where slang is used and a new sort of language created, and also where an almost otherworldly sense of place reigns. There's something about the streets of Rumble Fish that feel fantastical and full of hidden magic, much like how the wasteland of the Mad Max films is a breeding ground for hyper-madness and crazy new cultures and tribal units built around cars, vital resources and the old world now lost. And of course, the way that Motorcycle Boy is made a mythical figure of fear and respect on the streets also reminded me of the similarly vehicular nature of Max Rockatansky's own symbol of legend on the wasteland, "The Road Warrior." You could almost imagine a sign on a dead Australian highway reading in rough scribbles, "The Road Warrior Reigns!" to ward off would be vagrants and criminals from causing trouble. I love how Rumble Fish and Mad Max are able to blend man and myth like that, and how, after a while, you lose sight or sense of who either Motorcycle Boy or Max are behind their legendary titles. They become more than man, though man is all they are.

    The way the characters of Rumble Fish acted in the gang scenes, especially in the dramatic way that the gang members raced around in madness as the fight between Rusty and Biff went on, also gave off that same lunatic feeling of when Max enters Thunderdome for me. A big, nutso affair with crazy style and untamed adrenaline. Even Biff's hyper-dramatic and animated entrance to the fight made me grin, as the way it was shot and acted plays directly into how George Miller crafted his own crazy wasteland, like in Road Warrior when The Lord Humungus is dramatically introduced to everyone near and far as "The Warrior of the Wasteland! The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla!" It's all so ridiculous, but so perfect at the same time. Why see life as it really is when it can be heightened and mutated to a fever pitch like that! I wish more films like these were made today.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Rusty James spent much of his time in the past, in daydreams and in the future.

    As for kids back then, we did speak like old people.

    @strog, I saw The Cotton Club in the cinema when it came out. It didn t do much for me.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Rumbe Fish could definitely be seen more as a film for those who are already grown, and who are using it to look back. Though I think all the dilemmas in the film could be understood by younger viewers, there is a certain maturity to the messages of the film, especially about society and time, that are best understood by those who've already felt the fast-forward loss of time that is older age. Like Benny says in that quick scene in the diner, youths don't feel it at that point and you actually need to be older to not only feel the message of the film, but also to understand it.

    I'm sure that Diane Lane, Matt Dillon, Nic Cage and all the rest of them quite fittingly look back at the film and think, "Man, where did the time go?" It's perfect that the film is stocked full of young actors destined to be stars of their own making later on, as we can see how far they've come in our current time now that those careers have been made while also seeing how they've matured as people and artists. Their own careers over the three decades since Rumble Fish released have inadvertently supported the message about time in the film itself.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 17,759
    Haven't had the opportunity to find/watch the last two films discussed on the thread. If I get the chance, I'll have a watch and come back with comments. I do however have a copy of The Big Lebowski somewhere. If I can find it (haha!), I will try to find time to watch it.
    This will be my first watch of Lebowski. Never been a massive Coen Brothers fan and still need to see some more of their work, so don't know what to expect.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic Of the more recent Coen Brothers-films, I would recommend Hail, Caesar!. Nice little 1950's set comedy-mystery about the Hollywood film industry.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I provided a couple of links where you can watch the film a couple pages back. Lebowski is there as well.
  • Posts: 17,759
    I provided a couple of links where you can watch the film a couple pages back. Lebowski is there as well.

    Thanks, that makes things easier! :-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Truly love „The Big Lebowski“ ... awesome and funny movie classic
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