Which 007 flick has the worst final 3rd : DAD,DAF,TND,SP ? *Edited to be a 4 way choice*

124

Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    Why is DAF in contention? It's Fleming through and through in the end (odd as Connery had so departed from Fleming with YOLT).
  • Posts: 7,415
    Disappointed DAF has replaced TND! The former at least had the Wint and Kidd encounter. And Connery of course!
    TND was lazy and dull and it ended abruptly! Very lame! DAD still wins though!
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I don't see the Wint and Kidd fight as the finale. More of an epilogue. The finale is the oil rig and it is pretty poor but I'm really not a fan of TND's either so not sure which I prefer. TND is generic but there's at least a sense of urgency and stakes there (at least until the shooting really starts) which is more than I can say for DAF. But DAF definitely feels like Bond while TND's finale feels like a generic forgettable action movie.
  • echo wrote: »
    Why is DAF in contention? It's Fleming through and through in the end (odd as Connery had so departed from Fleming with YOLT).

    DAF is my guilty pleasure Bond pic, but even I must admit that the rig battle is pretty underwhelming stuff, even more so than SP's London coda. Bond climaxes should be about more than generic shoot-em-ups.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Here's the final to TND:

    The music certainly helps give it that "sense of urgency", but I always laugh at Stamper's faces and cheesy dialogue ("I owe you an unpleasant death, Mr Bond").

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It is ridiculously bad.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Lots of mugging and fake punching sound effects.

    I've always liked the shot of the explosion in the ship though as well as that of it passing over Broz/Yeoh underwater.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited September 2017 Posts: 25,092


    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Here's the final to TND:

    The music certainly helps give it that "sense of urgency", but I always laugh at Stamper's faces and cheesy dialogue ("I owe you an unpleasant death, Mr Bond").



    The Man with the Golden Gurn
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited September 2017 Posts: 7,021
    I love the stuff in the stealth boat. Cheesy, and loads of fun. Bond's face when he stabs Stamper and he just brushes it off! :)) And when Bond jumps into the water and Stamper lets out a confused "ugh!" :))

    NEIN! Foah Cahvah! And Kaufmahn!
  • Posts: 11,425
    TND is Brozza's best entry.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Lots of mugging and fake punching sound effects.

    I've always liked the shot of the explosion in the ship though as well as that of it passing over Broz/Yeoh underwater.

    I know...and if the ship has blown,the chain is attached to ?
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Tough choice. SP's predictable but at least has strong participants (in particular, the Bond girl is significantly above the others). DAD's got that godawful Iron Man suit, while DAF has the worst villain "defeat" with Blofeld. Absolutely not the comeuppance he deserved after OHMSS, so DAF might be the worst here.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    My Dog, that TND clip was terrible-- unwatchable... I know I'd rather see SP crap over that boiling and smouldering and stinking pile of fresh turd. Terrible all the way around... Just watching that makes me admire the Craig era (warts and all), that much more!! LONG LIVE CRAIG (so long as we never hafta go back to the 90s era, ever again).

    Embarrassing!!
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 3,333
    DAF’s final act suffers from last minute script changes due to movie’s big climax, chiefly early drafts included a boat chase on Lake Mead that ended with Blofeld getting trapped above Hoover Dam. When the climax was relocated to an oil rig, producers planned to have scuba divers leap from the attacking helicopters (explaining the presence of frogmen on the movie's poster) and plant mines on the rig's legs to destroy it, but this too was scrapped. Originally the oil rig finale also had Blofeld escape from the rig in his mini submarine, pursued by Bond who would hang from a weather balloon. Bond would eventually catch up to his nemesis in a salt mine where the two would finally fight to the death, with Blofeld falling into a rock crusher. The elimination of this entire sequence, and indeed of any death scene for Blofeld, leaves a major plothole in the film, as Blofeld simply disappears without explanation, and we’re left with a rather dull fight on an oil rig. The “epilogue of Wint & Kidd” helps salvage the previous poor climax.

    DAD is terrible from beginning to end, so the poor 3rd act is bridged by an equally terrible 1st and 2nd, therefore it’s the worst by a long way.

    TND is pretty generic action that fizzles rather than explodes, and isn’t that dissimilar to the weak DAF climax with its stealth boat, but without the superior Wint & Kidd epilogue to redeem it. However, as weak as it is, nothing beats how utterly abysmal an experience was of having to endure DAD with its CGI ice castle and burning plane, robot suit, and Moneypenny using the simulation VR glasses.

    I agree that SPECTREs third act is pretty dull as well, and I don’t like the London climax nor the Blofeld reveal in the dessert. But for me, SPECTRE and DAF are superior to DAD, which will always rank at the bottom.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    peter wrote: »
    My Dog, that TND clip was terrible-- unwatchable... I know I'd rather see SP crap over that boiling and smouldering and stinking pile of fresh turd. Terrible all the way around... Just watching that makes me admire the Craig era (warts and all), that much more!! LONG LIVE CRAIG (so long as we never hafta go back to the 90s era, ever again).

    Embarrassing!!

    I admit I used to enjoy that fight when I was a teenager as I never noticed the blatant overacting. Now though yeah, besides the music, it's pretty crap.

    I HATE growing up sometimes.
    peter wrote: »
    that's it @Fire_and_Ice_Returns -- SC and RM elevated the material... I love Craig, but he did not elevate that awful London tack-on, and PB was never believable to me in the best of fight scenes, so....

    To be fair Roger was never entirely convincing in his fight scenes either. This one always makes me laugh watching the two of them grunt (Roger) and gurn (Sandor). I suppose it has a great payoff line though.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Here's the final to TND:

    The music certainly helps give it that "sense of urgency", but I always laugh at Stamper's faces and cheesy dialogue ("I owe you an unpleasant death, Mr Bond").


    I've always loved that line. Stamper as a whole is a bit of a cheesy character, but he's an example of properly executed, intentional cheese.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189


    All of Jill St. John's expressions and lines in this scene are hilariously bad.

    For all of Connery's charm in this, I don't believe him as a credible spy. I see him in that tux and I just think "ageing waiter".
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    peter wrote: »
    My Dog, that TND clip was terrible-- unwatchable... I know I'd rather see SP crap over that boiling and smouldering and stinking pile of fresh turd. Terrible all the way around... Just watching that makes me admire the Craig era (warts and all), that much more!! LONG LIVE CRAIG (so long as we never hafta go back to the 90s era, ever again).

    Embarrassing!!
    I viewed the clip after reading your post and must agree with your assessment of TND's ending. Horrid. Carver's dialogue is beyond pathetic. Brozza's expression when he asks Stamper to let Wai Lin go is hilarious. What a shambles.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To be fair Roger was never entirely convincing in his fight scenes either. This one always makes me laugh watching the two of them grunt (Roger) and gurn (Sandor). I suppose it has a great payoff line though.
    I've always loved this fight. Rog seems a bit more sprightly here than in other outings, and is practicing his new found high kick which he employs at the pyramids later too.
    BAIN123 wrote: »


    All of Jill St. John's expressions and lines in this scene are hilariously bad.

    For all of Connery's charm in this, I don't believe him as a credible spy. I see him in that tux and I just think "ageing waiter".
    St. John is totally overdoing it, but watching this clip makes me realize how much I miss Connery and Barry. Different league to what we have these days. So darn smooth.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Connery is timelessly cool...
  • Posts: 19,339
    TND now added x its now a 4 way choice peeps.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 3,333
    Thanks for posting that @BAIN123. And as Bond says: “I’ll be the judge of that.”

    I honestly can’t see anything wrong with Jill St John’s performance in that excerpt, unless you’re referring to the “eek”, which I find amusing not hilariously bad? It’s not as hilariously bad as anything that spills forth from Halle Berry’s lips in DAD or her terrible cocky posturing.

    And come on, Connery is great here. You’re trying to tell me you seriously consider any of Brosnan’s serious attempts at acting as a spy believable above Connery’s?

    Even his dialogue is good here: “I’ll be the judge of that. That’s rather potent. Not the cork, your after-shave. Strong enough to bury anything.” Bond then adds, “But the wine is quite excellent. Although, for such a grand meal I had rather expected a claret.” Wint takes 007’s bait: “Of course. Unfortunately, our cellars are rather poorly stocked with clarets.” Bond rebukes, “Mouton Rothschild is a claret. And I’ve smelled that aftershave before and both times I’ve smelled a rat!”
    Cue action.

    ... a superb dry delivery and a masterclass in subtle acting. The man’s a legend... a god. Brosnan can only dream of delivering lines like these with such dry aplomb. I can just picture Brosnan having a go at the very same scene; he’d tilt his head, smirk a lot, and in that light-wispy voice of his he’d carry as much threat as a Cocker Spaniel in his delivery. I mean, I could say the same for Brosnan: I see him in a tux and all I think is lightweight ham that’s better suited for TV work.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Watch Connery at 1:43 just after he smells the cork. He quickly looks over Wint very subtly, as he recognizes the 'rather potent' aftershave prior to making his remark. That is excellent acting imho.
  • Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watch Connery at 1:43 just after he smells the cork. He quickly looks over Wint very subtly, as he recognizes the 'rather potent' aftershave prior to making his remark. That is excellent acting imho.

    I do like that scene,well until he puts the bomb between Wint's legs...the way Kidd is set on fire is always cut from ITV no matter what time the film is on,i only ever saw that happen when i got my old special edition DVD ,i was gobsmacked.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,984
    @bondjames - TND's ending gets worse and worse for me every time. I think Johnathan Pryce manages to make something out of his lines, but his death scene remains odd (it always was; Brosnan let go of him way too early). There's also that jarring sequence with him machine gunning and the special effects department suddenly decided to stop producing the gun flashes, so we see him shooting an empty gun silently for about two seconds.

    As for the Moore fight, some of it is alright but there's surely no excuse for that laughable jump-hug he executes before he tries to strangle Sandor. At some points Sir Roger looks plain geriatric, and I think that pull-up kick he performs is the worst of all the ones there's been in the series. I did like Roger's initial elbow strike and his last few moves in the fight, but he hit like a grandpa in the rest of it.

    The fight outside the pyramids against Ivan and Boris was much better in my opinion, where Bond's blows actually looked believably threatening. The Jaws fight on the train is also done perfectly; these two are perhaps the only Roger fights other than the one with the yo-yo assassins in OP and the Golden Gate fight in AVTAK that I can't complain about. The rest of them look a bit too acted-out and unbelievable, in my opinion, whether it's the blows being unconvincing or the speed of the fight just being under par.
  • Posts: 19,339
    @bondjames - TND's ending gets worse and worse for me every time. I think Johnathan Pryce manages to make something out of his lines, but his death scene remains odd (it always was; Brosnan let go of him way too early). There's also that jarring sequence with him machine gunning and the special effects department suddenly decided to stop producing the gun flashes, so we see him shooting an empty gun silently for about two seconds.

    As for the Moore fight, some of it is alright but there's surely no excuse for that laughable jump-hug he executes before he tries to strangle Sandor. At some points Sir Roger looks plain geriatric, and I think that pull-up kick he performs is the worst of all the ones there's been in the series. I did like Roger's initial elbow strike and his last few moves in the fight, but he hit like a grandpa in the rest of it.

    The fight outside the pyramids against Ivan and Boris was much better in my opinion, where Bond's blows actually looked believably threatening. The Jaws fight on the train is also done perfectly; these two are perhaps the only Roger fights other than the one with the yo-yo assassins in OP that I can't complain about. The rest of them look a bit too acted-out and unbelievable, in my opinion, whether it's the blows being unconvincing or the speed of the fight just being under par.

    You dont like the fight on the Golden Gate Bridge vs Zorin?
  • barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watch Connery at 1:43 just after he smells the cork. He quickly looks over Wint very subtly, as he recognizes the 'rather potent' aftershave prior to making his remark. That is excellent acting imho.

    I do like that scene,well until he puts the bomb between Wint's legs...the way Kidd is set on fire is always cut from ITV no matter what time the film is on,i only ever saw that happen when i got my old special edition DVD ,i was gobsmacked.

    Wint going out with his tails between his legs is one of the most hilarious moments in all of Bondom. Could never be filmed now, of course.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,984
    barryt007 wrote: »
    You dont like the fight on the Golden Gate Bridge vs Zorin?

    Forgot that one; it's done pretty convincingly. The MR plane one isn't too bad either, except there's a bit of the cartoonish "spinning away several metres" in response to each punch.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watch Connery at 1:43 just after he smells the cork. He quickly looks over Wint very subtly, as he recognizes the 'rather potent' aftershave prior to making his remark. That is excellent acting imho.

    I do like that scene,well until he puts the bomb between Wint's legs...the way Kidd is set on fire is always cut from ITV no matter what time the film is on,i only ever saw that happen when i got my old special edition DVD ,i was gobsmacked.

    Wint going out with his tails between his legs is one of the most hilarious moments in all of Bondom. Could never be filmed now, of course.

    It does make me laugh,and Bruce's face is a classic piece of acting...that whole scene is better than the oil-rig bore fest.
    (Although i do like Bond under the rig and all the bullets pinging around and little smoke clouds,that was very clever and adds realism.)
    Oh ,and seeing Wint & Kidd's faces in the portholes as the ship departs always gave me an eerie shiver - still does ,PK !!
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 19,339
    DUPE
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @ForYourEyesOnly , I'll always remember watching TND in the theatre for the first time. I was in complete shock at that ending sequence. Brosnan waving that machine gun around like some toy! He does it in the underground sequence in TWINE as well. Pryce definitely does the best he can but my word those lines are absolutely pathetic. "You're too late again Mr. Bond. It's a bad habit of yours. There's nothing you can do.......". So 'low budget tv'. Agreed on the 'drill' sequence as well. Why didn't Carver just jump out of the way? And are you telling me he couldn't hear the drill start up? The film had some production difficulties as I recall, and it shows.

    If we are to objectively judge Moore's fights then he will always come up short. Rog was a lover, not a fighter. However, I still think some of his best work is in TSWLM (particularly at the pyramids) and in MR (the Chang fight). I've also always enjoyed his encounter at Saida's in TMWTGG and at Kananga's lair in LALD (Rog was pretty mobile in his first film).
    ---
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watch Connery at 1:43 just after he smells the cork. He quickly looks over Wint very subtly, as he recognizes the 'rather potent' aftershave prior to making his remark. That is excellent acting imho.

    I do like that scene,well until he puts the bomb between Wint's legs...the way Kidd is set on fire is always cut from ITV no matter what time the film is on,i only ever saw that happen when i got my old special edition DVD ,i was gobsmacked.

    Wint going out with his tails between his legs is one of the most hilarious moments in all of Bondom. Could never be filmed now, of course.
    So true. A shame.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watch Connery at 1:43 just after he smells the cork. He quickly looks over Wint very subtly, as he recognizes the 'rather potent' aftershave prior to making his remark. That is excellent acting imho.

    I do like that scene,well until he puts the bomb between Wint's legs...the way Kidd is set on fire is always cut from ITV no matter what time the film is on,i only ever saw that happen when i got my old special edition DVD ,i was gobsmacked.
    There should be a rule against cutting films on tv. Unforgivable. Just show it at a more adult oriented hour.
Sign In or Register to comment.