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Die Another Day vs Spectre.

barryt007barryt007
edited November 2017 in Bond Movies Posts: 19,339
To take the pressure off the other threads ,this is the place to discuss or debate.

I have checked and this thread doesn't exist,so let battle commence.

For me,SP is the better film,but DAD is more entertaining and the easier film to watch,with a much better pace.

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Comments

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    There is no battle to commence is there?

    SP is an average entry. Some excellent stuff dragged down to mediocre by some appalling stuff.

    DAD is a passable first 30 mins followed by 90 mins of the lowest depths which the series has ever plumbed.

    Not even close.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited November 2017 Posts: 19,339
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    There is no battle to commence is there?

    SP is an average entry. Some excellent stuff dragged down to mediocre by some appalling stuff.

    DAD is a passable first 30 mins followed by 90 mins of the lowest depths which the series has ever plumbed.

    Not even close.

    Maybe so,but DAD has more of the 'popcorn' factor,while SP still has melodrama yet again,and even though both 3rd acts are crap,i do prefer DAD's if I had to pick one.
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited November 2017 Posts: 832
    Neither sp or dad are passable, so there is a debate to be had. Sp has the worst 3rd act in the series, Dad is the worst film in the series, both films have great moments, and they are close in quality.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Some days you pick flowers, other days you pick up rocks.
    Some days you have steak, other days you have pizza.
    Some days you drink wine, other days you drink Red Bull.
    Some days you watch SP, other days you watch DAD.

    I prefer the former, but can enjoy the latter too as a guilty pleasure.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Neither sp or dad are passable, so there is a debate to be had. Sp has the worst 3rd act in the series, Dad is the worst film in the series, both films have great moments, and they are close in quality.

    Agreed...its so so annoying,i even turn it off at that stage sometimes,which I never do with Bond films.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Both films are 5*. Settles that.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    I really enjoy Spectre, it’s extremely flawed but I think there’s a lot to love and it moves sufficiently to keep me interested (I adore Casino Royale, but after these 11 years there are definitely parts that I wish moved faster/were gone); I also love Gustav Graves as a villain from a purely entertainment point of view. I’ve seen Spectre more times than I’ve seen Die Another Day I’m ashamed to say so I might have to revisit it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Die Another Day is simply more enjoyable. Not all of the Joys were intended by the filmmakers though.

    SPECTRE is difficult to sit through, slow and tedious. The film also gets worst as it goes along, so I suppose they have that in common.

    It's hard to pick a favourite, or a "better" film from the two.

    I think I have SP higher than DAD, but I haven't made a new list in a while.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    DAD is terrible but I don' care I wasn't really invested in it when I went to see it, the PB era is my least liked with the exception of GE.

    Although SP I was and it was such a missed opportunity and an utter disappointment and though I'll likely subject myself to it and I'm unlikely to watch DAD ever again. Due to my reaction I've got SP placed at 24 and DAD 23.

    I know SP is not as ludicrous but because SP really drags an era down I was a big fan of and DAD I wasn't I justify placing SP at the bottom of the pile.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I can have fun with DAD these days. I recall cringing at the tsunami shambles, the overt innuendo and the shameful corniness of the whole thing upon first viewing in 2002, but came away feeling much better than I did after the preceding TWINE three years earlier. It's an amusing film.

    SP on the other hand, while objectively a better and more polished entry, continues to leave me cold and dispirited whenever I view it. There's something distinctly unpleasant about the whole thing, but I can't quite put my finger on it. No fun to be had here at all.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    A Bond film score,makes a heck of a difference,and I like the score of DAD a lot.
    SP score was lazy and arrogant and disrespectful to the Bond fan by borrowing SF's score.
    If it had a decent score then who knows,it might have improved it somehow.
    The only way on my rankings for SP (currently in 11th in my rankings) will be downwards,and the score has a lot to blame for that thanks to Newman.

    How much did he get paid for basically recycling SF ?
  • jobojobo
    edited November 2017 Posts: 7,507
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    There is no battle to commence is there?

    SP is an average entry. Some excellent stuff dragged down to mediocre by some appalling stuff.

    DAD is a passable first 30 mins followed by 90 mins of the lowest depths which the series has ever plumbed.

    Not even close.


    Indeed!

    I am offended by this thread on behalf of Spectre.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    At the risk of skewing the debate and bringing back old unwelcome memories, this timely article celebrating (?) the 15th anniversary of DAD's release puts things into perspective. The photo says it all really.

    https://www.gq.com/story/how-die-another-day-almost-blew-up-the-james-bond-franchise
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    SP - and it’s not close. I can’t at all agree with people who swear off SP as boring and claim DAD is better just because it’s more “fun.” DAD has very few fun parts; those are all over by the end of the swordfight scene. I will concede the last third of SP is weak, with the foster brother idea and the cliche climax. But I fail to see it as more embarrassing than DAD’s second half. It just gets so stupid from the Ice Palace onwards.

    SP is the second-best fourth entry for a Bond actor I think, after TB by Connery. MR and DAD go so far over-the-top it’s painful sometimes. SP isn’t the best Bond by any stretch, but it’s nowhere near the disaster of DAD.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I can have fun with DAD these days. I recall cringing at the tsunami shambles, the overt innuendo and the shameful corniness of the whole thing upon first viewing in 2002, but came away feeling much better than I did after the preceding TWINE three years earlier. It's an amusing film.

    SP on the other hand, while objectively a better and more polished entry, continues to leave me cold and dispirited whenever I view it. There's something distinctly unpleasant about the whole thing, but I can't quite put my finger on it. No fun to be had here at all.

    Pretty much where I stand, particularly your comments on SP. Neither are a great film, but at least DAD frequently entertains (rough as some parts are to get through).

    Yes to all of this!

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Spectre by far. It has inconsistencies but I all most up until the London finale
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    DAD. Great first-half with a great car chase and some good scenes throughout the second half. My only real problem is the surfing sequence. It's stupid but it doesn't pretend to be anything else.

    SP has a great first 45 minutes and two good scenes after, the train fight and meteorite scene. The rest? Yawn.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2017 Posts: 8,395
    Zao is much better Henchman than Hinx IMO. He actually got hoist by his own petard at the end. Plus his death was clever, with Bond using his ingenuity and problem solving, not just relying on someone to come and save him.
  • TR007TR007
    Posts: 1,165
    Die Another Day is objectively a worse film, no doubt about it.

    However...

    For me DAD is the most entertaining, engaging and rewarding of the two films. It's so bad it's good and never gets boring. It moves at such a breakneck speed which makes it a lot easier to watch.
    SP is too dull, slow, self-indulgent, so DAD gets my vote.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    I never got the reappraisal for DAD. The “so bad it’s good” argument just doesn’t work for me on it. Too much wrong, and not nearly enough that really entertains me like others suggest.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited November 2017 Posts: 7,021
    I prefer Spectre.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Don't forget peeps that DAD was a 40th anniversary film ,so they maybe tried too hard to make it spectacular.
    But the nod to the old Bond films,eg TB with the grape eating at the clinic etc was a commendable effort.

    SP had no such excuse.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Don't forget peeps that DAD was a 40th anniversary film ,so they maybe tried too hard to make it spectacular.
    But the nod to the old Bond films,eg TB with the grape eating at the clinic etc was a commendable effort.

    SP had no such excuse.


    Sorry, but that's ridiculous. So they were not "trying hard enough" with SP? Even if it mattered, it hardly holds up. SP har the highest budget of any Bond film. They went all in and more.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    I am curious to know where the "entertainment" is in DAD. It escapes me, that's for sure
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DAD is at the bottom of the pile. SPECTRE is a top ten.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    jobo wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Don't forget peeps that DAD was a 40th anniversary film ,so they maybe tried too hard to make it spectacular.
    But the nod to the old Bond films,eg TB with the grape eating at the clinic etc was a commendable effort.

    SP had no such excuse.


    Sorry, but that's ridiculous. So they were not "trying hard enough" with SP? Even if it mattered, it hardly holds up. SP har the highest budget of any Bond film. They went all in and more.

    Read it again..DAD tried too hard...NOT SP.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    jobo wrote: »
    I am curious to know where the "entertainment" is in DAD. It escapes me, that's for sure

    Besides some stuff like the swordfight, it also escapes me. People call SP more “boring” than DAD. The silly action sequences and nonsense in DAD is boring to me.
  • jobojobo
    edited November 2017 Posts: 7,507
    barryt007 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Don't forget peeps that DAD was a 40th anniversary film ,so they maybe tried too hard to make it spectacular.
    But the nod to the old Bond films,eg TB with the grape eating at the clinic etc was a commendable effort.

    SP had no such excuse.


    Sorry, but that's ridiculous. So they were not "trying hard enough" with SP? Even if it mattered, it hardly holds up. SP har the highest budget of any Bond film. They went all in and more.

    Read it again..DAD tried too hard...NOT SP.

    I perfectly understood your post. It just doesn't hold up. Even if trying too hard would be a relevant excuse for anything, it doesn't make sense. They tried just as hard with Spectre.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Don't forget peeps that DAD was a 40th anniversary film ,so they maybe tried too hard to make it spectacular.
    But the nod to the old Bond films,eg TB with the grape eating at the clinic etc was a commendable effort.

    SP had no such excuse.

    Interesting, DAD tried too hard to be spectacular while SPECTRE tried too hard to hard to prove it's gravitas.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    jobo wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Don't forget peeps that DAD was a 40th anniversary film ,so they maybe tried too hard to make it spectacular.
    But the nod to the old Bond films,eg TB with the grape eating at the clinic etc was a commendable effort.

    SP had no such excuse.


    Sorry, but that's ridiculous. So they were not "trying hard enough" with SP? Even if it mattered, it hardly holds up. SP har the highest budget of any Bond film. They went all in and more.

    Read it again..DAD tried too hard...NOT SP.

    I perfectly understood your post. It just doesn't hold up. Even if trying too hard would be a relevant excuse for anything, it doesn't make sense. They tried just as hard with Spectre.

    No you don't understand it.
    I mean DAD went TOO far due to the 40th anniversary !
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