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Reunion with Death - early third Dalton treatment?

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  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    This is the "official" reason
    variety.com/1994/film/news/dalton-bails-out-as-bond-120067/amp/
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited February 2018 Posts: 12,837
    I think it was a case of him jumping before he was pushed. From what my adoptive dad has told me, he was always fairly popular over here. But he just didn't really break America.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I read that Dalton walked away from the part in early 1994, after having read Michael France s script. Can t say I blame him. He recognized a cringy Bond film there, I suppose.

    I've never seen anything to confirm that he walked away because of France's script. That sounds like something fabricated by the fans.

    In reality, here's how it went down:

    1. Dalton was keen on doing one more Bond film, which would have been GOLDENEYE. The problem is, Cubby Broccoli wanted him to sign a multi-film contract. Dalton refused.

    2. MGM/UA did not want to proceed with Dalton in the lead. Calley and Kleeman convinced EON to go with a new actor.

    Yes, this is what I've read as one of the main reasons that Dalton did not return for GE. It sounds right to me.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited February 2018 Posts: 628
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I suppose it would have been difficult for the EON to re-start the series after such a long gap, with the leading man only returning for the one film. Seems similar to what happening now. One last film for Craig after a long gap. Cubby really wanted to get the series back on track. I can imagine he didn't like keeping fans waiting.

    Had MGM/UA not been so concerned about the casting, would Broccoli have changed his mind and allowed Dalton to do only one more film? I think there's a strong possibility. The Broccolis really liked Dalton and wanted to work with him again.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    Here, Timothy Dalton says what happened:
    theweek.com/articles/447045/timothy-dalton-opens-about-penny-dreadful-leaving-james-bond-demon-all
  • RevelatorRevelator
    edited February 2018 Posts: 2,921
    Here are the most relevant parts:
    Dalton waves away the idea that the fear of stagnation was a part of his relatively short tenure as 007. "That was my worry going into the James Bond franchise, certainly," he explains. "But it wasn't why I left." That doesn't mean he didn't have some concerns about the franchise: "On [Licence to Kill], I think I saw the script about two weeks before we started shooting. You know, that's not great, is it?"

    Licence to Kill wasn't supposed to be his final James Bond movie; a third 007 movie, which would have starred Dalton, entered preproduction in 1990. "We had the script. They were interviewing directors. We were really rolling forward, ready to start. It was actually quite a good story, I thought," says Dalton. But a lengthy legal dispute between Eon Productions and MGM delayed the film indefinitely — and gave Dalton an out. "Because of the lawsuit, I was free of the contract," Dalton explains. "And [producer] Mr. Broccoli, who I really respected as a producer and as a friend, asked me what I was going to do when it was resolved. I said, 'Look, in all honesty, I don't think that I will continue.' He asked me for my support during that time, which of course, I gave him."

    But when the lawsuit was resolved several years later, Dalton had a change of heart. "When [the next movie] did come about, it was probably four or five years later," he explains. "[Broccoli] asked if I would come back, and I said, 'Well, I've actually changed my mind a little bit. I think that I'd love to do one. Try and take the best of the two that I have done, and consolidate them into a third.' And he said, quite rightly, 'Look, Tim. You can't do one. There's no way, after a five-year gap between movies that you can come back and just do one. You'd have to plan on four or five.' And I thought, oh, no, that would be the rest of my life. Too much. Too long. So I respectfully declined." When Goldeneye hit theaters in 1995, it was Pierce Brosnan in the starring role.

    This does make more sense of his departure, though there's no mention of MGM/UA wanting him out. Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited February 2018 Posts: 628
    Revelator wrote: »
    This does make more sense of his departure, though there's no mention of MGM/UA wanting him out.

    That's covered in Field & Chowdhury's book Some Kind of Hero.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited February 2018 Posts: 628
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.

    I wish we could read it in full
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.

    I wish we could read it in full

    Or rather see the film.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.

    I wish we could read it in full

    Or rather see the film.

    I see a lot more complicated than we see the movie. But reading a script from 27 years ago, that even the producers do not remember, may be more possible. Take a look:
    https://propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/3381/JAMES-BOND-BOND-17-Draft-Screenplay
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.

    What was the plot of that script, roughly speaking?
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited February 2018 Posts: 628
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    What was the plot of that script, roughly speaking?

    It's loosely based on the Ruggiero/Wilson treatment.

    I've never read it, but there's a brief description of the script in Some Kind of Hero.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    What was the plot of that script, roughly speaking?

    It's loosely based on the Ruggiero/Wilson treatment.

    I've never read it, but there's a brief description of the script in Some Kind of Hero.

    On occasion I have been tempted to contact the authors to ask if they have a copy of that script or how they accessed it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    What was the plot of that script, roughly speaking?

    It's loosely based on the Ruggiero/Wilson treatment.

    I've never read it, but there's a brief description of the script in Some Kind of Hero.

    On occasion I have been tempted to contact the authors to ask if they have a copy of that script or how they accessed it.

    Interesting idea. They're both on Facebook if you want to give that a try.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    Dalton is a far better actor than Brosnan. OK so he isn't quite as good at the one liners but that's not what Fleming's Bond should be about. But the American market just didn't get it unfortunately.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Dalton is a far better actor than Brosnan. OK so he isn't quite as good at the one liners but that's not what Fleming's Bond should be about. But the American market just didn't get it unfortunately.

    Brosnan was bad at the one-liners as well.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Dalton is a far better actor than Brosnan. OK so he isn't quite as good at the one liners but that's not what Fleming's Bond should be about. But the American market just didn't get it unfortunately.

    Very much agreed. Sadly the American market still has such influence from a financial point of view. In any event, Dalton was their loss.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    I reckon EON could make an excellent Logan style old man Bond as a one off and bring back Dalton. It won't happen but I honestly think it could work.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited February 2018 Posts: 18,343
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    I reckon EON could make an excellent Logan style old man Bond as a one off and bring back Dalton. It won't happen but I honestly think it could work.

    Yes, that would be nice as something different. I agree it will probably never see the light of day, mind. In fact, it might be a younger version of what Sir Ian McKellen played as Sherlock Holmes in the excellent Mr Holmes (2015).
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited February 2018 Posts: 628
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    What was the plot of that script, roughly speaking?

    It's loosely based on the Ruggiero/Wilson treatment.

    I've never read it, but there's a brief description of the script in Some Kind of Hero.

    On occasion I have been tempted to contact the authors to ask if they have a copy of that script or how they accessed it.

    I can't speak for either of the authors, but I'm guessing that even if they have a copy of the script, they would be reluctant to distribute it for fear of copyright infringement. If the script changed enough hands, it might even end up for sale on a few websites, which means that people would be making money off someone else's work. It's a sensitive area, and I wouldn't blame them if they turned you down.

    I noticed a couple of days ago that Commander James Bond France (CJB) was tweeting Paul Haggis for a look at his original QOS script. No response yet (at least publicly).
  • moneyofpropre2moneyofpropre2 France
    edited February 2018 Posts: 859
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I noticed a couple of days ago that Commander James Bond France (CJB) was tweeting Paul Haggis for a look at his original QOS script. No response yet (at least publicly).

    Yes I have tried, I have absolutly no hope that it will lead to something, but like we say in France : "who dare nothing, have nothing" (even if I will end up with nothing for sure x) ).

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,343
    moneyofpropre2 wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I noticed a couple of days ago that Commander James Bond France (CJB) was tweeting Paul Haggis for a look at his original QOS script. No response yet (at least publicly).

    Yes I have tried, I have absolutly no hope that it will lead to something, but like we say in France : "who dare nothing, have nothing" (even if I will end up with nothing for sure x) ).

    We have an old saying in English too, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited February 2018 Posts: 628
    Getting back to the Richard Smith story, it would be nice to see EON revive some aspects of the treatment for a future Bond film, especially since so many of the fans would be interested in seeing an updated version of Fleming's YOLT novel.

    Also, with seemingly everyone on the message boards speculating about the name of the next Bond film (Shatterhand, The Property of a Lady, etc.) ... how about Reunion with Death? It's a good title, and I'm a little surprised EON never made use of it.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.

    I wish we could read it in full

    Or rather see the film.

    I see a lot more complicated than we see the movie. But reading a script from 27 years ago, that even the producers do not remember, may be more possible. Take a look:
    https://propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/3381/JAMES-BOND-BOND-17-Draft-Screenplay

    Interesting script pages.
    I wonder if they had any actors in mind to play Sir Henry,Connie etc...does any big DaltonBond fan know ?

  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Also interesting is his statement about having the script ready and that it was "quite a good story." Can any Dalton experts pinpoint which draft/script this was?

    Yes. He's referring to the Bond 17 script by William Osborne and William Davies.

    I wish we could read it in full

    Or rather see the film.

    I see a lot more complicated than we see the movie. But reading a script from 27 years ago, that even the producers do not remember, may be more possible. Take a look:
    https://propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/3381/JAMES-BOND-BOND-17-Draft-Screenplay

    Interesting script pages.
    I wonder if they had any actors in mind to play Sir Henry,Connie etc...does any big DaltonBond fan know ?

    I have no information about it, but it would be curious to know. I think there are no rumors, but I'm not sure.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 46
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Getting back to the Richard Smith story, it would be nice to see EON revive some aspects of the treatment for a future Bond film, especially since so many of the fans would be interested in seeing an updated version of Fleming's YOLT novel.

    Also, with seemingly everyone on the message boards speculating about the name of the next Bond film (Shatterhand, The Property of a Lady, etc.) ... how about Reunion with Death? It's a good title, and I'm a little surprised EON never made use of it.

    It would be great if they recovered some material not used in the past, but I doubt it will happen. Certain titles, plots or characters would be great. I think they can still approximate slightly to discarded ideas.
  • BondishFanlikeBondishFanlike
    Posts: 18
    Podcast featuring the article's writer, describing the treatment in detail, including elements not present in the article.

    Enjoy:

    https://anchor.fm/the-james-bond-complex/episodes/Daltons-Fourth-Reunion-With-Death-e2oeh7
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I am just glad Brosnan and came in and took over.

    Daltons two films were far superior to the Brosnan era. Yes Goldeneye was solid and stylish (despite the awful score), but it’s a ‘middle of the road’/ average Bond film, well directed and with a tone suitable for the times. The 3 following films were (despite commercial success) a low point for Flemings creation.

    Minus the awful cyborg/ robot ideas, I’d have loved a third Dalton film. Licence to Kill was the best Bond film of the 80’s by far.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    BondishFanlike wrote: »
    Podcast featuring the article's writer, describing the treatment in detail, including elements not present in the article.

    Enjoy:

    https://anchor.fm/the-james-bond-complex/episodes/Daltons-Fourth-Reunion-With-Death-e2oeh7

    I'm listening to this now. There's quite a few scenes that found their way into various following Bond films.
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