Detailed gunbarrel music guide + Gunbarrel music ranking game

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,021
    For me, this would have been a better way to musically structure the end of the film. (Without tracking the music from Goldfinger, of course.)

    I just find it more exciting.




    echo wrote: »
    I ranked SF last as well.

    I blame Mendes.
    :))
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    I love it with the GF music!
  • Posts: 93
    Thanks for putting this list together @mattjoes and for all the number crunching.

    I ranked this 24/25 simply because it's tracked from Casino Royale. I don't actually object to the 'bebop' section of the James Bond theme being used for the gun barrel sequence.

    I initially thought Thomas Newman was quite lazy lifting David Arnold's arrangement until I saw the Sound Of 007 documentary where he admitted that he tried his own version, but couldn't best it.

    As an aside, it's so nice to see so many people active in the music section of the forum. It's been really quiet here of late!
  • Posts: 93
    Also @mattjoes have you deliberately timed it so that the winner is revealed on Christmas Day? :D
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    You're welcome.

    I initially thought Thomas Newman was quite lazy lifting David Arnold's arrangement until I saw the Sound Of 007 documentary where he admitted that he tried his own version, but couldn't best it.
    I watched the documentary sometime ago but had forgotten about that! Something like that also happened with the track titled Breadcrumbs. In the film, the opening brass chords recorded by Newman were replaced with the corresponding bit from The Name's Bond...James Bond, from Casino Royale, because the Arnold version clearly sounded better-- more full-bodied and powerful.

    As an aside, it's so nice to see so many people active in the music section of the forum. It's been really quiet here of late!
    Agreed.

    Also @mattjoes have you deliberately timed it so that the winner is revealed on Christmas Day? :D
    Haha! Good thinking, but no, I'm actually going to see how much time I leave between each ranking reveal. I think it depends on how much discussion takes place.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I initially thought Thomas Newman was quite lazy lifting David Arnold's arrangement until I saw the Sound Of 007 documentary where he admitted that he tried his own version, but couldn't best it.
    I watched the documentary sometime ago but had forgotten about that! Something like that also happened with the track titled Breadcrumbs. In the film, the opening brass chords recorded by Newman were replaced with the corresponding bit from The Name's Bond...James Bond, from Casino Royale, because the Arnold version clearly sounded better-- more full-bodied and powerful.

    I think isn't it also that Newman didn't write that piece anyway? It's a big, fast-moving production so they have to get orchestrators to some cues for them, and stuff like that would be the first you'd give to someone else to do because the Bond theme is already written- they just have to make it fit. Like Newman didn't write the casino arrival cue because it's just Adele's tune.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Let's reveal Number 20 in this ranking game...

    CASINO ROYALE



    The highest ranking it achieved was 1st place, and the lowest was 25th place. Apart from that 1st place, it received a 12th and a 15th place, with all other voters ranking it between the 21st and 25th places.

    Casino Royale scored a total of 67 points.

    I ranked it 24th. Once again, great music, but it just can't beat the excitement of the Bond theme!

    What do you think?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Yeah, again for me, I think it's a brilliant sequence and reimagining of the gunbarrel, and it delivers a real punch in the film and I can't really fault it; but this is a list for me of comparing the more standard gunbarrels to each other. So the unusual ones which don't quite conform fall towards the bottom of the list, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're any good.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    I ranked it #15 and only because I include the first couple of notes of YKMN, otherwise it would have ended near the very bottom.
  • My ranking was #12 for much of the same reasons as above.
  • Posts: 93
    So this for me was last place, simply because it's essentially one high note in the violins. I didn't count the first few notes of YKMN.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    So far my list reads the same as the general one, this one also came penultimate for me.

    Just the first notes of the title song. As gunbarrel music, difficult to put any higher.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,021
    Let's go for another reveal. Number 19 is...

    NO TIME TO DIE



    The highest ranking it achieved was 10th place, and the lowest was 22nd place. A couple of voters gave it 10th and 11th places, with the rest of voters ranking it quite closely, between 17th and 22nd place.

    No Time to Die scored a total of 80 points.

    I ranked it 21st. My low ranking is explained partly because I prefer my gunbarrels when they feature the riff of the Bond theme, which this one doesn't (having said that, for me, the NTTD gunbarrel still beats another gunbarrel that does feature the riff, but which I feel is a bit bland). I also ranked NTTD quite low because I feel it doesn't do something new with the Bond theme, except using the guitar, in its traditional Bondian sound, to play the chromatic vamp-- a good idea, for sure, but not that interesting.

    The opening string chords reprised from Spectre are still pretty great, though.

    What about you? Where does NTTD fit in the pantheon of gunbarrel music for you?
  • 19 in my rankings too. I was just hoping for Zimmer to deliver something entirely unique, but to me it sounded more like Newman composing again.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,021
    Yeah, it's a shame, considering most other first-time composers put their own stamp on the gunbarrel music, while Zimmer ended up following the Newman template so closely. Some edgy synths, powerful drums... please, anything to make the arrangement more distinctive. Even an urgent, sixteenth-note bass line played on synths would have been cool. Or segmenting the notes of the chromatic vamp like John Barry used to do in his Moore and Dalton gunbarrels. It's been ages since the films went for that-- not since Barry himself, in fact. It's been so long that it would be refreshing to go back to it today.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    I can't remember where I put this, but I agree that I tend to prefer the ones with the riff (so most of Arnold's end up quite low for me) so I think it probably was fairly low down. Newman's Spectre one I think is a bit more interesting as I quite like all of the slow bleeding in of the vamp over the logos, but this is just the same again.

    Funny really, I don't like it when they just repeat what came before, as with this one, but I like it when they repeat what came before, with the riff and all that! :D
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    I am usually fond of one-time composers giving their unique spin on the Bond theme, and indeed the score to a Bond film as a whole.

    Regretfully, for me, Zimmer does neither, plays it fairly safe and does a journeyman's job without much uniqueness to it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I am usually fond of one-time composers giving their unique spin on the Bond theme, and indeed the score to a Bond film as a whole.

    Regretfully, for me, Zimmer does neither, plays it fairly safe and does a journeyman's job without much uniqueness to it.

    This, exactly.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    The Bond theme arrangement from the OST track titled Back to MI6 displays a bit more originality, what with the heavy drums and the dissonant synth intro. Of course, had they gone for something like that for the gunbarrel, repeating it later in the film would have been less interesting.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,021
    Also, I wouldn't want the music over the film company logos to become a permanent fixture. It's fine occasionally, to shake things up, but if done all the time it would take away from the impact of going from absolute silence to the gunbarrel Bond theme, which is a more valuable thing. At any rate, I hope if Zimmer comes back, he won't stick to the Spectre-NTTD template.

    mtm wrote: »
    Funny really, I don't like it when they just repeat what came before, as with this one, but I like it when they repeat what came before, with the riff and all that! :D
    The riff part of the Bond theme is more dramatic and compelling, thus better suited for the gunbarrel. Sticking to that structure, while inherently repetitive in some ways (and not in others), is not only acceptable, but enjoyable.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    I can totally see why they use the closing motif instead of the riff though- it does make sense, plus it makes the gunbarrel more of a John Barry-originated zone! :D
    Also, it kind of harks back to GoldenEye 64! I think it is pretty dramatic and compelling in itself; I think there's an argument that it's more dramatic than the riff, because it's a bigger statement and has more of a big, powerful full stop to it. I am with you in preferring the riff though!

    I must admit I do like the creeping vamp under the logos though, and wouldn't mind it continuing. Maybe if they come up with a different way of doing it; and certainly none of that Universal logo messing with the graphics!

  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    #18 for me. Serviceable but nothing special.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2023 Posts: 6,297
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Also, I wouldn't want the music over the film company logos to become a permanent fixture. It's fine occasionally, to shake things up, but if done all the time it would take away from the impact of going from absolute silence to the gunbarrel Bond theme, which is a more valuable thing. At any rate, I hope if Zimmer comes back, he won't stick to the Spectre-NTTD template.

    I so agree with you. There has been a slide in the recent films of the logo music "drafting off" the gunbarrel music mystique...like bottom-of-the-screen advertisements interrupting your favorite TV program.

    The essence of the gunbarrel has been lost.

    Give me silence and blackness leading into the gunbarrel music again. Please.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Time for the next reveal of the ranking! Our first tie, for Number 18, is between...

    DIE ANOTHER DAY



    and

    QUANTUM OF SOLACE



    The highest ranking achieved by DAD was 7th place, and the lowest was 24th place. There was 1 vote in the ones, 6 in the tens and 3 in the twenties.

    The highest ranking achieved by QoS was 11th place, and the lowest was 25th place. There were 6 votes in the tens and 4 in the twenties.

    Both films scored a total of 84 points.

    I ranked DAD in the 14th place. Much like the film, this gunbarrel music is about excess (just listen to that drum loop and those heavy drumlike sounds), and, much like the film, this gunbarrel music is a lot of fun, in its ADHD kind of way. Distinctive, too. I especially like that Brosnan finally got to have his big, bold orchestral chords over the moving dots. I wouldn't rank this one higher because other gunbarrels are a bit more elegant in their arrangements, but it's a lot of fun nonetheless.

    I ranked QoS in the 22nd place. Although I like that it features the riff (unlike the other Craig gunbarrels), and the arrangement is quite pleasing to the ear, it's still fairly generic. I actually ranked QoS below NTTD, which has no riff. This is an edge case for me, as I tend to prefer gunbarrels that feature the riff.

    What do you think? You're welcome to compare and contrast these two gunbarrels.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2023 Posts: 16,383
    DAD is fun but I find the sound of the fanfare rather tinny and coarse and there's cymbals crashing all over the place.. I don't really like the sound of it.
    I put QOS towards the bottom of my list, but again mainly because it was an unusual one. It marked the return of the triangle jangling as Bond walks along, just like a Roger gunbarrel, so for that reason alone it can never come last :)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    That was the reason I ranked QoS the highest of Craig's gunbarrels. It played the right part of the theme.

    As for DAD, I get that Arnold was trying to make each gunbarrel unique-sounding like Barry sometimes used to do (see also: TWINE)...I'm just not a fan of this particular arrangement. I think it's trying too hard.
  • DAD was ranked #17 in my rankings, while I placed QOS as dead last. DAD had pretty decent music for its gunbarrel, but perhaps like the rest of the score itself, becomes a tad bit too much “Early 2000’s Techno” for my liking. QOS just goes by incredibly fast, and its musical composition isn’t too different from “The Names Bond, James Bond.”
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    QOS I think sounds the best of all the Craig era.

    DAD I actually really love, I placed it 7th. I like the early 2000 techno-vibes that it has and there’s a lot of energy to it as well.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    mtm wrote: »
    DAD is fun but I find the sound of the fanfare rather tinny and coarse and there's cymbals crashing all over the place.. I don't really like the sound of it.
    I put QOS towards the bottom of my list, but again mainly because it was an unusual one. It marked the return of the triangle jangling as Bond walks along, just like a Roger gunbarrel, so for that reason alone it can never come last :)
    I do like the triangle in Quantum; it was great to hear it again. And actually, I also like the cymbals in Die Another Day.

    GoldenGun wrote: »
    DAD I actually really love, I placed it 7th. I like the early 2000 techno-vibes that it has and there’s a lot of energy to it as well.
    Yeah, and the older I get, the more I like the "2000 techno-vibes."
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,021
    Has anyone noticed that the guitar in the DAD gunbarrel is panned dynamically? (In other words, as it plays, it moves between left and right in the stereo field.) It's like that in the film and the expanded soundtrack released in 2017 by La La Land Records, but not in the 2002 soundtrack album.



    Yet another bit of craziness in this gunbarrel music.
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