Would this Bond film have improved with another actor from the time ? : Quantum of Solace

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  • Posts: 12,837
    bondsum wrote: »
    I haven’t read the script @Thunderfinger. Does it ask Bond to act this way? If so, it therefore could be the script. Maybe certain scenes are missing in between? I know it’s believed that the director should be there to motivate and cajole a performance out of them, but the majority don’t direct this way when handling an A-list actor. They’re meant to be professionals and know what’s expected of them. I believe it might have been shot that way to make a better trailer or an isolated clip. It just doesn’t work particularly well in relation to Paris’ death.

    Well production on TND was apparently messy/rushed/disorganised. Brosnan has said in interviews that he still to this day doesn't understand what the film was about. Which could explain the inconsistency.

    It's also entirely possible imo that he picked up on it but was ignored. He was Cubby's choice and never seemed to have the clout with Barbara that Craig does. He says that he pretty much everything he suggested (tapping into the darker side of Bond's world, Belluci as Paris, etc) was shot down or ignored. Obviously we only have his side of that, but it seems believeable enough to me as he's also been very self depricating and aware of his own failings as Bond too. So don't think he's the type to try and pass the buck and not take any responsibility. I genuinely think he did his best with what he was given, which a lot of the time was nothing at all in terms of character.

    Either way I think it takes a talented actor to make that sort of inconsistency work and Brosnan was the king of that imo. DAD especially would be even more of a shambles than it already is if it wasn't for him. It swings from harder edged post 9/11 Bond to Roger Moore meets Fast and the Furious stuff really wildly and often. One scene he's having a bitter conversation with M about being betrayed, the next he's sauntering into a fancy hotel in his pyjamas. Later he goes from trying to shoot a double agent in the head at point blank range to escaping a giant lazer and surfing a tsunami. I don't think any other Bond actor would have managed to somehow make those tonal shifts feel consistent and part of the same film as well as Brosnan does. Connery is probably the only other one capable of it but he wouldn't have sold it with the same level of conviction imo. He would have felt it was beneath him and phoned it in. But Brosnan, as always, does his very best with what he was given and somehow manages to stop the film from falling apart completely no matter how crap it is.

    All the others had the benefit of getting at least some of their films tailored to their strengths. Brosnan never had that luxury. The scripts are so focused on the gadgets and action scenes that Bond is a blank slate, Moore one minute and Dalton the next. But he made that work. It somehow still feels like the same guy and all that, all the character in his films, comes from his acting. I've always been a fan but I've started to appreciate him more and more over the last couple of years as I've noticed that. Now that Dalton's finally getting the praise he deserves, I think Brosnan is the most underrated Bond.
  • edited March 2019 Posts: 3,333
    Good comments @thelivingroyale. I don’t disagree with you that it’s become the current fashion to lambaste Brosnan for his movies shortcomings. Personally, I don’t think he’s underrated as he’s still very popular outside these forum threads. Dalton most definitely is still underrated with a small cult following. I guess we could also argue that Craig, too, hasn’t been that best served by some of his scripts. Both QoS and SP are equally derided by many fans, here and elsewhere.

    I’m afraid I have to disagree with you about Connery phoning it in. I don’t think Connery has ever phoned it in any movie. I know some here like to use this phrase when discussing DAF, but Connery is on record stating that he liked the script and thought it was very good. Of course you can’t compare it to the first three Connery films, as it’s simply a fun ride on a very thin plot. Connery enjoys camping it up but still has the presence to pull it off. At the same time, his Bond is actually more assertive. I think that’s the most notable difference between Connery and Brosnan’s performances. Brosnan couldn’t do “assertive”. I don’t think he even tried. The frosty exchange between M in GE is the closest we ever got IMO.

    The nearest we got to Brosnan in the BMW car park chase with Connery after the death of a loved one is the Little Nellie aerial dogfight in YOLT. Notice how Connery doesn’t feel compelled to mug the camera in this entire sequence. He keeps it real throughout.
  • edited March 2019 Posts: 12,837
    bondsum wrote: »
    I think that’s the most notable difference between Connery and Brosnan’s performances. Brosnan couldn’t do “assertive”. I don’t think he even tried. The frosty exchange between M in GE is the closest we ever got IMO.

    That's something I never really noticed but is very true. He had the charisma and presence, but definitely didn't have the natural sense of authority/assertiveness that some of the others (particularly Moore and Connery) had. Can't picture him as a naval commander.

    I think that he made up for it though with real passion. Which I think worked in a different way. He was still dangerous but he was less calm and collected, less in control of his emotions. Hot blooded rather than cold blooded. More vulnerable, which suited the direction they were going in. As an example, compare him killing Alec, Kauffman or Elektra to Connery shooting Dent or Craig killing Dryden. He's much less composed, much angrier. Which I know some felt came across as him overacting but I think it worked and played to his strengths as a larger than life sort of actor (I read a review once describing him as a character actor trapped in the body of a leading man, which I don't completely agree with because I do think he does a great job carrying his Bond films, but I do see what they're getting at).
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    bondsum wrote: »
    I think that’s the most notable difference between Connery and Brosnan’s performances. Brosnan couldn’t do “assertive”. I don’t think he even tried. The frosty exchange between M in GE is the closest we ever got IMO.

    That's something I never really noticed but is very true. He had the charisma and presence, but definitely didn't have the natural sense of authority/assertiveness that some of the others (particularly Moore and Connery) had. Can't picture him as a naval commander.

    I think that he made up for it though with real passion. Which I think worked in a different way. He was still dangerous but he was less calm and collected, less in control of his emotions. Hot blooded rather than cold blooded. More vulnerable, which suited the direction they were going in. As an example, compare him killing Alec, Kauffman or Elektra to Connery shooting Dent or Craig killing Dryden. He's much less composed, much angrier. Which I know some felt came across as him overacting but I think it worked and played to his strengths as a larger than life sort of actor (I read a review once describing him as a character actor trapped in the body of a leading man, which I don't completely agree with because I do think he does a great job carrying his Bond films, but I do see what they're getting at).
    I agree with this.

    bondsum wrote: »
    The lighthearted car chase, whilst fun, seems at odds with the death of Paris scene that proceeds it. It’s quite jarring when you think about it. I thought that the death of Aki in YOLT and what follows was handled much better. I think this has to do with the actor and his performance style. Would Connery have played it like a kid in a toy shop using Q’s gadgets in the BMW? No, I believe he would’ve showed more restraint, which was what the scene really called for from him.
    I think Brosnan played the scene the way the scene was intended to be played. It's quite lighthearted even without considering the way Bond acts in it. The guy with the rocket launcher dodging the car, the rocket hitting the wrong car, the re-inflating tires... the tone for it is also set in a previous scene, with the stupid henchmen trying to open the car and getting repeatedly electrocuted.

    If the transition between the death of Paris and the car chase is jarring, I think the structure of the story is to blame, rather than Brosnan. Personally, I find myself quickly forgetting about Paris when the chase begins, so I'm not bothered by the change in tone.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Personally I love TND,the second half isn’t as good but the score and the banter of the film is excellent.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
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  • Posts: 19,339
    437420bc50e76f3df04fff1a9d2a9eea.jpg

    In the day and his prime yes Thundy definitely!!
  • Posts: 19,339
    YOLT now up for discussion,along with the other mentioned films.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    YOLT is a tricky one. My fear would be that...much like the space capsules in the movie...most other actors aside from Connery would have been swallowed up by the scale of the film. So considering it would be the debut of a new Bond I would say it wouldn't be successful with anyone else. However, if it was placed after OHMSS...absolutely could have been done with another Bond actor. Especially Moore who has his own version with TSWLM.
  • edited April 2019 Posts: 17,755
    YOLT is indeed a difficult one. I can't see how Moore undercover as a Japanese fisherman could have worked, but other than that, maybe he could've done a good job with YOLT. He was already successful as The Saint, so I have no doubt many would have been interested to see him take on Bond at the height of his fame as Simon Templar. It's a fairly lighthearted film as well, so it would have suited his Bond persona too.

    A Brosnan YOLT could have been interesting too.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    I was thinking Moore for YOLT but then i kept picturing George Lazenby in certain scenes and i think he would have been great in the film. Not saying he would have improved over Connery however.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    bondsum wrote: »
    I think that’s the most notable difference between Connery and Brosnan’s performances. Brosnan couldn’t do “assertive”. I don’t think he even tried. The frosty exchange between M in GE is the closest we ever got IMO.

    That's something I never really noticed but is very true. He had the charisma and presence, but definitely didn't have the natural sense of authority/assertiveness that some of the others (particularly Moore and Connery) had. Can't picture him as a naval commander.

    I think that he made up for it though with real passion. Which I think worked in a different way. He was still dangerous but he was less calm and collected, less in control of his emotions. Hot blooded rather than cold blooded. More vulnerable, which suited the direction they were going in. As an example, compare him killing Alec, Kauffman or Elektra to Connery shooting Dent or Craig killing Dryden. He's much less composed, much angrier. Which I know some felt came across as him overacting but I think it worked and played to his strengths as a larger than life sort of actor (I read a review once describing him as a character actor trapped in the body of a leading man, which I don't completely agree with because I do think he does a great job carrying his Bond films, but I do see what they're getting at).

    I think this is an excellent assessment.

    I completely agree on your point about matching Connery and Moore's assertiveness. What he lacks in that, he makes up for in quiet fury. Very good comments here.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    I agree on a Moore or maybe even a Brosnan YOLT. Not saying they would have been better, but I could see it. Not so much with Lazenby, Dalton or Craig.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited April 2019 Posts: 3,497
    You don't even have know much about the production to notice that he was sick of it.

    Partially of course because of the constant harassing by the Japanese press.

    And apparently, his relationship with the producers was very bad, to the point that he didn't want to work when they were on set. Can anyone confirm this?

    Funny and yet...:

    After this movie wrapped, Connery was reportedly asked whether he found Japanese women attractive, to which he allegedly replied, "No", causing many Japanese people to call him bad names.

    This faux pas turned out to be based on a mistranslation, on a day when Connery was exhausted after an intensive day's filming.

    Connery didn't go out of his way to be too personable with the interviewer who was aghast that the actor showed up in a casual t-shirt with baggy trousers and sandals, and not wearing a toupée. "Is this how James Bond dresses?" he asked, to which Connery replied tersely "I'm not James Bond, I'm Sean Connery, a man who likes to dress comfortably."

    Someone also needs to confirm this:

    "Bond Producer Barbara Broccoli grew up in the behind-the-scenes world of James Bond, and as a child during location shooting in Japan for this movie, she caught a fever from the Japanese custom of sleeping on the floor.

    Sir Sean Connery's star status provided him with a comfortable bed, and he generously relinquished it, so she could properly fight her illness."

    Source: teh interwebs & IMDB.





    And oh yeah... Dahl should've stayed very far away from Bond.

  • AleanderAleander Kavala, Greece
    Posts: 33
    Without question, Sean Connery for OHMSS is a given. Just think the same movie, but suddenly Connery decided to come back after a surprise offer by UA and Lazenby gets the boot.

    Roger Moore for OHMSS (far less comedic than his usual self, but closer to Connery at first glance)

    Sean Connery for FYEO

    Timothy Dalton for the entirety of Brosnan's entries

    Pierce Brosnan for the entirety of Daniel Craig's entries.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Octopussy is now open for discussion,peeps.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,207
    Octopussy would have been a perfect curtain call for Roger. It was perfectly suited to his strengths.
  • Posts: 17,755
    Difficult thinking of anyone but Roger in OP, as he's great in it. I'm sure Dalton could have done a great job though. There are enough dramatic moments throughout the film, and I think he could have been fantastic in those.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    I could only really see Sir Roger in Octopussy. I don't really think that any other Bond actor could have pulled it off with such aplomb.

    It's one of Moore's best films and performances as Bond and I've loved it since I first saw it on video in 1996! The title was just made for the Moore era, too. All in all, a perfect fit for Moore.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    OP is pure Rog. No other Bond actor could have pulled off what he did.

    Wearing a clown costume and still making one of the most suspenseful moments in the series. Class.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Who are your alternative suggestions @barryt007? There's Ian Ogilvy and James Brolin who were top of the list, although strangely we only saw Brolin's screen test and not Ogilvy's. Come to think of it we haven't even seen Brosnan's screen test for TLD apart from that 1986 still Brosnan shared with the internet of him reenacting that moment from OHMSS.
    22730349_10154945492422091_1130825377812772898_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=81075001e6516cb947dbc72beef33b85&oe=5D6755E7
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    No, OP was tailor-made for Moore. Ditto TSWLM.

    YOLT is a tougher one. So much spectacle, so little acting required. I could easily see Moore or Dalton dropped into that one...
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2019 Posts: 13,978
    David Warbeck. Not only would he have brought his own ruggedly smooth style, but I have no doubt that he would have been a fine ambassador for the series, once he stepped down. Warbeck did have talks with EON in 1980, about talking over from Moore, he talks about it in his book.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Octopussy is ARGUABLY Rog's finest hour. Near perfection. Leave it alone!
  • Posts: 11,425
    echo wrote: »
    No, OP was tailor-made for Moore. Ditto TSWLM.

    YOLT is a tougher one. So much spectacle, so little acting required. I could easily see Moore or Dalton dropped into that one...

    Dalton?!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    One thing is certain. It would have deteriorated massively with Brolin.
  • Posts: 7,417
    One thing is certain. It would have deteriorated massively with Brolin.

    Agreed. That screentest is awfu!
    OP was perfect for Rog!
  • edited May 2019 Posts: 3,333
    If by having a totally different actor playing 007 they'd remove the dreadful Tarzan yell, along with the Barbara Woodhouse "sit!" line, Vijay's tennis racket mini-tournament during the Tuk Tuk chase, Bozo the clown, Stephen Berkoff's hammy performance, and Bond zooming in a pair of breasts while testing out his Casio TV watch—then I wouldn't have a problem seeing a different actor playing Bond... so long as it wasn't Brolin.

    Had my own choice—Lewis Collins—made FYEO instead of Moore, then OP would've been a very different movie tonally, especially with Collins reprising his role. Also, as an avid paying customer during the Eighties at the B.O. I can honestly say I'd gladly forfeit seeing Moore in OP if it had given us a more grounded Bond movie than the one we got.

    As it stands, OP was tailored to suit Moore, as was the entire movie. OP is mostly played for s**ts and giggles. With some tweaks made here and there to the script, and a slightly different supporting cast (neither Berkoff nor Adams in their respective roles), I believe OP could've been a really great Bond movie with the right actor portraying 007. Kamal’s visually striking henchman and bodyguard, Gobinda, really deserved a much better foe than the self-effacing Moore (or his obvious stunt double).

    Oh, and another thing. No bloody Rita Coolidge! Duran Duran should've really done this one, or at least Ultravox.
  • Posts: 787
    Difficult thinking of anyone but Roger in OP, as he's great in it. I'm sure Dalton could have done a great job though. There are enough dramatic moments throughout the film, and I think he could have been fantastic in those.

    That's my first thought too - given a time machine, I think Dalton could pull it off. There's plenty of intensity in the film (especially the bomb countdown, but other stuff too) that would suit him perfectly. And with a thoughtful director you could tone down a bit of Moore's camp to suit Dalts.

    To my mind the bigger problems with OP are nothing to do with the leading man and everything to do with mid-period EON's habit of chucking in every single passing idea. (As noted above, the tennis, the snake charming, the tv watch, tarzan, "sit!", the hot air balloon, etc etc etc.)
  • edited May 2019 Posts: 17,755
    octofinger wrote: »
    Difficult thinking of anyone but Roger in OP, as he's great in it. I'm sure Dalton could have done a great job though. There are enough dramatic moments throughout the film, and I think he could have been fantastic in those.

    That's my first thought too - given a time machine, I think Dalton could pull it off. There's plenty of intensity in the film (especially the bomb countdown, but other stuff too) that would suit him perfectly. And with a thoughtful director you could tone down a bit of Moore's camp to suit Dalts.

    To my mind the bigger problems with OP are nothing to do with the leading man and everything to do with mid-period EON's habit of chucking in every single passing idea. (As noted above, the tennis, the snake charming, the tv watch, tarzan, "sit!", the hot air balloon, etc etc etc.)

    Indeed, there are some thrilling moments in OP, and the bomb countdown is one of the best examples of this. I can imagine Dalton bringing some great intensity to this scene.

    Agree, there's a lot of stuff going on in OP. It works (IMO) because Roger was always capable of navigating these moments with ease. Not sure a different actor could do the same.
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