No Time to Die production thread

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  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I’m surprised they did the nomi as 007 angle after Oberhauser stepbrother

    What is the correlation between the two things?
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    It's like a job title. Obviously it's going to be given to someone else when he retires.

    It's not that obvious since Fleming's books actally imply that a new agent always gets a number that no agent has ever used.
    Plus, in Fleming´s novels, IRRC there were only three or four 00 agents in total.

    Yep, which means there couldn't be a 007 to begin with unless a new agent was given a new number; thus, according to the books, when an agent replaces another one they're not given their predecessor's number, otherwise we'd only know 001, 002 and 003.

    Now, I was not using this as an argument to fuel another "only Bond should be 007" discussion; I honestly and sincerely don't want that since that would lead to pretty much nothing (except arguing for the sake of it). I was just pointing out that it is not so obvious that the 007 title would be given to someone else. Possible, but not obvious.
    The Cuban scenes will feature a chase with Cuban policemen chasing Bond and Paloma in a 'fast-paced' night scene. The police will drive Ladas.

    Ah, damnit. I'm not a fan of the "police chases good guy" scenes.
  • Posts: 1,680
    Craig May well have been exhausted. He probably worked from April to October 25th non stop
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 5,767
    mtm wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I’m surprised they did the nomi as 007 angle after Oberhauser stepbrother

    What is the correlation between the two things?
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    It's like a job title. Obviously it's going to be given to someone else when he retires.

    It's not that obvious since Fleming's books actally imply that a new agent always gets a number that no agent has ever used.
    Plus, in Fleming´s novels, IRRC there were only three or four 00 agents in total.


    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I’m surprised they did the nomi as 007 angle after Oberhauser stepbrother

    What is the correlation between the two things?
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    It's like a job title. Obviously it's going to be given to someone else when he retires.

    It's not that obvious since Fleming's books actally imply that a new agent always gets a number that no agent has ever used.

    I think the ‘sticking to the exact word of Fleming’ ship sailed in 1962. Probably around the second James Bond was shown to work for MI7 :D
    Recent Bond films made a point of going back to Fleming, in fact they tried to put elements on screen that weren´t part of film Bond but were akin to literary Bond.

    Like him living in a house called Skyfall or growing up with Blofeld as his brother? :D
    You have not found proof that it’s impossible they’d give anyone else the 007 number, no :)
    As if that had been my intention.

  • matt_u wrote: »
    Sure, but wouldn't fell weird? Wouldn't feel forced, just as a concept? Like a step back? Like "we don't have the balls to go this way"? People will think: "Yeah, that Nomi thing didn't make sense, fortunately they changed their minds".
    I agree with you. It's not really like the Joseph Gordon-Levitt in The Dark Knight Rises thing because this is one franchise following the same character. And I do think people will see it as a cop out if she's not remaining as 007 for the next films.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    matt_u wrote: »
    Sure, but wouldn't fell weird? Wouldn't feel forced, just as a concept? Like a step back? Like "we don't have the balls to go this way"? People will think: "Yeah, that Nomi thing didn't make sense, fortunately they changed their minds".
    I agree with you. It's not really like the Joseph Gordon-Levitt in The Dark Knight Rises thing because this is one franchise following the same character. And I do think people will see it as a cop out if she's not remaining as 007 for the next films.

    Like @Denbigh said, in the end the execution is what really matters. But even if they’d be able to handle this concept in a great manner, going this route it will always seem (at least to me, but I feel a lot of people would agree) like throwing a bone to all the “black Bond, female Bond” narrative. It’s good for the franchise to reflect times, like it always did, it’s good to be ahead of the curve, but as a fan I’m worried about how natural and seamless within the narrative those strong choices will feel.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2019 Posts: 5,970
    matt_u wrote: »
    Sure, but wouldn't fell weird? Wouldn't feel forced, just as a concept? Like a step back? Like "we don't have the balls to go this way"? People will think: "Yeah, that Nomi thing didn't make sense, fortunately they changed their minds".
    I agree with you. It's not really like the Joseph Gordon-Levitt in The Dark Knight Rises thing because this is one franchise following the same character. And I do think people will see it as a cop out if she's not remaining as 007 for the next films.
    Again, I think that really depends on how it’s handled. If NTTD gives her a good arc, and a good enough reason to be in the film in the first place, people won’t need to see it as a cop out. Whereas if they sell the films ending as Nomi’s possible continuation then I’ll understand possible confusion, but for now, all bets are off and we’ll just have to see what they do.

    And I’m afraid @matt_u, that’s a product of the business. It’s always hard to know why someone was cast or why a certain character has been written into a script. For example, have people started using more representation for black people in their films because they can see it’s been a genuine problem in the past and want our films to reflect the times, or because they want to capitalise on Black Panther’s success financially and critically? Who can say? But what we can do is give them a chance and see what they have to offer because it’s only then we’ll be able to see which one they were going for.
  • Denbigh wrote: »
    Again, I think that really depends on how it’s handled. If NTTD gives her a good arc, and a good enough reason to be in the film in the first place, people won’t need to see it as a cop out. Whereas if they sell the films ending as Nomi’s possible continuation then I’ll understand possible confusion, but for now, all bets are off and we’ll just have to see what they do.
    But I'm not debating whether she will be a good character in the film. I never have.

    What I'm disputing is the decision of putting her as the 007 at the end of the film especially if they decide to kill Bond, only to reboot the franchise with Bond as 007 the next film. I don't think it's a great one.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    matt_u wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    On a side note, I can see the movie ending with Nomi being 007 only if EoN plans to sell the property.

    If they do that they might as well give it away for free, cause no one will want it.

    Without mentioning that Ian Fleming's works will enter public domain in 2035...

    But James Bond 007 will remain trademarked, so good luck making a Fleming film without him! :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    boldfinger wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I’m surprised they did the nomi as 007 angle after Oberhauser stepbrother

    What is the correlation between the two things?
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    It's like a job title. Obviously it's going to be given to someone else when he retires.

    It's not that obvious since Fleming's books actally imply that a new agent always gets a number that no agent has ever used.
    Plus, in Fleming´s novels, IRRC there were only three or four 00 agents in total.


    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I’m surprised they did the nomi as 007 angle after Oberhauser stepbrother

    What is the correlation between the two things?
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    It's like a job title. Obviously it's going to be given to someone else when he retires.

    It's not that obvious since Fleming's books actally imply that a new agent always gets a number that no agent has ever used.

    I think the ‘sticking to the exact word of Fleming’ ship sailed in 1962. Probably around the second James Bond was shown to work for MI7 :D
    Recent Bond films made a point of going back to Fleming, in fact they tried to put elements on screen that weren´t part of film Bond but were akin to literary Bond.

    Like him living in a house called Skyfall or growing up with Blofeld as his brother? :D
    You have not found proof that it’s impossible they’d give anyone else the 007 number, no :)
    As if that had been my intention.

    If it wasn’t then I can’t see any point in your post :)
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2019 Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Again, I think that really depends on how it’s handled. If NTTD gives her a good arc, and a good enough reason to be in the film in the first place, people won’t need to see it as a cop out. Whereas if they sell the films ending as Nomi’s possible continuation then I’ll understand possible confusion, but for now, all bets are off and we’ll just have to see what they do.
    But I'm not debating whether she will be a good character in the film. I never have. What I'm disputing is the decision of putting her as the 007 at the end of the film especially if they decide to kill Bond, only to reboot the franchise with Bond as 007 the next film. I don't think it's a great one.
    Oh I know, and I think it still applies. I just mean, as @matt_u quoted me on above, "in the end the execution is what really matters," and while the idea you've just mentioned could happen, although I personally think not a lot of it will (especially Bond's death imo), it really depends on the characters, the script, and the direction.

    For example, the whole brother thing from Spectre was well disliked by a lot of us here, including myself, but we must admit that the idea could've possibly worked with a different script, different actors, or better direction? It's hard to say, but it's also hard to say whether NTTD will be the time that the ideas/concepts you've mentioned @JamesCraig don't work. Again, all bets are off :)
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited November 2019 Posts: 5,185
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Again, I think that really depends on how it’s handled. If NTTD gives her a good arc, and a good enough reason to be in the film in the first place, people won’t need to see it as a cop out. Whereas if they sell the films ending as Nomi’s possible continuation then I’ll understand possible confusion, but for now, all bets are off and we’ll just have to see what they do.
    But I'm not debating whether she will be a good character in the film. I never have.

    What I'm disputing is the decision of putting her as the 007 at the end of the film especially if they decide to kill Bond, only to reboot the franchise with Bond as 007 the next film. I don't think it's a great one.

    That's why i honestly don't believe they will go for that.
    Also it's just one possible option out of countless others, of how this movie could end. Why are we getting so fixated on this one scenario? "Nomi taking over"?

    We still have no idea about the context of the film.
    The whole notion of "Nomi taking over the 007 designation" or "Nomi taking over the film" or in this case Nomi taking over the ending of the film, without any context given to her character so far (outside of tabloid crap) rather shows me that there is a real concern among fans that this film will have some sort of Pandering in it. That she might be some sort of feminist symbolism to be shoved in Bond's face (and ours), because some movies have attempted something similar in the past, or a lot actually.

    I think we should call it what it is, because i don't like beating around the bush. But my opinion still stands:

    When it comes to depicting feminism (feminine is the word i prefer, and really the only one that should be used here) and and progressive female characters in films WITHOUT pandering or making it painfully obvious, there is really no one who can outsmart Barbara Broccoli and her team imo. Best example is Goldeneye, and every movie after that, with CR being another high point. Women and sexappeal are really the lifeblood of these films, as far as i'm concerned. And Bond has to remain a certain way to make it all work. He will always be in control of any situation.

    What pisses me of the most in this discussion is that people, especially on Youtube, actually believe that NTTD might stoop to sewer level garbage like Ghostbusters (2016) and Terminator Dark Fate pandering, even though EoN has already assembled a team for NTTD that all the other productions could only dream of. I know everyone around here is edgy and doesn't care about oscars, but the track record of this team speaks for itself. Even down to the oscar winning film editor (I actually watched a couple of his films because i was so intrigued). These are quality filmmakers, i am not really worried that they will provide a quality film with substance and proper context.

    My only worry is that this discussion keeps spiraling out of control to the point where people won't listen to reason anymore. I just hope the trailer will shut everybody up lol.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Dark Fate was pandering? I get worried by this fandom.
  • I could not care less about this debate. My main reasons for thinking she should be another 00 are 1. to avoid this debate, 2. because I like having another/ other 00 agents appear, 3. because I don't want a spin-off or a female bond film, 4. because I don't want the public to expect #3. Could not care less about someone else being 007 at some point in the film beyond these reasons.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    mtm wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    On a side note, I can see the movie ending with Nomi being 007 only if EoN plans to sell the property.

    If they do that they might as well give it away for free, cause no one will want it.

    Without mentioning that Ian Fleming's works will enter public domain in 2035...

    But James Bond 007 will remain trademarked, so good luck making a Fleming film without him! :)

    Well they’re already making a film where PWB’s James Bond is not 007...

    Kidding :D
  • Posts: 727
    If we don't see a steamy foursome with Bond, Nomi, Armas and the bird from the last film, what's the point?
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 17,756
    It will be fun to see if those Youtubers etc. that are most critical towards the rumours that's followed this production as far as feminism, Nomi etc. goes, will admit to overreacting if the film depicts the female characters in a good way (like most of us surely hope and believe they will).
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I think we've got something special on our hands here.

    This just feels right, they know they have to knock it out the park after SPECTRE.

    The pedigree as @00Agent says above speaks for itself. Cary is going to deliver and then some and I think Daniel has given it is all and we don't even have a hint of what Malek has done.

    Exciting hardly covers it, the anticipation for the trailer alone is at fever pitch.

    They'll be those that will never be satisfied till Craig is gone but I think for the most part the majority of us are in for a real treat.

    Nobody does it better.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2019 Posts: 5,970
    It will be fun to see if those Youtubers etc. that are most critical towards the rumours that's followed this production as far as feminism, Nomi etc. goes, will admit to overreacting if the film depicts the female characters in a good way (like most of us surely hope and believe they will).
    I actually think a lot of with them will try to stand by their words @Torgeirtrap, even if they are proved wrong by the film... but I think they've got very heated about it, and that will likely cloud their judgement going in, which is another reason why it's so important to keep an open mind.
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Exciting hardly covers it, the anticipation for the trailer alone is at fever pitch.
    ...and @Shardlake, it is funny seeing every post made on the 007 Twitter being replied with "Where's the trailer?" and "So about that trailer?" :D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    It will be fun to see if those Youtubers etc. that are most critical towards the rumours that's followed this production as far as feminism, Nomi etc. goes, will admit to overreacting if the film depicts the female characters in a good way (like most of us surely hope and believe they will).

    They typically don't. They just get quiet and move onto complaining about something else in order to pander to MRA subscribers. What's funny to me is that after they were hyping up James Cameron as the true author of strong women with the film ALITA just a few months ago, they then complain about him doing it in DARK FATE.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 17,756
    Denbigh wrote: »
    It will be fun to see if those Youtubers etc. that are most critical towards the rumours that's followed this production as far as feminism, Nomi etc. goes, will admit to overreacting if the film depicts the female characters in a good way (like most of us surely hope and believe they will).
    I actually think a lot of with them will try to stand by their words @Torgeirtrap, even if they are proved wrong by the film... but I think they've got very heated about it, and that will likely cloud their judgement going in, which is another reason why it's so important to keep an open mind.

    @Denbigh That wouldn't surprise me actually (there was even one guy wanting people to boycott the film a while back, I think…). But if they're proven wrong they will just end up looking stupid, while the rest of us can enjoy yet another entry of the series.
    It will be fun to see if those Youtubers etc. that are most critical towards the rumours that's followed this production as far as feminism, Nomi etc. goes, will admit to overreacting if the film depicts the female characters in a good way (like most of us surely hope and believe they will).

    They typically don't. They just get quiet and move onto complaining about something else in order to pander to MRA subscribers. What's funny to me is that after they were hyping up James Cameron as the true author of strong women with the film ALITA just a few months ago, they then complain about him doing it in DARK FATE.

    Good point; there's always something for them to complain about.

    What were the complaints about Dark Fate?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Good point; there's always something for them to complain about.

    What were the complaints about Dark Fate?

    Basically they didn't like the feminism featured in the film, that the men were "emasculated" and so on. That kind of silly nonsense.

    I also suspect that it's also because there were also more women heroes in the cast than there used to be in past Terminator films (three women, and one man who's really a cyborg). Contrast that to a few months ago when they were championing ALITA, which happened to only have one female role and a lot of men who basically guide her to becoming a hero.

    If I have anything critical to say about the film, I do think the feminist themes in DARK FATE were a little more hamfisted than in previous Cameron productions. Otherwise, it's a pretty decent film, but nothing really reaches the original two films.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    mtm wrote: »
    Dark Fate was pandering? I get worried by this fandom.

    Totally. I usually don't like to use that word but I don't know how else you can describe Dark Fate.
    John was killed only for a girl character to take his place, so much so that even Sarah says "She's John". Not to mention the immigration politics are very on the nose ("I wish you weren't so white" ugh, what a shirty dialogue) which kinda proves that Miller was more interested in making a pandering movie than writing a compelling story.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Eh, James Cameron is as responsible for those elements, probably more so than Tim Miller.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,216
    James ( Cameron) is very “ enlightened “ these days . The irony is that he elevated Ellen Ripley’s status as a strong , commanding character without the heavy handedness of his more recent films and it was much more effective.
    As far as skin color and immigration, it’s got nothing to do with it.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 4,409
    Jeez....just imagine if GE came out in 2019, with a female M calling Bond a misogynistic dinosaur and Moneypenny saying his behaviour equates to sexual harassment in the workplace.

    We have had a “woke” Bond for over 24 years now. (Plus, the Mail article confirms there is an erection joke, surely we can rest assured the Roger Moore-isms haven’t gone either)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Jeez....just imagine if GE came out in 2019, with a female M calling Bond a misogynistic dinosaur and Moneypenny saying his behaviour equates to sexual harassment in the workplace.

    tumblr_pmw162vr8j1rn314mo1_540.gifv
  • Posts: 1,680
    As long as bond does Armas similar to severine or Lucia I’ll be happy
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    My money is on Bond not sleeping with anyone with this film.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2019 Posts: 5,970
    My money is on Bond not sleeping with anyone with this film.
    Not that it matters that much really, but I imagine he'll "bed" Lea Seydoux at some point.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Oh, he'll lay her body to rest all right.
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