No Time to Die production thread

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,413
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).

    Ah; sorry I meant Bond villains but yes indeed, you make a good point. I guess Thanos very much copied Drax’s plan when you think about it! :)

    Certainly it makes a change for Craig: his other villains have been motivated by greed or revenge.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).

    Ah; sorry I meant Bond villains but yes indeed, you make a good point. I guess Thanos very much copied Drax’s plan when you think about it! :)

    Certainly it makes a change for Craig: his other villains have been motivated by greed or revenge.

    Fair play! I don't remember Moonraker the film that extensively at the moment but I do remember the novel and I know Drax' motivations there certainly were not for the betterment of humankind ;) There's an interesting article about Fleming's take on the seven deadly sins (and his seven deadlier sins) that has floated around this forum from time to time, that provides an interesting insight into the characteristics and motivations he gave his villains.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,413
    Oh yes I certainly meant film Drax rather than book Drax, you’re quite right! :)

    The deadly sins thing certainly rings a distant bell.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I definitely need to continue to refine my knowledge of film Bond!
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    TripAces wrote: »
    79542538_1032483787113621_1710220222853039952_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=LPeoRqAhs94AX8L9mi9&oh=ca39dff14aa04e5de0e9b2cbdc996b46&oe=5EA76EF7
    With this big standee up in the foyer of my local cinema, I suddenly got the feeling it is right around the corner now.

    When I see this standee, I can't help but think the concerns over Nomi being 007 are completely overblown. THIS MAN IS 007.

    No he isn't Nomi is what a disaster for publicity
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I suspect it’ll be in the papers and on magazine covers when they finally do announce it. Which’ll be great publicity.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,126
    mtm wrote: »
    I suspect it’ll be in the papers and on magazine covers when they finally do announce it. Which’ll be great publicity.

    Really everyone who doesn't know Bond will think he has turned into a female.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    the media will try and hype that, @007Blofeld ... but when Joe Public reads reviews, when they see the film, they will understand that this is a film with a retired James Bond. His double-0 will be re-assigned to someone new-- that's all.

    I have to doubt that any swath of people will think they're seeing a new James Bond film with Nomi (look at the posters, stands and previews)...

    I swear to the heavens above, that if Fleming lived long enough, he would have played with this concept; Bond would have been replaced and been witness to this replacement (shoot down in .. three... two...)... I say this because it creates dramatic irony. And IMHO, Mr. Fleming was a descriptive artist and basked in dramatic irony.....
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    the media will try and hype that, @007Blofeld ... but when Joe Public reads reviews, when they see the film, they will understand that this is a film with a retired James Bond. His double-0 will be re-assigned to someone new-- that's all.

    I have to doubt that any swath of people will think they're seeing a new James Bond film with Nomi (look at the posters, stands and previews)...

    I swear to the heavens above, that if Fleming lived long enough, he would have played with this concept; Bond would have been replaced and been witness to this replacement (shoot down in .. three... two...)... I say this because it creates dramatic irony. And IMHO, Mr. Fleming was a descriptive artist and basked in dramatic irony.....

    If they still want to see the film after its spoiled. I'm not sure about that but he would have done it in his books but he didn't oh well doesn't matter he is dead. The 007 logo will look very jarring now I guess.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 524
    I strongly feel that if Nomi is the new 007, they will not state that before the film is in theaters. They won’t announce anything. Why change the strategy? They have been very purposefully avoiding saying the actual number, instead they keep saying she’s a double-oh. They do not say which one. I don’t see why they would come out and say what her number is. She could be 007. She could be 009, probably with a better taste in music than her predecessor.

    As for the marketing, that’s completely separate from whatever happens in the film. Of course we’ll see Daniel Craig in front of a giant 007. It’s the franchise’s logo. There is no ‘James Bond’ word mark, there’s only the 007. So it will be used on posters with Craig in front. It will probably be projected behind him at the premiere, along with the title. But this is just marketing and brand recognition, as the logo represents the brand. It has no influence on the story of the film.

    Unless they change their entire marketing plan, they’ll use the 007 logo on everything. I had hoped for a bold move with posters featuring Bond and Nomi and text like ‘Daniel Craig IS James Bond / Lashana Lynch IS 007’. But everything, from the trailer over the posters to any interview with Craig or Lynch, tells me they won’t use it as a marketing ploy.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    mtm wrote: »
    I finally just watched the EW coffee table vid: it is funny how they pointedly refer to Nomi as ‘a double O agent’- I know there’s little doubt she’s 007 but if she was 004 or something they’d just say it (like Trevelyn was called 006 in all of the publicity for GE): she’s absolutely 007! :D

    The stuff about Safin wanting to fix one of humanity’s biggest problems is an interesting one: there aren’t many villains like that. Maybe Drax and Stromberg but that’s about it..?

    Could be a Thanos thing; lowering the burden on Earth's finite resources by drastically reducing the number of those relying on them maybe? I know there are other examples of this but Thanos is the only one I can think of right now.
    EDIT: Kingsman The Secret Service was about this as well IIRC (the graphic novel, anyways).
    Also Inferno starring Tom Hanks.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    peter wrote: »
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!

    True but I don't think Fleming cared as much about the "branding" of the character as EON do. Also, I feel as though YOLT was to be the last James Bond story, so it wouldn't have mattered how they left Bond.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!

    @peter and he always came back and wasn't dead the thing is no one else was or is 007 then James Bond and everything is labeled James Bond 007 if he isn't 007 anymore why not chop off the 007 at least for this film but nope just confuse people. Not trying to argue :) I just don't get it all seems like a gimmick and what's the point of having her in the film then to just be a gimmick that doesn't make sense either they teased 009 in Spectre why not just make her that. All this seems a bit mushy maybe a second trailer will help clear things up or something I don't know.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    All I can say @007Blofeld .... is it works for THIS story. And trust me: I know you’re not arguing! You n I have had too many good exchanges.

    All I can say is, let the story unfold

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    peter wrote: »
    All I can say @007Blofeld .... is it works for THIS story. And trust me: I know you’re not arguing! You n I have had too many good exchanges.

    All I can say is, let the story unfold

    @peter ok that's true we will have to see.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 11,425
    peter wrote: »
    @007Blofeld , Fleming left us guessing-- in FRWL was James Bond dying in those final pages?-- seemed so.

    In YOLT, he almost dies... but is instead badly concussed with amnesia and wanders off into the lion's den (Vladivostok-- where one is to believe he is sure to die!)

    And speaking of YOLT, James Bond IS NO LONGER AGENT 007, but is..., DIPLOMATIC MEMBER 7777...

    So, Fukunanga is in tune with Fleming insofar as pushing Bond out of the service and re-identifying him...

    So, this idea that James Bond is no longer 007 was done by the man himself when he re-numbered Bond as 7777 (a diplomatic agent, not a licence to kill!!)!!

    Interesting. Well surely this lays to bed any accusations that NTTD is trashing Fleming.

    I've never read them but it does sound like the last couple of novels were increasingly whacky. There probably isn't much Fleming wouldn't have considered doing with the character. Esp if it paid his bills, which let's face it, was one of his prime motivations for writing the books in the first place.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I strongly feel that if Nomi is the new 007, they will not state that before the film is in theaters. They won’t announce anything. Why change the strategy? They have been very purposefully avoiding saying the actual number, instead they keep saying she’s a double-oh. They do not say which one. I don’t see why they would come out and say what her number is. She could be 007. She could be 009, probably with a better taste in music than her predecessor.

    Oh I reckon they’ll use it in publicity. It’s just too good a story, and we all want to see how James Bond reacts to being replaced by a woman. Casino Royale was the one where he gets the 007 number, this is the one where someone else has got it.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    I strongly feel that if Nomi is the new 007, they will not state that before the film is in theaters. They won’t announce anything. Why change the strategy? They have been very purposefully avoiding saying the actual number, instead they keep saying she’s a double-oh. They do not say which one. I don’t see why they would come out and say what her number is. She could be 007. She could be 009, probably with a better taste in music than her predecessor.

    Oh I reckon they’ll use it in publicity. It’s just too good a story, and we all want to see how James Bond reacts to being replaced by a woman. Casino Royale was the one where he gets the 007 number, this is the one where someone else has got it.

    Yeah, the flip coin thing....maybe it might just be done properly. And Scott Z. Burns did say Bond fans will like what comes next....not that am taking his word for it, but I guess there's no harm in being optimistic.
  • Posts: 3,164
    A ‘reveal’ of Nomi being 007 and Bond’s reaction to that would be quite a water cooler moment for a second trailer or a Super Bowl spot...
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,126
    antovolk wrote: »
    A ‘reveal’ of Nomi being 007 and Bond’s reaction to that would be quite a water cooler moment for a second trailer or a Super Bowl spot...

    It will be interesting what more they show and how long the trailer will be. I guess I wonder why everyone enjoys an upset Bond I prefer him in a good confident mood. License to kill was good for having him upset but this trope in this era is a bit overkill.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Everybody already assumed she’s the new 007. I don’t see the point of saving this revelation for the film at this stage. Lots of people I talked even (wrongly) presume she will take the reign in the sequel. Perhaps they won’t do it because the don’t want to sell the film as the “black powerful woman 007 installment”, because that’s the real story for the media regarding NTTD.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    antovolk wrote: »
    A ‘reveal’ of Nomi being 007 and Bond’s reaction to that would be quite a water cooler moment for a second trailer or a Super Bowl spot...
    Yeah, very good point.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,164
    matt_u wrote: »
    Everybody already assumed she’s the new 007. I don’t see the point of saving this revelation for the film at this stage. Lots of people I talked even (wrongly) presume she will take the reign in the sequel. Perhaps they won’t do it because the don’t want to sell the film as the “black powerful woman 007 installment”, because that’s the real story for the media regarding NTTD.

    I'd say it's not really a bad thing though if that is the media's story...and the aim is to shake off the past chauvinistic reputation of the franchise.

    All eyes will be on Rhythm Section's box office next weekend - it may just end up proving to Barbara/EON that if you want to make a cinematic event out of this the IP connection is crucial. I've had conversations with some critics and journos who did indeed feel that TRS is a sidestep on EON's part of doing something female driven in the world of Bond, that there is far more value coming from that connection both in terms of the franchise's reputation but actually getting the film seen. Far more people - and tastemakers - would be hyped for a Moneypenny field agent or Nomi spinoff at the cinemas than a new property like TRS.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    edited January 2020 Posts: 524
    antovolk wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Everybody already assumed she’s the new 007. I don’t see the point of saving this revelation for the film at this stage. Lots of people I talked even (wrongly) presume she will take the reign in the sequel. Perhaps they won’t do it because the don’t want to sell the film as the “black powerful woman 007 installment”, because that’s the real story for the media regarding NTTD.

    I'd say it's not really a bad thing though if that is the media's story...and the aim is to shake off the past chauvinistic reputation of the franchise.

    All eyes will be on Rhythm Section's box office next weekend - it may just end up proving to Barbara/EON that if you want to make a cinematic event out of this the IP connection is crucial. I've had conversations with some critics and journos who did indeed feel that TRS is a sidestep on EON's part of doing something female driven in the world of Bond, that there is far more value coming from that connection both in terms of the franchise's reputation but actually getting the film seen. Far more people - and tastemakers - would be hyped for a Moneypenny field agent or Nomi spinoff at the cinemas than a new property like TRS.

    I concur - the 'shared universe' factor might prove important. I think there's certainly a public for female-led action films, whether they are superhero films or spy thrillers. But to really make an impact on the general public, you need an IP to couple the film with. Marvel didn't make female-led movies from the start, they interwove the overarching story into films like Captain Marvel and Black Widow. Wonder Woman did well because of the IP: it's Wonder Woman/DC!

    So to translate that to Bond: I believe a Moneypenny or a Nomi spin off could work at the box office - if you tie it in with Bond. This means to get M and Q in as supportive characters, maybe feature Spectre and get a quick cameo near the end of Bond (the actor playing him at that time). It probably also means to use some iconography: the gun barrel, the Bond theme.

    The first reviews are promising for The Rhythm Section, but I fear it'll be the same as what happened to Atomic Blonde: every reviewer says it's very good, but no one will actually pay money to see it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,413
    antovolk wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Everybody already assumed she’s the new 007. I don’t see the point of saving this revelation for the film at this stage. Lots of people I talked even (wrongly) presume she will take the reign in the sequel. Perhaps they won’t do it because the don’t want to sell the film as the “black powerful woman 007 installment”, because that’s the real story for the media regarding NTTD.

    I'd say it's not really a bad thing though if that is the media's story...and the aim is to shake off the past chauvinistic reputation of the franchise.

    All eyes will be on Rhythm Section's box office next weekend - it may just end up proving to Barbara/EON that if you want to make a cinematic event out of this the IP connection is crucial. I've had conversations with some critics and journos who did indeed feel that TRS is a sidestep on EON's part of doing something female driven in the world of Bond, that there is far more value coming from that connection both in terms of the franchise's reputation but actually getting the film seen. Far more people - and tastemakers - would be hyped for a Moneypenny field agent or Nomi spinoff at the cinemas than a new property like TRS.

    I still think a Moneypenny film would work just because Harris is so good. I like how kind of sophisticated her 'penny is: she's intelligent and very attractive but not sexualised. I'd love a little thriller where someone tries to blackmail her or something- I wouldn't want her being some kind of high-kicking field agent.

    Kind of like how Rebecca Ferguson's Mission Impossible character could probably carry a movie on her own.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I don't know, but having a Bond film every 2-3yrs is part of the magic that makes him 'Bond'....long absence then 'He's back' tag, which makes the public cherish his return even more. I don't know if creating a Bond Cinematic Universe would suit the character's universally accepted immortality.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Fukunaga just posted a couple of IG stories from the ADR sessions
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited January 2020 Posts: 3,157
    matt_u wrote: »
    Everybody already assumed she’s the new 007. I don’t see the point of saving this revelation for the film at this stage. Lots of people I talked even (wrongly) presume she will take the reign in the sequel. Perhaps they won’t do it because the don’t want to sell the film as the “black powerful woman 007 installment”, because that’s the real story for the media regarding NTTD.

    Many even believed that she was the main character in this one and were shocked that Daniel Craig was in the trailer. Some still believe she's the main character even now. YouTubers made YouTube videos saying that "making James Bond a woman was a wrong move" and "ditching Daniel Craig was a huge mistake". I had many friends asking me how I felt about a man no longer being the main lead.
    Crazy how people seem to buy every single thing they see in the news and have no interest in doing some actual research. Is it so hard to actualy fact check stuff? I do all the time.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I don't know, but having a Bond film every 2-3yrs is part of the magic that makes him 'Bond'....long absence then 'He's back' tag, which makes the public cherish his return even more. I don't know if creating a Bond Cinematic Universe would suit the character's universally accepted immortality.

    I hope they don't create a Bond Cinematic Universe, but it's unlikely unless the franchise gets sold to Disney or some such place.
    Disney and Marvel are excellent at creating fatigue, they've done it with super hero films and Star Wars already.
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