Who Still Has a Difficult Time Getting Into Craig?

13

Comments

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,343
    Craig is my favorite Bond. First Bond movie I saw in the theaters was CR so he is "my" Bond. But honestly I have no problem enjoying ALL the other actors in the part. My least favorite is Lazenby but at least it works well in a movie like OHMSS. I find this notion of not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself quite absurd. This is what happens when someone sticks too rigidly to his "principles".
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited July 2019 Posts: 8,395
    For me the problem with Craig's Bond has always been that he lacks personality. Craig plays the majority of scenes with the same neutral expression on his face, and any emotional angst or pathos the audience experiences from a scene is as a result of the direction or scripting before it's anything Craig is doing in his performance. The other Bond actors all envigourate the character in their own unique and engaging ways, whether it be by adding a particular debonair coolness, a charm or sense of mystery that would draw in and endear me to them. Not to say that Bond should be a complete open book either, he should have depths which remain vague and distant. But, for me it seems that Craig plays reserved and emotionally distant far too much for me to keep on board with him. Often I'm more annoyed and irrated by his Bond than I am won over by him. His reckless arrogance in CR for instance doesn't come off as it should, and I'm just left cold. And before anyone says, I know that Bond IS quite unsavoury in the books and the other movies, but I suppose it is a matter of the balance being off. Bond can have flaws, but there needs to be enough to intrigue you along on the journey with him, and keep you in invested in his mission. I don't ever get a sense of WHY I should care for him, or really who he is. We spend too much time dealing with internal struggles, and Craig never really puts any style into it. Why should we care about this guys struggles if I have no sense of who he is outside of the mission he is on or the target he is pursuing. To me he's just another government agent with psychological issues, based on how Craig approaches it. What is there about his Bond which makes you want to see him triumph, really? I simply don't find any identity to his Bond. I can get on board with a portrayal which pitches Bond as more of an unsavoury anithero, but he at the very least still has to be interesting.
  • Posts: 3,333
    matt_u wrote: »
    I find this notion of not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself quite absurd. This is what happens when someone sticks too rigidly to his "principles".
    Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself"?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    bondsum wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I find this notion of not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself quite absurd. This is what happens when someone sticks too rigidly to his "principles".
    Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself"?

    Since every actor brought his own take to the character throughout the franchise I don't see how it is possible to don't get one particular performance. Obviously it's normal to have preferences... but not accepting an actor, or taking decades to "get into" his work it's something beyond me. This is just the result of closed-mindedness and a fairly amount of naivety. I'm not talking about someone in particular, just throwing around thoughts. One Bond fan should already know that Bond, in order to survive, must evolve every x years and as a consequence also the take in the character should be affected by different takes. There is a difference between not liking and not accepting.

    I'm happy for being able to enjoy both Skyfall and A View to a Kill. You just require an open mind. Saying that Craig doesn't look like Bond because he doesn't do things this way, he doesn't treat women that way, he doesn't say the lines that way is just ridicolous. Bond is not 100% set in stone. There are some principles but different takes on the character had always co-existed and Craig's Bond is as just rightful as Moore's Bond, for example. The only difference is that Craig's is more successful.
  • Posts: 12,526
    My Bond is Roger Moore and always will be as much as I love and enjoy all the other actors. However? Who ever picks up the 007 baton next has got a huge challenge ahead of them in following DC's Bond.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    bondsum wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I’ve accepted Craig as Bond but he’s still my least favourite.

    I find that he’s missing that refined, gentlemanly, slightly snobbish quality that should set Bond apart from other more generic (action) heroes.
    To a certain degree, I can understand this gripe about Craig lacking the refined, gentlemanly, slightly snobbish quality associated with Bond. It's probably my own personal dissatisfaction with how he's been written as well. There's even a number of scenes in CR that I felt Craig was lacking; the poker scene in the Bahamas felt off to me when I first saw it. Craig strides into the club looking confident which is fine, but it's when he slouches in his chair, open-shirted and handles the chips that he appears rather boorish and uncultivated. Compare this to how greenhorn Lazenby handles himself playing a tense game of baccarat in the luxury Hotel Palacio Estoril with more agility and class. Of course, Craig makes up for this slight bump in his performance later in the movie, but it's still noticeable to me in CR.

    Both Moore and Brosnan's sophistication felt perhaps a tad self-mocking, lacking the assured delivery of both Connery, Dalton, and dare I say Lazenby, but it was still there front and centre. Craig's Bond appears to want to mask a lot of that. Sure, Craig carries himself very well and has a very assured vocal delivery, which is something very reminiscent of Connery, but there's very little in the way of landed gentry about Craig when he interacts with other characters in his movies. "Mouton Rothschild IS a claret. And, I've smelled that aftershave before, and both times - I've smelled a rat." - "Red wine with fish. Well, that should have told me something." - "I'm not mad about his tailor, are you?" - "Breakfast for one at nine, please. Green figs. Yogurt. Coffee - very black. Thank you." - "Coffee? - Medium sweet." - "My dear girl, there are some things that just aren't done, such as drinking Dom Perignon '53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That's just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs!" - "Oh, no. I like sake. Especially when it's served at the correct temperature: 98.4 degrees fahrenheit like this is." - the samples are endless so I won't go on and list them all. With Craig's Bond, I don't get that he's much of a man of the world, nor do I get that he's particularly from the upper classes. He comes across more nouveau riche, if anything.

    So, yeah. I can relate to that argument @GoldenGun.

    Exactly, @bondsum, nouveau riche is what I also feel Craig’s Bond can act like. Less of a man of the world and not quite knowing what savoir vivre is all about. The more robust way that he moves around doesn’t help much either. The other actors look as if they were born to wear a suit, Craig looks uncomfortable wearing one. The others appreciate luxury because they can differ the subtle differences between a quality product and a lesser product, Craig looks like he just wants luxury because it’s expensive and not because he knows what is best. Like that guy who orders an inferior but more expensive wine in a restaurant because he isn’t aware the second wine on the list is actually better.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Connery from the get go just effortlessly delivered, oozed charisma and looked the part until YOLT.

    Lazenby wasn't even an actor so what he delivered was a minor miracle, the film wouldn't be significantly revised and now reverred it he'd really been as bad as some had said he was. There are moments when he nails it and there are times when he not convincing as some but considering his non acting background and the film he got to play Bond for one and only time. The most emotional and real Bond film until CR.

    Roger took till SWLM to cement his performance and then effortlessly played his Bond.
    Roger like Sean had his take to a tee. No denying is comfortable confident air, totally believing he is who he says he is, comic timing spot on, selling the cheesiest of lines.

    Dalton imbued the Fleming Bond like no other actor to that point but I felt like he never properly felt confident playing Bond despite nailing some of those characteristics and looking the most dangerous Bond since Sean.

    Brosnan had a good stab at the role in GE, possibly if they'd had faith in him to continue down this brave new take on Bond instead of reset to making Roger Moore films, TND is like a SWLM remake at times. TWINE is a desperate attempt to give Brosnan his own OHMSS and DAD, well it's a nightmare.

    Brosnan by his own words never nailed the character and just played an aproximation of Bond, a bit of Roger, an attempt to be Sean but failing and trying the Fleming danger of Dalton, a real mish mash and never suceeding in either particularly successful.

    Playing Bond with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

    Craig in contrast is a subtle actor instead of spelling in out in capitals. To think he gives a performance with no personality when you see the work he does in CR, no personality my foot.

    Craig's acting is done a lot with his eyes and expression, he's got the best voice alongside Roger, clear authorative and confident.

    You can tell he came from a character acting background, he approaches the role as a real person not some fantasy figure that isn't particularly believable.

    Craig's interpretation might not be the kind that makes you want to be him but you live it you feel it, its real. Dalton has moments, although due to his films not willing to let go of the tropes that worked in the Moore films that don't work with him, you never really see what he could have been truly like.

    I feel for Dalton because if he'd been Bond when the audience was ready for that kind of performance it might have been different. Although his stagey presence and awkwardness in moments, he might well of got their first but Craig nailed it with much more confidence and delivers the full article.

    QOS for me is LTK done properly, no Moore hang up's that really do Tim's second film no favours, definitely some proper Fleming moments but undermimed by the likes of Q in the field turning up with the absurdest of gadgets to assist.

    Craig only fell down when he's given the material he had in SPECTRE, trying to get him to be Roger was a big mistake, it's not where he thrives. I would say Bond 25 will pay to his strengths, Waller Bridge's humour is perfectly suited to Craig and he should do fine with what element she has bought to his character.

    I look at Bond first the character his actions, his personality, the man, how he holds himself around others, the rest is window dressing, if the actor needs all that to convince you he's Bond then he wasn't Bond in the first place.

    I would have loved to see Brosnan do CR as his first and done just like DC did, no Bond theme, no Q, MP, next to no gadgets and still convince us he was James Bond.

    Craig did this and some, CR might have had it's critics, it's not perfect but almost the unanimous word was that Daniel nailed it. The press had to eat their words and critics in their droves called him the best since Connery.

    Brosnan did receive great notices when he began but he had all the ingredients turned up to 11 by the time of his 2nd film, there was no mistake as to who he was playing, because every element screamed Bond at you on the screen.

    Craig by contrast had to rely on his performance alone, you could argue that Pierce might have pulled it off but evidence points to the opposite.

  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    I love him as Bond. He'll be so difficult to replace. However, I'm actually ready for a new actor to step into the role. Bond can't become stale. He needs to regenerate to survive. EoN have an unenviable task ahead of them. They have to find Bond's place in the world with a new actor in place. I literally can't think of a single living actor capable of successfully replacing Craig. Maybe Dan Stevens with a script written solely by PW-B?
  • Posts: 1,917
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Connery from the get go just effortlessly delivered, oozed charisma and looked the part until YOLT.

    Lazenby wasn't even an actor so what he delivered was a minor miracle, the film wouldn't be significantly revised and now reverred it he'd really been as bad as some had said he was. There are moments when he nails it and there are times when he not convincing as some but considering his non acting background and the film he got to play Bond for one and only time. The most emotional and real Bond film until CR.

    Roger took till SWLM to cement his performance and then effortlessly played his Bond.
    Roger like Sean had his take to a tee. No denying is comfortable confident air, totally believing he is who he says he is, comic timing spot on, selling the cheesiest of lines.

    Dalton imbued the Fleming Bond like no other actor to that point but I felt like he never properly felt confident playing Bond despite nailing some of those characteristics and looking the most dangerous Bond since Sean.

    Brosnan had a good stab at the role in GE, possibly if they'd had faith in him to continue down this brave new take on Bond instead of reset to making Roger Moore films, TND is like a SWLM remake at times. TWINE is a desperate attempt to give Brosnan his own OHMSS and DAD, well it's a nightmare.

    Brosnan by his own words never nailed the character and just played an aproximation of Bond, a bit of Roger, an attempt to be Sean but failing and trying the Fleming danger of Dalton, a real mish mash and never suceeding in either particularly successful.

    Playing Bond with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

    Craig in contrast is a subtle actor instead of spelling in out in capitals. To think he gives a performance with no personality when you see the work he does in CR, no personality my foot.

    Craig's acting is done a lot with his eyes and expression, he's got the best voice alongside Roger, clear authorative and confident.

    You can tell he came from a character acting background, he approaches the role as a real person not some fantasy figure that isn't particularly believable.

    Craig's interpretation might not be the kind that makes you want to be him but you live it you feel it, its real. Dalton has moments, although due to his films not willing to let go of the tropes that worked in the Moore films that don't work with him, you never really see what he could have been truly like.

    I feel for Dalton because if he'd been Bond when the audience was ready for that kind of performance it might have been different. Although his stagey presence and awkwardness in moments, he might well of got their first but Craig nailed it with much more confidence and delivers the full article.

    QOS for me is LTK done properly, no Moore hang up's that really do Tim's second film no favours, definitely some proper Fleming moments but undermimed by the likes of Q in the field turning up with the absurdest of gadgets to assist.

    Craig only fell down when he's given the material he had in SPECTRE, trying to get him to be Roger was a big mistake, it's not where he thrives. I would say Bond 25 will pay to his strengths, Waller Bridge's humour is perfectly suited to Craig and he should do fine with what element she has bought to his character.

    I look at Bond first the character his actions, his personality, the man, how he holds himself around others, the rest is window dressing, if the actor needs all that to convince you he's Bond then he wasn't Bond in the first place.

    I would have loved to see Brosnan do CR as his first and done just like DC did, no Bond theme, no Q, MP, next to no gadgets and still convince us he was James Bond.

    Craig did this and some, CR might have had it's critics, it's not perfect but almost the unanimous word was that Daniel nailed it. The press had to eat their words and critics in their droves called him the best since Connery.

    Brosnan did receive great notices when he began but he had all the ingredients turned up to 11 by the time of his 2nd film, there was no mistake as to who he was playing, because every element screamed Bond at you on the screen.

    Craig by contrast had to rely on his performance alone, you could argue that Pierce might have pulled it off but evidence points to the opposite.
    Great take, reflecting a lot of my own feelings.

    It's interesting so many cling to the thought of the film Bond as the snobbish man of the world type of figure, which he was in decades past. The world is changing and that image isn't what it was and that's where Craig is making it his own. Even when Brosnan did the casino scene in GE it seemed almost antiquated and forced. Just in the way the locations aren't as exotic as they once were because we have more access to them, the previous image with Bond in terms of style isn't necessarily the same.

    We often talk about how the cinematic and literary Bond differ. Take into account how Fleming portrayed Bond often feeling like an outsider in that world, with the character calling himself a Scottish peasant.

    I recall in SF's pretitles when Craig Bond comes through the train and straightens his cuffs with the audience cheering and laughing and personally cringing. This isn't his Bond and didn't feel right. It's the way he carries himself like in the boat coming into the casino in or on the moors in the suit outside the Aston Martin in SF that nail his Bond. The image of suave, well-dressed Bond is still there even if it's in a different way from his predecessors and just feels right in this era.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 17,756
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I recall in SF's pretitles when Craig Bond comes through the train and straightens his cuffs with the audience cheering and laughing and personally cringing.

    One of my favourite moments of the Craig era right there (even if I dislike the film). That's the Bond I like to see, taking the time to straighten his tie or cuffs.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    matt_u wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I find this notion of not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself quite absurd. This is what happens when someone sticks too rigidly to his "principles".
    Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "not getting a particular actor in a movie franchise that consistently tries to smoothly reinvent itself"?

    Since every actor brought his own take to the character throughout the franchise I don't see how it is possible to don't get one particular performance. Obviously it's normal to have preferences... but not accepting an actor, or taking decades to "get into" his work it's something beyond me. This is just the result of closed-mindedness and a fairly amount of naivety. I'm not talking about someone in particular, just throwing around thoughts. One Bond fan should already know that Bond, in order to survive, must evolve every x years and as a consequence also the take in the character should be affected by different takes. There is a difference between not liking and not accepting.

    I'm happy for being able to enjoy both Skyfall and A View to a Kill. You just require an open mind. Saying that Craig doesn't look like Bond because he doesn't do things this way, he doesn't treat women that way, he doesn't say the lines that way is just ridicolous. Bond is not 100% set in stone. There are some principles but different takes on the character had always co-existed and Craig's Bond is as just rightful as Moore's Bond, for example. The only difference is that Craig's is more successful.
    Thanks for explaining that @matt_u. And yet the performances are not consistent throughout I would argue. Moore plays Bond quite different to the one seen in both MR and OP to the one he plays in LALD and TMWTGG. Then we have the oddity that's FYEO, which was clearly written to introduce a new 007 but still retains a lot of the material written for a tougher Bond than Moore's. You won't remember this but the press were all over Roger Moore's comment back '81 about not liking the scene where he had to kick Locque off the cliff to his death. He said he didn't want to do it and that it wasn't like his Bond. He demanded a rewrite, but didn't get one. He's right, of course, as it wasn't like his Bond as it was written for another actor instead. So when it came to that scene in the cinema, I couldn't help thinking Moore didn't want to do this, even though it's one of the best scenes in the movie. Totally ruined it for me, it did.

    Having been a Bond fan since '69 and seen the various interpretations fresh on release, I think it's fair and normal to have grievances. I also don't understand what's so closed-minded about not liking a particular rendition or portrayal when the performances and stories have been so varied over the course of its 56-year history. We're not all sheep that kowtow to whatever's put in front of us. Besides, there have been plenty of substandard entries that have been served up in that time. Bond evolving hasn't always been good for the series, either. TMWTGG, FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK all saw a significant drop in cinema receipts on their initial releases. Also, I wouldn't say each actor brought their own take. Clearly, they're all different actors so cannot totally be the same, but the one thing they all drew upon was Fleming's character, that's what they had in common with each other. It was only really Dalton that was vocal about getting back to his literary roots due to Moore having pulled away so much from how he first set out. Not so much Moore's take, but an inability to be as convincing as his two predecessors had been. The audience reaction to TMWTGG confirmed this when he was described more as a school-bully than 007. What would've been Moore's last contracted Bond had to make significant changes in order to be a success at the box office again, hence the midcourse correction of TSWLM.

    I happen to understand @GoldenGun's own keen observations and pet grievances about Craig not showing any "savoir faire" the same way Connery, Moore, Lazenby and Dalton did in their respective movies. However, that doesn't mean I dislike Craig, I just don't think the writers or producers have been pushing this side of Bond's character under his tenure, and because of this Craig has fallen short of my own expectations. He hasn't really evolved that much since CR, and that's another problem I had with his character arc in CR. Bond was already a sophisticated man of the world before he got his OO status. He might have been a little too trusting and perhaps green, but he was already highly cultivated long before he stepped into that tuxedo. Craig's writers have concentrated mostly on Bond's emotional and psychological side at the expense of delivering a fully-schooled James Bond. For me, Craig's Bond is damaged goods. The only bit of Fleming they seem continually drawn to is "the blunt instrument" side and not the savoir vivre part that distinguishes him from all the other generic action heroes out there. When I say Craig comes over as more nouveau riche, it's because he doesn't demonstrate the savoir vivre of past Bonds.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    There's also the strong emphasis on Bond's role as an assassin that may put off fans of previous interpretations. When Swann asks what he does for a living he says, very frankly, "I kill people". Gone are the days when Bond's assignments were something along the lines of obtaining microfilm, documents, etc. The shift towards his role as a killer can be traced to DAD in instances where he's referred to as a "British assassin", but given how bonkers that movie is it's not a detail that really stands out. Cut to CR, where Bond is explicitly referred to by M as a "blunt instrument", Bond's kills feel dirtier, the idea that his occupation is practically soul corrosion. It's less glamorous. In the past, the films made you want to be James Bond, but now like the Fleming novels it portrays Bond in a way that makes you NOT want to be Bond.

    I like this aspect about the Craig films, but I can fully understand those who aren't taken by it, especially those who really view Bond the same way Guy Hamilton viewed these films: as a good lark.
  • Posts: 6,709
    To be fair, about Craig's Bond not being a "savour faire" kind of guy, he did know what a 1948 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith was. In what probably is my favourite part in SP (just them waiting and then the rolls coming in from the desert and taking them into the massive crater). He also knew that the DB5 was from 1964, in CR. So he knows his classic cars. He also has good taste in fashion and knows his drinks.

    Not the same as going to a concert in Vienna, or knowing his beluga. Still...
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 628
    The characterization of Bond in CR combined with Craig's unusual portrayal impressed me so much that I went back to see that film three more times in the cinema. (Same with QOS, although I found that to be a lesser effort.) Craig's arrogant, shockingly violent yet vulnerable Bond seemed like a breath of fresh air, especially after Brosnan's increasingly stale presence in his tired, assembly line films of the '90s.

    Then, unfortunately, there was SKYFALL. Somehow during that too-long hiatus, Craig had forgotten how to be Bond and fell back on a series of poses and canned expressions, as if he had been directed to lean into the iconic nature of his character and supply little of substance. It doesn't help that the script makes him look stupid and weak. (So Bond decides to fake his death and go off to a beach to sulk for months without completing the mission and leaving other agents to die? Because his boss think he's expendable? What a spineless, self-pitying a**hole.) If you're not familiar with Anthony Horowitz's comments on this film, do a Google search for them. Horowitz was absolutely right.

    I'm more forgiving of SPECTRE because there are a couple of truly amazing scenes (the boardroom meeting and train fight), and Craig seems more relaxed and tries to generate chemistry with his co-star. But the film is still poorly written -- the dialogue is embarrassing at times -- and takes off only sporadically.

    I like Craig as a person (he's great fun in interviews, especially when he loses his patience), but looking at him on the set of BOND 25, it seems like he's of an era that has passed. To me he resembles Moore in AVTAK, obviously not as old (although he looks ancient next to Ana de Armas) but long past his sell-by date. I'll see the film, of course, but I'm not expecting much from Craig, and pointless shots of him walking around Jamaican nightclubs doesn't get me excited.
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 140
    It just bothers me to see Craig in scenes where he's lurking through the shadows, spying and being presented as Bond, yet has absolutely 0 resemblance to the preceding 5 actors. In my opinion, Sean through Pierce shared something similar in feel that made the viewer believe that it was the same character. Also, all 5 of them shared certain physical qualities that Craig does not possess. So, it's the full embodiment of Craig's Bond that just doesn't work for me. He's such a departure from what we had seen before that I truly think it would have been better had he played a different agent.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    CR and QOS are Bond films.

    Skyfall- Playing home alone on an abandoned lot? Lame. Honestly the film had a lot of potential and they screwed it up. Great for a standalone action film but not a great Bond movie.


    Spectre- Horribly edited. Craig looks bored. The script/lines were really bad. Waltz was just thrown in there. Color grade was also bad in most of the film. Car chase sucked.

    I do really like the Blofeld lair torture + escape. The opening was fantastic.


    I just think after Quantum of solace they screwed up badly. SF and SP still made a combined $2B I believe but either way for the Bond franchise they are turning more into Jason Bourne type films.

    Bond 25 looks like it might bring us back to the OG Bond feel.



  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    CR and QOS are Bond films.

    Skyfall- Playing home alone on an abandoned lot? Lame. Honestly the film had a lot of potential and they screwed it up. Great for a standalone action film but not a great Bond movie.


    Spectre- Horribly edited. Craig looks bored. The script/lines were really bad. Waltz was just thrown in there. Color grade was also bad in most of the film. Car chase sucked.

    I do really like the Blofeld lair torture + escape. The opening was fantastic.


    I just think after Quantum of solace they screwed up badly. SF and SP still made a combined $2B I believe but either way for the Bond franchise they are turning more into Jason Bourne type films.

    Bond 25 looks like it might bring us back to the OG Bond feel.



    It's QoS that looks and feel more like a Bourne type of film. That's exactly why Mendes decided to go back to basics in SF. Because Bond started to look too much like his imitations...
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Connery from the get go just effortlessly delivered, oozed charisma and looked the part until YOLT.

    Lazenby wasn't even an actor so what he delivered was a minor miracle, the film wouldn't be significantly revised and now reverred it he'd really been as bad as some had said he was. There are moments when he nails it and there are times when he not convincing as some but considering his non acting background and the film he got to play Bond for one and only time. The most emotional and real Bond film until CR.

    Roger took till SWLM to cement his performance and then effortlessly played his Bond.
    Roger like Sean had his take to a tee. No denying is comfortable confident air, totally believing he is who he says he is, comic timing spot on, selling the cheesiest of lines.

    Dalton imbued the Fleming Bond like no other actor to that point but I felt like he never properly felt confident playing Bond despite nailing some of those characteristics and looking the most dangerous Bond since Sean.

    Brosnan had a good stab at the role in GE, possibly if they'd had faith in him to continue down this brave new take on Bond instead of reset to making Roger Moore films, TND is like a SWLM remake at times. TWINE is a desperate attempt to give Brosnan his own OHMSS and DAD, well it's a nightmare.

    Brosnan by his own words never nailed the character and just played an aproximation of Bond, a bit of Roger, an attempt to be Sean but failing and trying the Fleming danger of Dalton, a real mish mash and never suceeding in either particularly successful.

    Playing Bond with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

    Craig in contrast is a subtle actor instead of spelling in out in capitals. To think he gives a performance with no personality when you see the work he does in CR, no personality my foot.

    Craig's acting is done a lot with his eyes and expression, he's got the best voice alongside Roger, clear authorative and confident.

    You can tell he came from a character acting background, he approaches the role as a real person not some fantasy figure that isn't particularly believable.

    Craig's interpretation might not be the kind that makes you want to be him but you live it you feel it, its real. Dalton has moments, although due to his films not willing to let go of the tropes that worked in the Moore films that don't work with him, you never really see what he could have been truly like.

    I feel for Dalton because if he'd been Bond when the audience was ready for that kind of performance it might have been different. Although his stagey presence and awkwardness in moments, he might well of got their first but Craig nailed it with much more confidence and delivers the full article.

    QOS for me is LTK done properly, no Moore hang up's that really do Tim's second film no favours, definitely some proper Fleming moments but undermimed by the likes of Q in the field turning up with the absurdest of gadgets to assist.

    Craig only fell down when he's given the material he had in SPECTRE, trying to get him to be Roger was a big mistake, it's not where he thrives. I would say Bond 25 will pay to his strengths, Waller Bridge's humour is perfectly suited to Craig and he should do fine with what element she has bought to his character.

    I look at Bond first the character his actions, his personality, the man, how he holds himself around others, the rest is window dressing, if the actor needs all that to convince you he's Bond then he wasn't Bond in the first place.

    I would have loved to see Brosnan do CR as his first and done just like DC did, no Bond theme, no Q, MP, next to no gadgets and still convince us he was James Bond.

    Craig did this and some, CR might have had it's critics, it's not perfect but almost the unanimous word was that Daniel nailed it. The press had to eat their words and critics in their droves called him the best since Connery.

    Brosnan did receive great notices when he began but he had all the ingredients turned up to 11 by the time of his 2nd film, there was no mistake as to who he was playing, because every element screamed Bond at you on the screen.

    Craig by contrast had to rely on his performance alone, you could argue that Pierce might have pulled it off but evidence points to the opposite.

    Completely agree, @Shardlake

    Watching SF last night, Craig's acting is wonderfully subtle. He makes Bond a flesh and blood human being. Great acting in all his Bond films although he was badly let down by the material in SP.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I don't see any problem in Craig portrayal of Bond in SP.

    He was no rookie anymore. He wasn't driven by anger. He wasn't suffering both physical and emotional breakdowns. He was just, for the first time, at the top of his game (except for the SF PTS). Yes, Craig had less "dramatic" material to work with but he portrayed a confident Bond with a slightly lighter tone that after the previous three movies felt right to me.
  • Posts: 19,339
    He was bang out of order with the way he spoke to M though,that wasn't necessary.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He was bang out of order with the way he spoke to M though,that wasn't necessary.

    This is true, but I like to think that even if he clearly respect Mallory since the SF events he was still working for the late M, which for him is still an higher authority than Mallory.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 1,661
    To put it bluntly, I don't want to be Craig's Bond. I would prefer to be the five other Bonds. To be effortlessly handsome and charming is the romantic appeal of James Bond. Any action hero can throw a punch or shoot a gun, but not every action hero can try to outwit or outsmart the villain without swearing or vulgarity. I don't want to be Jack Bauer, Jason Bourne, Ethan Hunt, John McClane, John Rambo, John Wick, Harry Callahan, Indiana Jones. There is only one true, romantic 'kiss the girl, save the world' action hero.

    Bond. James Bond.

    And Craig doesn't truly embody that, but I accept many people don't agree or don't care. The world has moved on from Cubby/Harry/Terence Young's original conception of the cinematic James Bond. Barbara Broccoli knew that back in 2005. I guess what I'm saying is if you moan about Craig not being like the previous Bonds (even Dalton's less flamboyant interpretation) that's the whole point - he's not meant to be the same, but some fans have never accepted that or fully come to terms with it. They're stuck in the past. I was stuck in the past until QOS came out and I accepted the new Craig era. Anyone still moaning about Craig, well, it's almost 15 years on, time to accept it!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Really wise words.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    He's my favourite Bond. I understand where you're coming from though, if he wasn't your choice initially then this must have been a long 14 years. Who knows if this is Daniel's last movie, the next actor might be more to your taste.
    It's all a matter of perspective

    I must admit after watching Spectre, that film felt like a step backwards for Daniel's Bond, which is how I felt about Die Another Day with Pierce. They both broke so much new ground up until that point, then relied to heavily on the "Bond formula" and it just felt run of the mill. I don't believe Daniel does classic Bond as well as he does say Casino or Skyfall, where he is the only Bond I could see capable of doing those movies out of the 6 actors.

    Regardless of anything else, I'm really happy he became Bond when he did, because to my mind, he has been the best Bond (at least since Connery) and more importantly he made Bond relevant again when it was needed most
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He was bang out of order with the way he spoke to M though,that wasn't necessary.

    To be fair the dialogue in that scene was woeful. Especially when Bond first meets 'C' and we get that cringeworthy back and forth.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He was bang out of order with the way he spoke to M though,that wasn't necessary.

    To be fair the dialogue in that scene was woeful. Especially when Bond first meets 'C' and we get that cringeworthy back and forth.

    Nothing makes sense in that scene. The immediate belligerence seems based on nothing unless Bond knows something we don't. (Was C wearing a spectre ring or something like that?) And "No, I think I'll just call you C," is not a particularly strong or impressive line.

    Andrew Scott got Falco'd in SP. I thought it fascinating that this man got cast and I had some hopes for something memorable, but like Madsen, Scott never received a good story arc, even as a B-character.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Univex wrote: »
    To be fair, about Craig's Bond not being a "savour faire" kind of guy, he did know what a 1948 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith was.
    As would most mechanics or car enthusiasts. I'm willing to concede that there might be the occasional sporadic hint peppered here and there, but nothing that truly stands out.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m in the middle, but why should someone simply have to “accept it” if they don’t care for the actor? Some people would prefer a different Bond (at this point I’m a film or two past ready), as simple as that. No arguments or battles necessary; he just didn’t, or currently doesn’t, tickle some people’s fancy. They should pretend that he does? Buy their tickets and shut up? I saw my first Bond film before Craig was even born. It’s all transitory.
    Agreed @Birdleson. I always thought the term "narrow-minded" was mostly applied to those not willing to listen or tolerate other people's views. I like Craig as Bond, but at the same time, I would say I'm not entirely satisfied with everything that he's done as Bond, either. I thought the purpose of these forums was to offer a critique, not unwavering loyalty and fawning over someone just because they were lucky enough to play Bond. It seems a bizarre concept to me that we must like everything just because it's a Bond movie.
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 140
    I have a big problem with this need to slowly build up to the classic elements. Craig's Bond is supposed to get to the point where we recognize the good ole' James Bond, yet he's clearly a different version of the character -completely different than the previous 5 actors, both in looks and delivery.

    His run as Bond was supposed to be about a more grounded character, yet his films are full of plot holes and fantastical elements. 'Skyfall' is peppered with "poetic" touches, yet logic takes a back seat. So, aside from my gripe with Craig as Bond, his run has felt directionless and uninspired. During the Cubby era, you knew what product you were getting, whereas now, you literally don't know what you're getting/watching.

  • edited July 2019 Posts: 654
    bondsum wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    To be fair, about Craig's Bond not being a "savour faire" kind of guy, he did know what a 1948 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith was.
    As would most mechanics or car enthusiasts. I'm willing to concede that there might be the occasional sporadic hint peppered here and there, but nothing that truly stands out.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m in the middle, but why should someone simply have to “accept it” if they don’t care for the actor? Some people would prefer a different Bond (at this point I’m a film or two past ready), as simple as that. No arguments or battles necessary; he just didn’t, or currently doesn’t, tickle some people’s fancy. They should pretend that he does? Buy their tickets and shut up? I saw my first Bond film before Craig was even born. It’s all transitory.
    Agreed @Birdleson. I always thought the term "narrow-minded" was mostly applied to those not willing to listen or tolerate other people's views. I like Craig as Bond, but at the same time, I would say I'm not entirely satisfied with everything that he's done as Bond, either. I thought the purpose of these forums was to offer a critique, not unwavering loyalty and fawning over someone just because they were lucky enough to play Bond. It seems a bizarre concept to me that we must like everything just because it's a Bond movie.
    That’s because after Craig’s breakthrough in CR he was immediately lauded as the “best since Connery” (though to be fair Brosnan go the same treatment after GE came out) and everyone fawned over him as something of a “second coming”. Craig-fawning went through the roof, Brosnan-bashing became the norm and quite fashionable, and any criticism of Craig or CR was immediately ridiculed or mocked. If you didn’t absolutely love Craig you must have been a Brosnan lover or were told to “go back to watching DAD”. Well, fast-forward a decade later and we see that Craig indeed was not the second coming and even has 2 major turkeys under his belt. Not exactly the sterling run that was expected a la DN-FRWL-GF-TB.

    Bottom line is that everyone has their preferences and should be entitled to them. Not caring for Craig’s performance doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you or that you are “wrong”. I still maintain that Connery at his worst and most bloated is still better than Craig at his best. Just personal preference. And it’s a perfectly legitimate opinion. Craig just can never hope to possess that special something that Connery possessed. Or Moore for that matter. Or even Brosnan.

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Well, seems we now have a thread for the fringe element to hang out.
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