NTTD Main Titles & Gunbarrel - Designed by Daniel Kleinman (SPOILERS)

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2019 Posts: 16,378
    The From Russia With Love one might be a spook but it's hard to tell. Could be either! It's a bit of a weird way to draw a ghost, but then equally octopuses don't have noses...
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 572
    I don't see an octopus in any of its renditions. The part I hate about it is that by plastering an Octopus all over the credits, they are essentially dictating that it is supposed to be one. Spectre by definition is a ghost.

    Skull with uropygium? A bit weird, but fits definition.

    Replace the skull with just eyes and add a bunch of "legs" (of course, totaling at 8, creating this controversy)? Still a ghost.

    But in SP, we get the least octopus-like logo and yet tons of octopus visuals in the credits. Makes. No. Sense.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2019 Posts: 16,378
    JamesStock wrote: »
    I don't see an octopus in any of its renditions.

    Fiona Volpe's one (left) even has suckers! :)
    latest?cb=20150328123203
  • That's a fair point and I get the tentacle thing.

    But the name of the organization is Spectre - which is a pre-existing word in the dictionary - not 'The Octopuss Organization.'

    There's just no logic with having an octopuss as a logo and a ghost for a name. That'd be like the company Apple having a hamburger for a logo.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,216
    JamesStock wrote: »
    That's a fair point and I get the tentacle thing.

    But the name of the organization is Spectre - which is a pre-existing word in the dictionary - not 'The Octopuss Organization.'

    There's just no logic with having an octopuss as a logo and a ghost for a name. That'd be like the company Apple having a hamburger for a logo.

    Split the difference.

    It is the ghost of an octopus.

    Sorted.
  • Split the difference.

    It is the ghost of an octopus.

    Sorted.
    I seriously just LOL'd. I could buy into that. ;)

  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    If I’m not mistaken, when they did the FRWL video game a decade ago, I believe the name SPECTRE was changed to OCTOPUS since the McClory legal battle hadn’t yet resolved itself.
  • Posts: 16,162
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I wasn't a fan of the last two title sequences in the slightest (SF did have a couple of nice moments to it but SP's was beyond awful), so hopefully he can redeem himself, in my opinion, with something a bit more laid back and adventurously simplistic rather than trying to be so heavily symbolic.

    The SP titles don't do anything for me at all. The octopus motif is alright, but overdone, IMO. I'll take Binder's latter era titles over SP any day.

    Seriously? Have you seen LTK’s titles where he runs out of ideas completely and has to go with putting some chips on a casino table so they look like ‘007’? :D

    Funny because Kleinman directed the music video for Licence To Kill and managed to make it look Bondier and better than the actual title sequence! :)

    The ideas were thin on Binder's last few films no doubt. He also stressed the producers by turning in his titles at the very last minute, I believe, so one could tamper with them. That said, I most certainly prefer the lovely blond rising from the martini glass over slimy CGI octopus tentacles at any given moment.

    The 007 forming casino chips, however I leave to others.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,216
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Split the difference.

    It is the ghost of an octopus.

    Sorted.
    I seriously just LOL'd. I could buy into that. ;)

    But, to offer another point here; Spectre might refer to a ghost or a ghoul, but it's not its only definition.

    A dark, looming threat or warning from the future. Hence Bond to Largo, in Thunderball:

    "I thought I saw the spectre of defeat over your shoulder..."
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I wasn't a fan of the last two title sequences in the slightest (SF did have a couple of nice moments to it but SP's was beyond awful), so hopefully he can redeem himself, in my opinion, with something a bit more laid back and adventurously simplistic rather than trying to be so heavily symbolic.

    The SP titles don't do anything for me at all. The octopus motif is alright, but overdone, IMO. I'll take Binder's latter era titles over SP any day.

    Seriously? Have you seen LTK’s titles where he runs out of ideas completely and has to go with putting some chips on a casino table so they look like ‘007’? :D

    Funny because Kleinman directed the music video for Licence To Kill and managed to make it look Bondier and better than the actual title sequence! :)

    The ideas were thin on Binder's last few films no doubt. He also stressed the producers by turning in his titles at the very last minute, I believe, so one could tamper with them. That said, I most certainly prefer the lovely blond rising from the martini glass over slimy CGI octopus tentacles at any given moment.

    Oh I think the tentacles are a much more striking image than a bored lady in a glass (she's so bored she has to put her head down). And hang on, isn't the martini bubbling? Martini doesn't bubble; what's she doing in there... ? :)

    (Only kidding: it's presumably supposed to be champagne :) )
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,183
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.


  • Posts: 16,162
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I wasn't a fan of the last two title sequences in the slightest (SF did have a couple of nice moments to it but SP's was beyond awful), so hopefully he can redeem himself, in my opinion, with something a bit more laid back and adventurously simplistic rather than trying to be so heavily symbolic.

    The SP titles don't do anything for me at all. The octopus motif is alright, but overdone, IMO. I'll take Binder's latter era titles over SP any day.

    Seriously? Have you seen LTK’s titles where he runs out of ideas completely and has to go with putting some chips on a casino table so they look like ‘007’? :D

    Funny because Kleinman directed the music video for Licence To Kill and managed to make it look Bondier and better than the actual title sequence! :)

    The ideas were thin on Binder's last few films no doubt. He also stressed the producers by turning in his titles at the very last minute, I believe, so one could tamper with them. That said, I most certainly prefer the lovely blond rising from the martini glass over slimy CGI octopus tentacles at any given moment.

    Oh I think the tentacles are a much more striking image than a bored lady in a glass (she's so bored she has to put her head down). And hang on, isn't the martini bubbling? Martini doesn't bubble; what's she doing in there... ? :)

    (Only kidding: it's presumably supposed to be champagne :) )

    Maybe I should have another look at the SP titles? I might be missing something.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I dug SP titles, but wouldn’t rank them with his best (GE, CR, and SF).
  • Posts: 16,162
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    I really loved Binder's work on PHILIP MARLOWE. Fun show as well. Some Bond alumni present: Michael Billington, John Terry, Cec Linder among others.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    And with Michael Reed and Peter Hunt! Shame they only did one Bond.
  • Posts: 12,466
    I thought the title sequence was one of the best parts of SP. I have always liked it a lot. Definitely Top 10.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 16,162
    I certainly would have loved more Hunt directed Bonds photographed by Reed.

    I just realized as I'm browsing through this thread, that in 3 years time, Kleinman will have been title designer for the Bonds the same number of years as Binder.

    How times flies.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    Goodness, he really did, didn't he? Even the type of gun is the same! :) Every time you see one familiar LTD image another one pops up right after! :D
    Great find!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    I dug SP titles, but wouldn’t rank them with his best (GE, CR, and SF).

    Yeah, I think they're decent but I wouldn't say they're the best either.
    One thing that does rub me up the wrong way is that guy playing Bond who clearly isn't Craig! :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    mtm wrote: »
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    Goodness, he really did, didn't he? Even the type of gun is the same! :) Every time you see one familiar LTD image another one pops up right after! :D
    Great find!

    I almost can’t blame him for recycling, it’s that great of a title sequence!
  • Posts: 16,162
    mtm wrote: »
    I dug SP titles, but wouldn’t rank them with his best (GE, CR, and SF).

    Yeah, I think they're decent but I wouldn't say they're the best either.
    One thing that does rub me up the wrong way is that guy playing Bond who clearly isn't Craig! :)

    Never noticed that. I am intrigued. As obvious as the guy playing Bond in the OP titles? I always thought he looked like one of the twins Mischa/Grischa dressed in a Bond suit.

    I'm due for a SP viewing. May pop it in this weekend.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2019 Posts: 16,378
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I dug SP titles, but wouldn’t rank them with his best (GE, CR, and SF).

    Yeah, I think they're decent but I wouldn't say they're the best either.
    One thing that does rub me up the wrong way is that guy playing Bond who clearly isn't Craig! :)

    Never noticed that. I am intrigued. As obvious as the guy playing Bond in the OP titles? I always thought he looked like one of the twins Mischa/Grischa dressed in a Bond suit.

    I'm due for a SP viewing. May pop it in this weekend.

    Yeah there's a long shot of 'Bond' and 'Madeline' standing on either side of the screen facing each other (there's probably some tentacles behind them! :) ) and neither looks like them.
    I can't think of Bond in the OP titles now...? Oh the acrobat dancer guy? I guess that's fair enough- Roger was never going to do that! :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    It’s Bond’s silhouette when spinning with a lady, clearly a dancer rather than Roger Moore. Moore only appears via still images like when the women’s’ arms with guns start covering his jacket.

    I think it’s too bad Binder wasn’t around for the advent of CGI. I imagine he would have had a lot of fun with that new toy, like he did with the laser lights and day glow paint in the 80s.
  • Posts: 1,490
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    I worked on LTK and had the pleasure of working quite close to Maurice Binder because, we, as the editing team, had to supply him with material he wanted plus technical info and music (the song once it was recorded) breakdowns etc. Maurice was well and friendly and witty. A real character. However, he was brought back late in post production because Eon had felt they needed a fresh approach to the titles. Many commercial directors and designers came in to pitch, often to the cutting rooms, and presented ideas and storyboards etc., but none of the pitches jumped out, they were all variations of Binder's work or, this was the late 80's, they were too pop video based. So, after weeks of this, Eon and John Glen, and the editors, finally all agreed to invite Binder back.

    Maurice was obviously aware others had been invited to pitch ideas, but he was a pro and a gentleman and he never complained and he dived enthusiastically into designing and shooting the title sequence, but he had a very tight deadline now. I think his LTK titles are good and, for me, visually stronger than TLD, but, even then, there was no doubt he was running out of fresh ideas for Bond.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    I worked on LTK and had the pleasure of working quite close to Maurice Binder because, we, as the editing team, had to supply him with material he wanted plus technical info and music (the song once it was recorded) breakdowns etc. Maurice was well and friendly and witty. A real character. However, he was brought back late in post production because Eon had felt they needed a fresh approach to the titles. Many commercial directors and designers came in to pitch, often to the cutting rooms, and presented ideas and storyboards etc., but none of the pitches jumped out, they were all variations of Binder's work or, this was the late 80's, they were too pop video based. So, after weeks of this, Eon and John Glen, and the editors, finally all agreed to invite Binder back.

    Maurice was obviously aware others had been invited to pitch ideas, but he was a pro and a gentleman and he never complained and he dived enthusiastically into designing and shooting the title sequence, but he had a very tight deadline now. I think his LTK titles are good and, for me, visually stronger than TLD, but, even then, there was no doubt he was running out of fresh ideas for Bond.

    Thanks for sharing that. I guess if you had to pick between Binder and a bunch of others who were only going to do derivatives of Binder, you might as well just go for the real deal. But doing it so late certainly puts one on the spot.

    As far back as GE, Daniel Kleinman was actually given scripts to the films as a way of finding inspiration of imagery. Was that a courtesy EON extended to Binder or was that something unique to the Michael and Barbara era? There’s a lot of imagery he could have done that conveyed TLD’s story points like a woman with a cello and stuff, but I don’t really see anything in the titles that could only be unique to the story or themes like he did for earlier titles like YOLT or TSWLM.
  • Posts: 1,490
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    I worked on LTK and had the pleasure of working quite close to Maurice Binder because, we, as the editing team, had to supply him with material he wanted plus technical info and music (the song once it was recorded) breakdowns etc. Maurice was well and friendly and witty. A real character. However, he was brought back late in post production because Eon had felt they needed a fresh approach to the titles. Many commercial directors and designers came in to pitch, often to the cutting rooms, and presented ideas and storyboards etc., but none of the pitches jumped out, they were all variations of Binder's work or, this was the late 80's, they were too pop video based. So, after weeks of this, Eon and John Glen, and the editors, finally all agreed to invite Binder back.

    Maurice was obviously aware others had been invited to pitch ideas, but he was a pro and a gentleman and he never complained and he dived enthusiastically into designing and shooting the title sequence, but he had a very tight deadline now. I think his LTK titles are good and, for me, visually stronger than TLD, but, even then, there was no doubt he was running out of fresh ideas for Bond.

    Thanks for sharing that. I guess if you had to pick between Binder and a bunch of others who were only going to do derivatives of Binder, you might as well just go for the real deal. But doing it so late certainly puts one on the spot.

    As far back as GE, Daniel Kleinman was actually given scripts to the films as a way of finding inspiration of imagery. Was that a courtesy EON extended to Binder or was that something unique to the Michael and Barbara era? There’s a lot of imagery he could have done that conveyed TLD’s story points like a woman with a cello and stuff, but I don’t really see anything in the titles that could only be unique to the story or themes like he did for earlier titles like YOLT or TSWLM.

    We had a special screening for Maurice of the cut - very close to fine cut - of LTK in Theatre 7 at Pinewood. He had not seen any script as far as I know (I suspect that came later with GE) because he was surprised by some of the plot points, like Leiter being tortured. I remember Binder thought it was a strong Bond film and, I got the vibe, he preferred it to TLD.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    I worked on LTK and had the pleasure of working quite close to Maurice Binder because, we, as the editing team, had to supply him with material he wanted plus technical info and music (the song once it was recorded) breakdowns etc. Maurice was well and friendly and witty. A real character. However, he was brought back late in post production because Eon had felt they needed a fresh approach to the titles. Many commercial directors and designers came in to pitch, often to the cutting rooms, and presented ideas and storyboards etc., but none of the pitches jumped out, they were all variations of Binder's work or, this was the late 80's, they were too pop video based. So, after weeks of this, Eon and John Glen, and the editors, finally all agreed to invite Binder back.

    Maurice was obviously aware others had been invited to pitch ideas, but he was a pro and a gentleman and he never complained and he dived enthusiastically into designing and shooting the title sequence, but he had a very tight deadline now. I think his LTK titles are good and, for me, visually stronger than TLD, but, even then, there was no doubt he was running out of fresh ideas for Bond.

    That's really interesting; thanks for sharing.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yes, these insider tidbits are gold.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I don’t think Binder was ill during TLD and LTK. He was pretty active with non-Bond work until he died. I think he was just less inspired the older he got. In fact for TLD he recycled a lot of imagery from this title sequence he did years earlier.



    I worked on LTK and had the pleasure of working quite close to Maurice Binder because, we, as the editing team, had to supply him with material he wanted plus technical info and music (the song once it was recorded) breakdowns etc. Maurice was well and friendly and witty. A real character. However, he was brought back late in post production because Eon had felt they needed a fresh approach to the titles. Many commercial directors and designers came in to pitch, often to the cutting rooms, and presented ideas and storyboards etc., but none of the pitches jumped out, they were all variations of Binder's work or, this was the late 80's, they were too pop video based. So, after weeks of this, Eon and John Glen, and the editors, finally all agreed to invite Binder back.

    Maurice was obviously aware others had been invited to pitch ideas, but he was a pro and a gentleman and he never complained and he dived enthusiastically into designing and shooting the title sequence, but he had a very tight deadline now. I think his LTK titles are good and, for me, visually stronger than TLD, but, even then, there was no doubt he was running out of fresh ideas for Bond.

    Amazing tidbit, @ColonelSun. Thanks for sharing.
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