007 heading to streaming? Amazon buys MGM for $8.45 billion!

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  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 960
    For all we know NTTD is how all the Bonds’ stories end.

    And honestly, that would be something. Unfortunately my experience of other media suggests that later writers will often ignore & replace significant events like these not written by the original author, feeling that they could do it better.

    We'll just have to see how it goes.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,247
    For all we know NTTD is how all the Bonds’ stories end.

    And honestly, that would be something. Unfortunately my experience of other media suggests that later writers will often ignore & replace significant events like these not written by the original author, feeling that they could do it better.

    We'll just have to see how it goes.

    I seriously doubt screenwriters most of the time write these scripts thinking it’s “better” than what Fleming wrote. Most of the time it’s either about just wanting to try something different from what was done before, or in cases like GOLDFINGER alter things because of adapting for the format that is visual medium.

    Bond in the novel never sees Tilly painted gold, he’s only told that after the fact, and that works for the novel because readers can visualize it for themselves. But for a visual medium like film it makes more sense to have the audiences be with Bond actually discovering Tilly on that bed, rather than it be just something told to him after the fact.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 960
    For all we know NTTD is how all the Bonds’ stories end.

    And honestly, that would be something. Unfortunately my experience of other media suggests that later writers will often ignore & replace significant events like these not written by the original author, feeling that they could do it better.

    We'll just have to see how it goes.

    I seriously doubt screenwriters most of the time write these scripts thinking it’s “better” than what Fleming wrote. Most of the time it’s either about just wanting to try something different from what was done before, or in cases like GOLDFINGER alter things because of adapting for the format that is visual medium.

    Bond in the novel never sees Tilly painted gold, he’s only told that after the fact, and that works for the novel because readers can visualize it for themselves. But for a visual medium like film it makes more sense to have the audiences be with Bond actually discovering Tilly on that bed, rather than it be just something told to him after the fact.
    Apologies, I obviously didn't word my point well - I meant that while new writers might respect Fleming as first-tier canon, a death of a major Fleming character by a newer writer will not be given the same level of respect.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,247
    By that logic no screenwriter deserves respect when they deviate from Fleming’s original text regardless.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 960
    I don't know, you seem to be saying that killing Bond or Leiter is the same as minor embellishments, which is a very hard-line viewpoint I don't subscribe to (though no doubt there are some who feel that way).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 26 Posts: 24,273
    For all we know NTTD is how all the Bonds’ stories end.

    Either like that, or he dies from liver cirrhosis. :))
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,247
    For me it doesn’t really matter because Craig’s run is ultimately self contained and will be its own thing. The next Bond will probably not die in his last film because it was already done by his immediate predecessor, but maybe the 10th actor will get it in his final entry. As long as it works for the film I’m fine with it.
  • Posts: 1,999
    What's the point of preserving continuity with the Craig films?

    There is no point. Let them stand on their own.
  • edited December 26 Posts: 375
    It's easy to continue continuity. Okay, I accept Bond surviving is a a stretch in credibility but it's doable and when Bond returns to MI6 all you need is one scene to explain the backstory.

    M says to Bond " welcome back, 007. Pity about Swann."

    Bond replies saying "the relationship didn't work out. It was agreed she had full custody of Mathilde. It's for the best."

    M nods in agreement.


    Bond's family is never mentioned again. This allows the writers to preserve continuity from NTTD and to avoid rehashing Bond's family. It's a clean slate moving forward.

    Bond is the same Bond as Craig's Bond. He has the physical and emotional scars of NTTD but we get all that stuff over with in the first act of Bond 26. Once Bond has recovered and back as a fully fit 00 agent he's the established Bond with no more emotional baggage. Clean slate. No mention of Swann, his daughter, SPECTRE.

    I think it's worth using SPECTRE in a future film but not in Bond 26.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,247
    That’s not gonna happen, so I hope you won’t be confused throughout the film not addressing NTTD.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,403
    I don't know, you seem to be saying that killing Bond or Leiter is the same as minor embellishments, which is a very hard-line viewpoint I don't subscribe to (though no doubt there are some who feel that way).

    Fleming flirted with and implied these very things. FRWL was not a happy ending, and DN was never assured.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 960
    echo wrote: »
    I don't know, you seem to be saying that killing Bond or Leiter is the same as minor embellishments, which is a very hard-line viewpoint I don't subscribe to (though no doubt there are some who feel that way).

    Fleming flirted with and implied these very things. FRWL was not a happy ending, and DN was never assured.

    Yes, Fleming considered killing Bond and may have considered killing Leiter, but that's not relevant to the point I was making.
  • Posts: 575
    Continuity doesn't matter. It really doesn't. The audience knows that Christian Bale, Ben Affleck, and Robert Pattinson are all different guys even though it is the same character.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,403
    echo wrote: »
    I don't know, you seem to be saying that killing Bond or Leiter is the same as minor embellishments, which is a very hard-line viewpoint I don't subscribe to (though no doubt there are some who feel that way).

    Fleming flirted with and implied these very things. FRWL was not a happy ending, and DN was never assured.

    Yes, Fleming considered killing Bond and may have considered killing Leiter, but that's not relevant to the point I was making.

    "Bond scholar John Griswold notes that in the original draft of the story, Fleming killed Leiter off in the shark attack; when Naomi Burton, Fleming's US agent with Curtis Brown protested about the death of the character, Fleming relented and Leiter lived, albeit missing an arm and half a leg."

    https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Felix_Leiter_(Literary)
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 960
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I don't know, you seem to be saying that killing Bond or Leiter is the same as minor embellishments, which is a very hard-line viewpoint I don't subscribe to (though no doubt there are some who feel that way).

    Fleming flirted with and implied these very things. FRWL was not a happy ending, and DN was never assured.

    Yes, Fleming considered killing Bond and may have considered killing Leiter, but that's not relevant to the point I was making.

    "Bond scholar John Griswold notes that in the original draft of the story, Fleming killed Leiter off in the shark attack; when Naomi Burton, Fleming's US agent with Curtis Brown protested about the death of the character, Fleming relented and Leiter lived, albeit missing an arm and half a leg."

    https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Felix_Leiter_(Literary)

    Thanks, but it’s still not relevant to the point that I was making, which was
    that while new writers might respect Fleming as first-tier canon, a death of a major Fleming character by a newer writer will not be given the same level of respect
    later writers will often ignore & replace significant events like these not written by the original author, feeling that they could do it better.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 10:10am Posts: 16,638
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I don't know, you seem to be saying that killing Bond or Leiter is the same as minor embellishments, which is a very hard-line viewpoint I don't subscribe to (though no doubt there are some who feel that way).

    Fleming flirted with and implied these very things. FRWL was not a happy ending, and DN was never assured.

    Yes, Fleming considered killing Bond and may have considered killing Leiter, but that's not relevant to the point I was making.

    "Bond scholar John Griswold notes that in the original draft of the story, Fleming killed Leiter off in the shark attack; when Naomi Burton, Fleming's US agent with Curtis Brown protested about the death of the character, Fleming relented and Leiter lived, albeit missing an arm and half a leg."

    https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Felix_Leiter_(Literary)

    I don't think I knew that, thank you, that's very interesting. Makes sense too, there's kind of no point to Felix surviving.
    I tend to think they should have killed him off in LTK especially. It's a revenge thriller- kill the guy. There's no payoff to his not dying; an unusual case of Eon sticking to the original text a bit too much.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    edited 2:01pm Posts: 108
    bondywondy wrote: »
    It's easy to continue continuity. Okay, I accept Bond surviving is a a stretch in credibility but it's doable and when Bond returns to MI6 all you need is one scene to explain the backstory.

    M says to Bond " welcome back, 007. Pity about Swann."

    Bond replies saying "the relationship didn't work out. It was agreed she had full custody of Mathilde. It's for the best."

    M nods in agreement.


    Bond's family is never mentioned again. This allows the writers to preserve continuity from NTTD and to avoid rehashing Bond's family. It's a clean slate moving forward.

    Bond is the same Bond as Craig's Bond. He has the physical and emotional scars of NTTD but we get all that stuff over with in the first act of Bond 26. Once Bond has recovered and back as a fully fit 00 agent he's the established Bond with no more emotional baggage. Clean slate. No mention of Swann, his daughter, SPECTRE.

    I think it's worth using SPECTRE in a future film but not in Bond 26.

    This would raise more questions than answers.

    How did Bond survive the missile? How did they assure that Heracles would not be transmitted to Madeleine and Mathilde? Why would Bond keep working for MI6, if he had already quit the service deciding the life of an assassin is not for him (even after him and Madeleine had broken up in Matera he was still in retirement), and why would he risk his life knowing he has a young daughter somewhere?
    As for the last point, yes, lots of parents risk their lives despite having young children (soldiers, policemen, firemen and so on), but him dismissing everything with a throwaway line at the beginning feels very insensitive, as if he couldn't care less about Mathilde growing up without a father, especially after he'd already missed her first years.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,247
    BMB007 wrote: »
    Continuity doesn't matter. It really doesn't. The audience knows that Christian Bale, Ben Affleck, and Robert Pattinson are all different guys even though it is the same character.

    Exactly. Audiences have become so accustomed to the idea of different iterations of characters that’s why they’ll have no trouble with being ready for a new Bond with a clean slate.

    It’s only a few Bond fans that I notice having difficulty to this idea of Bond existing as different iterations with each actor. As if they’re so used to this idea of one large continuity spanning decades that they wanted to see the same apply to Craig’s, as if we’ll see Fiennes, Whishaw, and Harris continue on much like Lee, Llewelyn, and Maxwell did back in the old days. Those days are gone.
  • Posts: 1,999
    idk why its so hard for some to understand. Craigs Bond films are a stand alone timeline. His Bond is dead. Whoever comes in next it will be a different timeline.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,638
    It’s only a few Bond fans that I notice having difficulty to this idea of Bond existing as different iterations with each actor.

    I do find it curious: it's not as if anyone expects the next Hamlet or Sherlock Holmes to be in the same continuity as all the previous ones.
    And Bond for me was never like that anyway. I never thought that the guy going after Sanchez had flown into space on a shuttle and driven a hover gondola around Venice a few years earlier.
  • Posts: 2,297
    I put the blame on superhero movies for this obsession with continuity.
  • Posts: 4,321
    Well, to be fair things like the codename thing pre-dates all that from what I understand. I think it just comes from trying to impose concrete logic onto fictional stories for whatever reason. I don't know why. It seems like an absolutely pointless task.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 4:02pm Posts: 16,638
    It comes from being a fan and wanting to sort of drape yourself in the fictional world you're involved with; I can understand that, I've done that myself in the past. But it doesn't really work with Bond, it doesn't even work with Fleming (whose lack of being hugely interested with the detail of things lead to his Bond having bought his Bentley when he was about 10 years old) because these are mass-media stories which aren't focussed on the fanbase, unlike some of these superhero things.

    A bit of short term continuity is great between films, so they're interested in Vesper or whatever; and an in-joke which lots of people will remember is also good, like the DB5 turning up, but no-one cares if Bond met Dikko Henderson in a film in the 60s or whatever.
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