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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Given the complaints of Bond only sleeping with one woman, do you guys realize who’s the only other Bond to only sleep with one woman in a film?

    Yeah, Sean never beds Plenty O'Toole in Diamonds, does he?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,216
    Correct!

    And on the 50th anniversary, quite fitting. ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Univex wrote: »
    NeverSayNever wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    There were rumours of a cloning theme to the NTTD. What if Q stored Bond's DNA and they clone another Jame's Bond. More sensible than some of the ideas posted? (yes, I know, bonkers)

    Reminds me of Jurassic Park.

    :)) :)) :))

    They’d clone a “sexist misogynistic dinosaur”
    =))

    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I only wish Quantum, an abysmal name, was left unnamed like in CR for a smoother transition but oh well.
    Greene: You promised that you'd...
    Bond: Let you go?
    Greene: I answered your questions. I told you what you wanted to know about...
    (uncomfortable pause)
    Bond: About what?
    Greene: You know. About that.
    Bond: No, I don't know. What do you mean?
    Greene: You know. That thing we talked about.
    Bond: What, the weather?
    Greene: No, the other thing.
    Bond: Oooh... that. Yes, you did, and your friends would know that... whatever it's called.

    (Just kidding, I too wish they had never used the name Quantum, and after they did, I wish they had explicitly stated in the next film that it was a branch of Spectre).
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 698
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I hope they do go for a complete Goldeneye style reboot, nothing from the DC era carrying over, let it be its own universe.

    I do feel nervous about Bond 26 though, because everything is on the table with the ending of NTTD, I never thought we'd witness the death of Bond. Now we have I think subverting expectations will become the new normal going forward and standalone missions will be a think of the past.

    Whenever Barbara talks about the next Bond film, she talks about what emotional journey Bond will go on, so I can't see standalone impersonal missions coming back and I think Bond being promiscuous has gone too. It's more likely they'll build another new universe with Bond #7, which to my mind would dilute the specialness of Daniel's run.

    Daniel is my favourite and I've loved the arc we've gone on with him but I do think his world is the smallest of all the actors, every new character seems to know of past characters and events and such. As much I enjoyed Spectre and NTTD, I sort of wish we would have got to see that mission M handed to him at the end of Skyfall instead

    If NTTD becomes a big financial hit, the subversion is only going to get worse. At this point, the only director I can envision standing up to it is Nolan.
  • NeverSayNeverNeverSayNever Rome
    Posts: 131
    Jordo007 wrote: »

    Whenever Barbara talks about the next Bond film, she talks about what emotional journey Bond will go on

    oh please...
    slide_99 wrote: »
    If NTTD becomes a big financial hit, the subversion is only going to get worse. At this point, the only director I can envision standing up to it is Nolan.

    I think Nolan is brilliant, and he certainly has the clout to stand his ground vis-a-vis producers, but I am not sure he would stand up to it. One might say his films did to Batman what the DC!Bond films did to Bond, so Nolan's Bond could be very much in the same vein, albeit more detached. And as people were saying in another thread, if Tenet is his idea of a spy action film, a Nolan Bond could be a struggle to watch. That said, I'd love to be proven wrong on it, and would 100 % watch it if it happened.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Given the complaints of Bond only sleeping with one woman, do you guys realize who’s the only other Bond to only sleep with one woman in a film?

    Well also in CR he only sleeps with one woman right
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,086
    In the books is was only usually one anyway.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,216
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Given the complaints of Bond only sleeping with one woman, do you guys realize who’s the only other Bond to only sleep with one woman in a film?

    Well also in CR he only sleeps with one woman right

    And QOS with Strawberry Fields.

    I did think it was odd that they had Craig not sleep with Solange. Could have easily showed them after the deed and that’s when she gives him the info on her husband that he’s trying to find out about. Oh well.

    The Mendes films are the only entries that Craig Bond gets to have multiple women.


    Also, was OHMSS the only novel Fleming had Bond sleep with multiple women?
  • MrsAuralSectsMrsAuralSects
    Posts: 214
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    sworddevil1 wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    I suppose it depends on who you ask. The only reception I've heard has been positive. In real life, of course. Obviously I've read dissenting remarks online.
    I guess it just depends on who one talks to. The ending seems to overpower the views of those I talk to. They will say I liked this and that, but that ending...
    I’m in the states, so that could make a difference.

    My circle of family and friends didn't like it either, and we are based in the UK. Not sure if that says much. Going by the critics and the fans on here, it seems like the whole of planet earth loved the film....except just us few unfortunates. ;)

    I have a curmudgeon friend who loves classic Bond, so I was expecting him to rip it...instead he is singing praises and went back to see it 2x

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I hope they do go for a complete Goldeneye style reboot, nothing from the DC era carrying over, let it be its own universe.

    I do feel nervous about Bond 26 though, because everything is on the table with the ending of NTTD, I never thought we'd witness the death of Bond. Now we have I think subverting expectations will become the new normal going forward and standalone missions will be a think of the past.

    Whenever Barbara talks about the next Bond film, she talks about what emotional journey Bond will go on, so I can't see standalone impersonal missions coming back and I think Bond being promiscuous has gone too. It's more likely they'll build another new universe with Bond #7, which to my mind would dilute the specialness of Daniel's run.

    Daniel is my favourite and I've loved the arc we've gone on with him but I do think his world is the smallest of all the actors, every new character seems to know of past characters and events and such. As much I enjoyed Spectre and NTTD, I sort of wish we would have got to see that mission M handed to him at the end of Skyfall instead

    If NTTD becomes a big financial hit, the subversion is only going to get worse. At this point, the only director I can envision standing up to it is Nolan.

    But what subversion? Yes, there are some elements that were turned on its head a little bit, but over the course of DC's five films, we still had...

    gun barrels
    theme songs
    martinis
    "Bond, James Bond"
    girls
    cars
    some gadgets
    some humor
    henchmen
    brilliant locales
    fight scenes
    car chases
    stunts
    mystery
    intrigue

    In some cases, these Bondian elements were twisted, to great effect. The "Do I look like I give a damn?" line in CR. Or the implied ordering of a martini in SF. Or the manner in which "Bond, James Bond" is delivered in NTTD.

    Sam Mendes said that the trick to doing a Bond film is knowing there are certain pieces of furniture that must remain in the room and that you have to rearrange them in a way that they remain fresh. I agree.

    EON can't keep producing carbon copies of the same film or of the same narrative. I can't fault them for wanting to break the mold a little bit, even when that fails (as in SP).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,229
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Given the complaints of Bond only sleeping with one woman, do you guys realize who’s the only other Bond to only sleep with one woman in a film?

    Well also in CR he only sleeps with one woman right

    And QOS with Strawberry Fields.

    I did think it was odd that they had Craig not sleep with Solange. Could have easily showed them after the deed and that’s when she gives him the info on her husband that he’s trying to find out about. Oh well.

    The Mendes films are the only entries that Craig Bond gets to have multiple women.


    Also, was OHMSS the only novel Fleming had Bond sleep with multiple women?

    I'd like to imagine they had a quickie before he leaves...
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    That shot of a tearful Madeleine on the train, looking at Bond, is really touching. As is the moment when the train starts to move and she grabs her stomach. Great touch. You can almost sense her sorrow, confusion and despair.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    I will say it again: Lea made some GREAT choices as an actress in NTTD. She conveys so much with her gestures, body language, and eyes. It is an excellent performance and the script gave her so much more to work with in this one. I am really sold on her relationship with Bond, and I appreciate her subtle work in this. Just the look on her face, in the DB5, as the window is about to shatter and she is urging Bond to do something, say something - that look is just spot on, realistic, not "pretty girl in trouble" just very fine acting. I do love the two of them in this movie but the main reason is Lea's and Dan's acting taking it to another level. This film is very believeable to me and has lots of layers.

    If they had given me another Spectre-light Bond film and tried to have a dramatic but upbeat ending that would please majority of fans, I would have been slightly disappointed but enjoyed it. With NTTD, I was given so much more than that; which was a very welcome surprise for me.

    In this movie, I am given what I consider to be the most fitting end for this truly great, and different, more realistic Bond we have that is Craig's Bond ... and NTTD is meaningful, moving, so thoughtfully done. I appreciate them going all out for NTTD - a difficult but worthy script, superb acting, stunning cinematography and great, memorable action scenes - all wrapping up in a story that moves with splendid pacing, editing, and inspired direction. AND a story that moves us in our minds and hearts. I think NTTD is overwhelmingly successful as a Bond film, and the right ending for this particular Bond. Whatever flaws it has remain minor to me (I have seen it 3 times) and I am thankful to have this one as the bookend for Daniel Craig's Bond. What a fantastic, unforgettable set of movies he gave us. B-)
  • nobodydoesitbetternobodydoesitbetter
    Posts: 1,021
    I saw the film twice in 4 days. The first time I had a great time until the end. Which I absolutely loathed. The 2nd time I had an even better time and I hated the end even more than the first time.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    Venutius wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    I know people love Skyfall and think Silva is the bees knees and all that, but what Mendes effectively did with that movie was sink the attempt at integrating Bond in a realistic environment and returned him to the realm of comic book stuff. Le Chiffre was a fairly realistic villian, as was Greene... Silva is just the Joker. Blofeld was Lex Luthor....it jettisoned everything CR/QOS worked towards.
    Yes, I'm another one of those six blokes that preferred QOS to SF. I remember the sinking feeling I got when I heard that SF would have gags, gadgets, Moneypenny, Q, etc. I really feared them ditching what they'd built since 2006 and doing a 360 back towards DAD. When I saw SF, I was relieved that they hadn't gone all the way back down the path, but thought it a big drop off from the first two Craig films. I do like it a lot but I loved CR and QOS and wanted as much more of that as I could get.

    Count me as one of those 'six 😁
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,616
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    I know people love Skyfall and think Silva is the bees knees and all that, but what Mendes effectively did with that movie was sink the attempt at integrating Bond in a realistic environment and returned him to the realm of comic book stuff. Le Chiffre was a fairly realistic villian, as was Greene... Silva is just the Joker. Blofeld was Lex Luthor....it jettisoned everything CR/QOS worked towards.
    Yes, I'm another one of those six blokes that preferred QOS to SF. I remember the sinking feeling I got when I heard that SF would have gags, gadgets, Moneypenny, Q, etc. I really feared them ditching what they'd built since 2006 and doing a 360 back towards DAD. When I saw SF, I was relieved that they hadn't gone all the way back down the path, but thought it a big drop off from the first two Craig films. I do like it a lot but I loved CR and QOS and wanted as much more of that as I could get.

    Count me as one of those 'six 😁

    And me! Love QOS, i plan to do a "Bond Comments as you watch" on Sunday on it!
  • NeverSayNeverNeverSayNever Rome
    edited October 2021 Posts: 131
    TripAces wrote: »
    But what subversion? Yes, there are some elements that were turned on its head a little bit, but over the course of DC's five films, we still had...

    gun barrels
    theme songs
    martinis
    "Bond, James Bond"
    girls
    cars
    some gadgets
    some humor
    henchmen
    brilliant locales
    fight scenes
    car chases
    stunts
    mystery
    intrigue

    [...]
    EON can't keep producing carbon copies of the same film or of the same narrative. I can't fault them for wanting to break the mold a little bit, even when that fails (as in SP).

    The subversion is less about gun barrels and martinis and more about altering Bond as a character: making him Blofeld’s foster brother, a family man, a father and, ultimately, a tragic figure. Bond had his issues in pre-Craig films, but the only time he was ever tragic before was for a minute or so at the end of OHMSS. This is like filling a cake with baked beans and insisting it is still a cake because it has icing on top.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 488
    Ryan wrote: »
    It's confirmed - Mathilde is the new 007. ;)

    Mathilde is too long a name. She will be called Mata Bond.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 698
    TripAces wrote: »
    But what subversion?

    The way every single Craig movie spends its runtime deconstructing Craig's Bond and then reconstructing him for the final scene only, promising audiences a proper Bond movie next time out. It worked with CR, but they repeated it for another 3 movies, and now with NTTD they've completed the deconstruction of Craig's Bond by blowing him up.

    In a way, the CraigNotBond trolls from way back in 2006- people I hated back then- have been proven right because of NTTD. Craig wasn't really Bond, he was the guy who tried to be Bond and then died. NTTD's ending renders the whole point of the CR reboot pointless. It started off by stating, "This is how Bond became Bond," but now it's, "Here's why this particular version of Bond is tragic and has to sacrifice himself for family."
    NeverSayNever wrote: »
    The subversion is less about gun barrels and martinis and more about altering Bond as a character: making him Blofeld’s foster brother, a family man, a father and, ultimately, a tragic figure. Bond had his issues in pre-Craig films, but the only time he was ever tragic before was for a minute or so at the end of OHMSS. This is like filling a cake with baked beans and insisting it is still a cake because it has icing on top.

    Yeah, this. The Craig era has all the trappings of Bond, all the superificial stuff that Mendes was obsessed with (Goldfinger Aston Martin since he had a toy one as a kid), but in my opinion there's a big, empty hole in the center of the Craig era, and that's Craig's Bond himself. It's partially his own fault but it's more due to the producers not having a clear idea of what to do with his character after CR.

  • BenjaminBenjamin usa
    edited October 2021 Posts: 59
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    ....In this movie, I am given what I consider to be the most fitting end for this truly great, and different, more realistic Bond we have that is Craig's Bond ... and NTTD is meaningful, moving, so thoughtfully done. I appreciate them going all out for NTTD - a difficult but worthy script, superb acting, stunning cinematography and great, memorable action scenes - all wrapping up in a story that moves with splendid pacing, editing, and inspired direction. AND a story that moves us in our minds and hearts. I think NTTD is overwhelmingly successful as a Bond film, and the right ending for this particular Bond. Whatever flaws it has remain minor to me (I have seen it 3 times) and I am thankful to have this one as the bookend for Daniel Craig's Bond. What a fantastic, unforgettable set of movies he gave us. B-)

    Excellent review from my pov.
  • mepal1mepal1
    Posts: 1,098
    I thought Mathilde was a little star in the film........and she has quite a bit of screen time. Funny how no one hear mentions her or that other character Logan Ash.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Here is a great little clip (brief) which you have all probably already seen many times. But I just feel like putting it here.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, the child actors were wonderful. So pleased, as that could have really not gone quite right but both were splendid.
  • NeverSayNeverNeverSayNever Rome
    Posts: 131
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The Craig era has all the trappings of Bond, all the superificial stuff that Mendes was obsessed with (Goldfinger Aston Martin since he had a toy one as a kid), but in my opinion there's a big, empty hole in the center of the Craig era, and that's Craig's Bond himself.

    Exactly.
    I've been on the fence on Craig's Bond from the outset as IMO he is convincing as a blunt instrument with a conscience, but lacks charisma for the role. Skyfall won me over, but it turned out to be the high point.
  • BenjaminBenjamin usa
    Posts: 59
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    Here is a great little clip (brief) which you have all probably already seen many times. But I just feel like putting it here.

    That's an excellent ad. Thanks for posting. I'm really starting to like BE's song, which I realize fits the movie really well. Before the movie it didn't do much for me, but now....wow.

    If you have any more ads hope you'll post them.
  • mepal1mepal1
    Posts: 1,098
    SF won people over not so much due to Craig, but to the film having a charismatic villain in Javier Bardem's portrayal of Silva.........ps Craig's near skin head haircut for SF did him no favours!
  • DoubleOhDaltonDoubleOhDalton
    Posts: 65
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Given the complaints of Bond only sleeping with one woman, do you guys realize who’s the only other Bond to only sleep with one woman in a film?

    Well also in CR he only sleeps with one woman right

    And QOS with Strawberry Fields.

    I did think it was odd that they had Craig not sleep with Solange. Could have easily showed them after the deed and that’s when she gives him the info on her husband that he’s trying to find out about. Oh well.

    The Mendes films are the only entries that Craig Bond gets to have multiple women.


    Also, was OHMSS the only novel Fleming had Bond sleep with multiple women?

    That’s the point the we expected him to bed her but he already had the info and no patients to f*ck around. So he leaves.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    I can't wait to get a copy of the BluRay and analyse the hell out of every single frame :)
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    The more I think about this film,the more I dislike it.It’s amazing that the producers spare no expense in assembling great talent for cinematography,stunts,actors,but don’t throw a lot of thought into getting good writers to craft a coherent script.

    There is a lot to admire about this film but the ending is a real downer.It doesn’t leave you with the happy feeling a Bond film should.True,the same could be said of OHMSS ( which NTTD rips off shamelessly and needlessly) but it was the only way that particular story could end and left Bond free to carry on in subsequent adventures.

    After such a promising start in CR,the Craig era went downhill very fast in the awful QOS and it didn’t really improve from there.I hope the next era brings the fun ( and stand-alone adventures) back to the series.
  • FlemingBondFlemingBond Arizona, United States
    Posts: 3
    i couldn't agree more with that, and with slide_99 as well. i generally liked the first two craig films, but kept hoping they'd lighten a bit. Instead the last two films have turned me off completely on his films
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