NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    CURRENT RANK SURVEY (AUDIENCE/CRITICS) OF 'NO TIME TO DIE' AMONG ALL EON JAMES BOND FILMS:

    Rotten Tomatoes:
    Audience: #3
    Critics: #7
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/james_bond_007

    IMDB Average User Ratings of all EON films:
    1. CR 8.0
    2. SF 7.8
    3. GF 7.7
    4. NTTD 7.5
        FRWL 7.4
    6. DN 7.2
        GE 7.2
    8. TSWLM 7.1
    9. TB 7.0
    10. YOLT 6.8
          LALD 6.8
          SP 6.8
    13. OHMSS 6.7
           TMWTGG 6.7
           FYEO 6.7
           TLD 6.7
    17. DAF 6.6
           LTK 6.6
           QOS 6.6
    20. OP 6.5
           TND 6.5
    22.  TWINE 6.4
    23.  AVTAK 6.3
    24.  MR 6.3
    25.  DAD 6.1

    Metacritic: #6 (tie):
    https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/every-james-bond-film-ranked-worst-to-best
    [Dated Oct. 5 but it appears to be a live ranking]
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    But what abiut Safin shooting about 5 bullets oin Bond, which (unlike in the other moves) hit and hurt him? He needed to reopen the blast doors, and, even if he had not been poioned with nanobots, how was he supposed to öleave the island, esepcially with the missiles approaching fast? The jetpack from THUNDERBALL? Little Nelly? The Union Jack parachute? All I'm saying is, that when you write, he must have survived, how? Would mean a complete rewrite of the third act. And Bond does not have a bullett-proof skin...

    Or he could have quickly fashioned the soft toy into some manner parasurfing contraption and surfed the thermals from the explosion in a cool cgi stunt

  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 692
    Feyador wrote: »
    CURRENT RANK SURVEY (AUDIENCE/CRITICS) OF 'NO TIME TO DIE' AMONG ALL EON JAMES BOND FILMS:

    Rotten Tomatoes:
    Audience: #3
    Critics: #7
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/james_bond_007

    IMDB Average User Ratings of all EON films:
    1. CR 8.0
    2. SF 7.8
    3. GF 7.7
    4. NTTD 7.5
        FRWL 7.4
    6. DN 7.2
        GE 7.2
    8. TSWLM 7.1
    9. TB 7.0
    10. YOLT 6.8
          LALD 6.8
          SP 6.8
    13. OHMSS 6.7
           TMWTGG 6.7
           FYEO 6.7
           TLD 6.7
    17. DAF 6.6
           LTK 6.6
           QOS 6.6
    20. OP 6.5
           TND 6.5
    22.  TWINE 6.4
    23.  AVTAK 6.3
    24.  MR 6.3
    25.  DAD 6.1

    Metacritic: #6 (tie):
    https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/every-james-bond-film-ranked-worst-to-best
    [Dated Oct. 5 but it appears to be a live ranking]

    Metacritic's user score for NTTD is 6.3, making it one of the lower-ranked entries.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,343
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    CURRENT RANK SURVEY (AUDIENCE/CRITICS) OF 'NO TIME TO DIE' AMONG ALL EON JAMES BOND FILMS:

    Rotten Tomatoes:
    Audience: #3
    Critics: #7
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/james_bond_007

    IMDB Average User Ratings of all EON films:
    1. CR 8.0
    2. SF 7.8
    3. GF 7.7
    4. NTTD 7.5
        FRWL 7.4
    6. DN 7.2
        GE 7.2
    8. TSWLM 7.1
    9. TB 7.0
    10. YOLT 6.8
          LALD 6.8
          SP 6.8
    13. OHMSS 6.7
           TMWTGG 6.7
           FYEO 6.7
           TLD 6.7
    17. DAF 6.6
           LTK 6.6
           QOS 6.6
    20. OP 6.5
           TND 6.5
    22.  TWINE 6.4
    23.  AVTAK 6.3
    24.  MR 6.3
    25.  DAD 6.1

    Metacritic: #6 (tie):
    https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/every-james-bond-film-ranked-worst-to-best
    [Dated Oct. 5 but it appears to be a live ranking]

    Metacritic's user score for NTTD is 6.3, making it one of the lower-ranked entries.

    189.032 votes on IMDB against 434 on Metacritic. Try again.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Hate the film all you want, but I'll never understand actively hoping for any installment of this series to bomb. I would've assumed we'd all want more Bond films.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    CURRENT RANK SURVEY (AUDIENCE/CRITICS) OF 'NO TIME TO DIE' AMONG ALL EON JAMES BOND FILMS:

    Rotten Tomatoes:
    Audience: #3
    Critics: #7
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/james_bond_007

    IMDB Average User Ratings of all EON films:
    1. CR 8.0
    2. SF 7.8
    3. GF 7.7
    4. NTTD 7.5
        FRWL 7.4
    6. DN 7.2
        GE 7.2
    8. TSWLM 7.1
    9. TB 7.0
    10. YOLT 6.8
          LALD 6.8
          SP 6.8
    13. OHMSS 6.7
           TMWTGG 6.7
           FYEO 6.7
           TLD 6.7
    17. DAF 6.6
           LTK 6.6
           QOS 6.6
    20. OP 6.5
           TND 6.5
    22.  TWINE 6.4
    23.  AVTAK 6.3
    24.  MR 6.3
    25.  DAD 6.1

    Metacritic: #6 (tie):
    https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/every-james-bond-film-ranked-worst-to-best
    [Dated Oct. 5 but it appears to be a live ranking]

    Metacritic's user score for NTTD is 6.3, making it one of the lower-ranked entries.

    And you haven’t seen it yet.

    Bye.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    But what abiut Safin shooting about 5 bullets oin Bond, which (unlike in the other moves) hit and hurt him? He needed to reopen the blast doors, and, even if he had not been poioned with nanobots, how was he supposed to öleave the island, esepcially with the missiles approaching fast? The jetpack from THUNDERBALL? Little Nelly? The Union Jack parachute? All I'm saying is, that when you write, he must have survived, how? Would mean a complete rewrite of the third act. And Bond does not have a bullett-proof skin...

    Or he could have quickly fashioned the soft toy into some manner parasurfing contraption and surfed the thermals from the explosion in a cool cgi stunt

    :))
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 735
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    CURRENT RANK SURVEY (AUDIENCE/CRITICS) OF 'NO TIME TO DIE' AMONG ALL EON JAMES BOND FILMS:

    Rotten Tomatoes:
    Audience: #3
    Critics: #7
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/james_bond_007

    IMDB Average User Ratings of all EON films:
    1. CR 8.0
    2. SF 7.8
    3. GF 7.7
    4. NTTD 7.5
        FRWL 7.4
    6. DN 7.2
        GE 7.2
    8. TSWLM 7.1
    9. TB 7.0
    10. YOLT 6.8
          LALD 6.8
          SP 6.8
    13. OHMSS 6.7
           TMWTGG 6.7
           FYEO 6.7
           TLD 6.7
    17. DAF 6.6
           LTK 6.6
           QOS 6.6
    20. OP 6.5
           TND 6.5
    22.  TWINE 6.4
    23.  AVTAK 6.3
    24.  MR 6.3
    25.  DAD 6.1

    Metacritic: #6 (tie):
    https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/every-james-bond-film-ranked-worst-to-best
    [Dated Oct. 5 but it appears to be a live ranking]

    Metacritic's user score for NTTD is 6.3, making it one of the lower-ranked entries.
    matt_u wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    CURRENT RANK SURVEY (AUDIENCE/CRITICS) OF 'NO TIME TO DIE' AMONG ALL EON JAMES BOND FILMS:

    Rotten Tomatoes:
    Audience: #3
    Critics: #7
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/james_bond_007

    IMDB Average User Ratings of all EON films:
    1. CR 8.0
    2. SF 7.8
    3. GF 7.7
    4. NTTD 7.5
        FRWL 7.4
    6. DN 7.2
        GE 7.2
    8. TSWLM 7.1
    9. TB 7.0
    10. YOLT 6.8
          LALD 6.8
          SP 6.8
    13. OHMSS 6.7
           TMWTGG 6.7
           FYEO 6.7
           TLD 6.7
    17. DAF 6.6
           LTK 6.6
           QOS 6.6
    20. OP 6.5
           TND 6.5
    22.  TWINE 6.4
    23.  AVTAK 6.3
    24.  MR 6.3
    25.  DAD 6.1

    Metacritic: #6 (tie):
    https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/every-james-bond-film-ranked-worst-to-best
    [Dated Oct. 5 but it appears to be a live ranking]

    Metacritic's user score for NTTD is 6.3, making it one of the lower-ranked entries.

    189.032 votes on IMDB against 434 on Metacritic. Try again.

    Yes, there are far more IMDB than Metacritic user ratings. Also by point of comparison:

    LALD IMDB USER RATINGS: 103,134
    LALD METACRITIC USER RATINGS: 53

    DN IMDB USER RATINGS: 159,217
    DN METACRITIC USER RATINGS: 82

    But still, NTTD is one of the lower ranked Bond films among Metacritic users. Why? I don't know ("review bombing," possibly?), especially as the overall Metacritic user ranking is not that different from IMDB users, except in at least one other notable exception: where IMDB users (213,514) rank DAD at #25, Metacritic users (361) rank the same film at #5. Make of that what you will.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I think it’s absolutely hilarious that @slide_99 is virtually ignoring every other metric of audience voting but then points out the one with a minuscule user amount and is like “THERE! CALLED IT! THIS MOVIE IS A BUST!!”

    And he hasn’t even seen the goddamn film.

    =))
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    Meta critic, Rotten maters, imdb, etc. Okay. But just look at general reactions on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and so on (where the vast majority of regular voters and Bond fans are). It’s fair to use the aforementioned ones that I spoke of, but if you want a big picture opinion scale, social media takes in a vastly larger and truer sample. People who have voted on Meta Critic, RT, Imdb, I.e. are more likely serious fans. And of course here the same is true. I don’t like the movie, but I’m glad it is doing well at the box office (internationally). But if you search out Bond Facebook pages, Twitter users, Instagrams, you’ll find that most did not like it. My uncle Watched it and he simply refuses to believe Bond died. And he liked the film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I think it’s absolutely hilarious that @slide_99 is virtually ignoring every other metric of audience voting but then points out the one with a minuscule user amount and is like “THERE! CALLED IT! THIS MOVIE IS A BUST!!”

    And he hasn’t even seen the goddamn film.

    =))

    People keep noting this bit of information yet keep getting outraged about it and reply to every post he makes, instead of ignoring him. That's why he keeps doing it. He's winning.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 8,183
    Meta critic, Rotten maters, imdb, etc. Okay. But just look at general reactions on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and so on (where the vast majority of regular voters and Bond fans are). It’s fair to use the aforementioned ones that I spoke of, but if you want a big picture opinion scale, social media takes in a vastly larger and truer sample. People who have voted on Meta Critic, RT, Imdb, I.e. are more likely serious fans. And of course here the same is true. I don’t like the movie, but I’m glad it is doing well at the box office (internationally). But if you search out Bond Facebook pages, Twitter users, Instagrams, you’ll find that most did not like it. My uncle Watched it and he simply refuses to believe Bond died. And he liked the film.

    Can you prove that?
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I think it’s absolutely hilarious that @slide_99 is virtually ignoring every other metric of audience voting but then points out the one with a minuscule user amount and is like “THERE! CALLED IT! THIS MOVIE IS A BUST!!”

    And he hasn’t even seen the goddamn film.

    =))

    People keep noting this bit of information yet keep getting outraged about it and reply to every post he makes, instead of ignoring him. That's why he keeps doing it. He's winning.

    I’m not outraged, I’m entertained!
  • Posts: 387
    Hmmm, I would say, anything on the internet doesn't matter.

    Reality checks out. The film is a winner.

    Internet naysayers are whiners.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 2,161
    Stamper wrote: »
    If someone gets offended by Bond dying, then they never got Fleming in the first place, didn't they?

    Let's not start that business; Who is a true fan? Who understands Fleming?

    Never ends well, and it inherently causes resentment and bad blood. It comes of as pretentious and doesn't take any of the subtleties into consideration.

    I am offended by Bond dying and I would like to have a conversation with anyone explaining to me how I do not understand Fleming, which has been a large part of my life for over 55 years.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 2,161
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hate the film all you want, but I'll never understand actively hoping for any installment of this series to bomb. I would've assumed we'd all want more Bond films.

    I've never cared either way. If one bombs, we'll get a (probably needed) adjustment. Fans caring about box office is a phenomena that coincides with the growth of the internet. Growing ups in the '60s and '70s, and even into the '80s, I never remember any film student or movie fan worrying about box office. If there was a record breaker, like JAWS or STAR WARS, that would get covered in entertainment news, but not much beyond that, maybe a special feature or update annually. It wasn't until the '90s that I saw the fan base basically doing the worrying for the studios.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Ultimately, only a very small percentage of audiences saw Fleming. Only fans can act like gatekeepers, and the films are so wildly diverse that means fans will always be divided to an extent.

    That’s why audiences win.
  • donnydracodonnydraco America
    Posts: 16
    donnydraco wrote: »
    I'm frankly surprised that it took EON 25 movies before going through with it.

    From how I understand it, 'timelines' are a relatively new cinematic thing. If they'd have done it at the end of, say, License to Kill, or A View to a Kill, the audience would just be confused.
    And even now, there's some people having trouble with the movies now being about a character called James Bond, rather than the character, James Bond. Me included.

    See, I don't think most audience members would have been confused at all. Did anyone really think Timothy Dalton's Bond battled Odd Job in the caverns of Fort Knox once upon a time? I highly doubt it.

    EON could have made the decision to kill off each Bond iteration at the end of his respective run, and the tradition would have eventually been embraced as sacrosanct. It sure beats the sight of Grandpa Roger bidding adieu by bonking a 25-year old girl in a shower while Q watches via mouse robot. Or Brosnan spewing out bad puns with Halle Berry as they're buried naked in conflict diamonds, while Moneypenny masturbates via VR.

    It's one thing to be disenchanted with the circumstances of Bond's death, or with the movie proper (again, I have a whole list of critiques of NTTD), but to suddenly feign outrage at the decision to kill a character who's been in 25(!) movies, and assayed by six actors...c'mon!
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited November 2021 Posts: 692
    If Craig's Bond dying isn't such a big deal, then why have the producers never done it before with any previous actor? Continuity aside, killing off the hero of a franchise is inherently dumb for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. Seinfeld said it best: "Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason."
  • donnydracodonnydraco America
    Posts: 16
    slide_99 wrote: »
    If Craig's Bond dying isn't such a big deal, then why have the producers never done it before with any previous actor? Continuity aside, killing off the hero of a franchise is inherently dumb for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. Seinfeld said it best: "Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason."

    To be blunt: Apart from the experimental Dalton duology, the franchise was creatively bankrupt from 1971 to 2002. (I love some of the Moores, but only as a dessert; there's nothing remotely nourishing about them.)

    It's not a surprise EON hadn't killed Bond, as they hadn't done anything interesting with the character once Tracy took a bullet to the head. It took the disaster of DAD, and a change in the winds of action cinema, for Brocolli and Wilson to at long last pursue dramatic storytelling possibilities.

    I may not care for NTTD, but I give the team kudos for doubling down on this course. I never want this series to revert back to Moore/Brosnan banality again.

  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    donnydraco wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    If Craig's Bond dying isn't such a big deal, then why have the producers never done it before with any previous actor? Continuity aside, killing off the hero of a franchise is inherently dumb for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. Seinfeld said it best: "Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason."

    To be blunt: Apart from the experimental Dalton duology, the franchise was creatively bankrupt from 1971 to 2002. (I love some of the Moores, but only as a dessert; there's nothing remotely nourishing about them.)

    It's not a surprise EON hadn't killed Bond, as they hadn't done anything interesting with the character once Tracy took a bullet to the head. It took the disaster of DAD, and a change in the winds of action cinema, for Brocolli and Wilson to at long last pursue dramatic storytelling possibilities.

    I may not care for NTTD, but I give the team kudos for doubling down on this course. I never want this series to revert back to Moore/Brosnan banality again.
    But ... DAD was hardly a "disaster" financially was it? And from my POV no less entertaining than many of the movies in that thirty year run ....
  • Feyador wrote: »
    But ... DAD was hardly a "disaster" financially was it? And from my POV no less entertaining than many of the movies in that thirty year run ....

    After he shaved off his beard the movie took a one way ride down the toilet for me...I walked out the cinema and didn't want to see another Brozza flick again....even if it did well at the time.

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 2,161
    Feyador wrote: »
    donnydraco wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    If Craig's Bond dying isn't such a big deal, then why have the producers never done it before with any previous actor? Continuity aside, killing off the hero of a franchise is inherently dumb for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. Seinfeld said it best: "Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason."

    To be blunt: Apart from the experimental Dalton duology, the franchise was creatively bankrupt from 1971 to 2002. (I love some of the Moores, but only as a dessert; there's nothing remotely nourishing about them.)

    It's not a surprise EON hadn't killed Bond, as they hadn't done anything interesting with the character once Tracy took a bullet to the head. It took the disaster of DAD, and a change in the winds of action cinema, for Brocolli and Wilson to at long last pursue dramatic storytelling possibilities.

    I may not care for NTTD, but I give the team kudos for doubling down on this course. I never want this series to revert back to Moore/Brosnan banality again.
    But ... DAD was hardly a "disaster" financially was it? And from my POV no less entertaining than many of the movies in that thirty year run ....

    There is much to enjoy, though the bad stuff is really bad (CGI dive, CGI parasurfing, Madonna cameo, Halle Berry, the quips in general, but that one goes for the entire Brosnan run). There is nothing there for me after the race with Zao, but some of those earlier scenes are absolutely great in my eyes (Bond tortured and about to face a firing squad, the sword fight, most of Cuba).
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 12,837
    Meta critic, Rotten maters, imdb, etc. Okay. But just look at general reactions on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and so on (where the vast majority of regular voters and Bond fans are). It’s fair to use the aforementioned ones that I spoke of, but if you want a big picture opinion scale, social media takes in a vastly larger and truer sample. People who have voted on Meta Critic, RT, Imdb, I.e. are more likely serious fans. And of course here the same is true. I don’t like the movie, but I’m glad it is doing well at the box office (internationally). But if you search out Bond Facebook pages, Twitter users, Instagrams, you’ll find that most did not like it. My uncle Watched it and he simply refuses to believe Bond died. And he liked the film.

    I’d be hesitant to take social media as representative of the public mood to be honest. If it was then we wouldn’t be stuck with Boris and co in power. I think those who don’t like it are probably more likely to want to vent online, and I remember reading that the majority of tweets come from a fairly small minority of accounts. And I think anyone who discusses films online like we are now is a minority to be honest, irregardless of the site. I’ve always loved doing that, but I don’t know anyone else who does.

    It’s fair to say the film has its detractors, and I’m not going to make any predictions about how it’ll be thought of in the future. But at the end of the day, I think if “most did not like it”, then it wouldn’t be making all this money. I know a good box office isn’t a sign of quality, but surely it’s a sign of popularity? It’s doing almost as well as Skyfall in the UK, even with the pandemic, and will probably finish as the third highest grossing film of all time over here. That’s mental. I didn’t expect it to do that well even pre 2020. If most people thought it was a dud then I think bad word of mouth would have caught on by now.
  • Posts: 2,161
    You can like it and still be greatly disappointed. It is not so clear cut for me. My non-Bondfan friends seem to like it for the most part, but don't see the point of the death. I've saw this before, so sorry to repeat, but I don't think the bulk American film fans ever caught onto the whole "arc", and are surprised and confused that these names keep popping up (Mr. White, Vesper).
  • Posts: 1,078
    Disappointed is the right word for me too. Particularly with the killing off of Bond. I'm not offended, confused or 'feigning outrage'. I just think it was disappointing, and a silly thing to do.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,790
    Birdleson wrote: »

    There is much to enjoy, though the bad stuff is really bad (CGI dive, CGI parasurfing, Madonna cameo, Halle Berry, the quips in general, but that one goes for the entire Brosnan run). There is nothing there for me after the race with Zao, but some of those earlier scenes are absolutely great in my eyes (Bond tortured and about to face a firing squad, the sword fight, most of Cuba).
    The VR scene with Moneypenny is the only absolutely STUPID thing in DAD for me- the rest of what most peeps dislike I can easily live with. Like I said, it's Brozz's DAF. I can handle silly Bond, I grew up with Moore! ;)
    *prepares screens & shields for Birdelson phaser fire*
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 692
    Nothing in DAD is an unforgivable as making Bond and Blofeld adoptive brothers. It just screams, "We can't derive any real drama from this premise, therefore we'll give the hero and villain an irrelevant past relationship that doesn't actually affect the plot in any way in order to trick the audience into thinking this movie has emotional resonance."
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Nothing in DAD is an unforgivable as making Bond and Blofeld adoptive brothers. It just screams, "We can't derive any real drama from this premise, therefore we'll give the hero and villain an irrelevant past relationship that doesn't actually affect the plot in any way in order to trick the audience into thinking this movie has emotional resonance."

    You should watch Spectre, you might like it!
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    The Moneypenny VR scene and the CGI tsunami parasurfing are probably the two most unforgivable abominations to ever appear in the franchise.
    One is a scene that is grossly disrespectful and ill judged towards a beloved character. And the other is an insult to our intelligence that beggars belief in its naffness. It’s executed terribly but the whole idea behind a ‘CGI stunt’ is moronic in the first place
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    And I say that as someone who actually likes DAD. It’s my go to Brosnan film
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