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You're not going with Echo's 'upbeat ending/triumphant death' line of thought then EDDIEVH?
I think if they'd have gone for the ambiguous/open ended finale of YOLT, I'd have liked it a lot better. It'd still be down the bottom of the list because of other reasons. But it would certainly have been more palatable.
Have to say, I've had a similar reaction. I can't even sit through the assault on the lab any more and I've lost patience with the dafter bits of Cuba, too. Mid-shootout drinking games and 'can I cut in', indeed...
I couldn't disagree more.
OHMSS: Teresa is dead, but Bond lives on to fight back against SPECTRE.
NTTD: Bond's family is safe, the world is safe, but Bond is dead. Because these films gravitate around Bond, his death means the end of his adventures, and the fantasy of the films running into the cold, hard reality of Bond's mortality.
NTTD is the end of Bond, that's why I find it much sadder.
They are not in the same league. A Bond girl dies at the end of one film, but 007 lives to fight another day, cue the upbeat funky James Bond theme when the end credits roll.
James Bond himself dies in NTTD, killing off the main character, and depriving him of the woman he loves and a daughter. Cue a very depressing song for the end credits.
James Bond gave the woman he loved, and his child, all the time in the world— the greatest gift he could have given them.
I find it a poignant and beautiful ending.
Not depressing.
I will say though, it does make me more interested in seeing what we get from Bond 26. While there certainly will be a 'reinvention' of the franchise, it feels like NTTD is something of a stepping stone to get to something much more polished/interesting.
I used to watch new films on DVD multiple times when I was in my late teens and early 20s. I don’t really do that much anymore. I rarely even go to see movies multiple times in theaters. Maybe a movie twice, but that would be it, and I’d have to love it.
However, when enough time has passed, I find myself watching them multiple times. SKYFALL is my 2nd favorite Bond film ever, but for awhile I didn’t have much desire to revisit it when it hit blu-ray. It was only years later that I would pop it in. Same thing with SPECTRE. Maybe NTTD’s time will come in a year or so when I feel like putting it on.
I'm thoroughly excited for the next era for this reason alone. The initial installment from any given actor usually ranks amongst my favorites and I'm eager for something a bit more stripped back and simplistic for this next film (hopefully, anyway). If anything, it should certainly be interesting and fresh.
Yes, the new Bond actor's first film tends to be very well received. It'll also be interesting seeing what elements of NTTD they go against and what they keep. It's often not a straightforward case of the next film being completely different, but of them retaining certain things (ie. LALD had much of DAF's lighter tone, while consciously reinventing the series. Same for certain elements of TLD after the Moore era. Heck, GE retained shades of darkness/elements of the personal that were evoked in LTK. Even CR kept the idea of Bond going rogue seen in DAD, while also having a few rather over the top action sequences).
I think we'll see a few strands from NTTD make their way into the next one. I can imagine them having another go at a villain with a more sympathetic revenge motive, or possibly they'll throw in a lot more Horror type elements into the mix that we kind of got in NTTD (ie. the opening in Norway, the killing of the SPECTRE agents in Cuba etc) in between what is essentially a more stripped back, lighter film.
I kind of have the same feeling with rewatching a lot of Bonds: FYEO for example I sometimes don't get beyond the ski chase because not much after that matches what went before for my money. So yeah, I can imagine turning off at Norway because I can't think of much in the way of good bits after that. I think I'd certainly skip the lab raid as per Venutius.
I do blame the director for not pulling it together and sharpening it up, and I think he just fails to add in the moments of pleasure and wit you want from a Bond.
Amazing how we as Bond films can see things so differently.
A real depressing ending would be if Madeleine and Mathilde were horribly murdered, and Bond, so depressed from seeing the outcome, takes his PPK and blows his brains out in full view. The villains get away with their scheme, and MI6 is left in shock witnessing the world coming to and end.
THAT would be depressing. A nihilistic end with no hope for the future.
Part of why NTTD can’t be seen as a depressing ending is that in spite of Bond’s sacrifice, he leaves the world knowing he left it in a better place. All his enemies are dead and his loved ones get to live a life of peace.
That's a fair post mate and I get your point, but I don't agree with NTTD not having depressing ending. In my mind, James Bond is dead therefore everything else is irrelevant. That's the most depressing ending you could have, bar none
The added problem with Bond's ultimate sacrifice is we're told later - in the same movie - that he isn't dead after all.
Imagine watching the Godfather and it saying at the end that Don Corleone will be back. Or 'stay tuned for more adventures of Thelma and Louise' after they'd driven off the cliff.
What a load of daftness.
Same. I wasn’t sure what to make of it at first to be honest, took a couple of viewings to settle, but I grew to love it and still do.
The movie isn’t telling you that Craig’s Bond isn’t dead. It’s telling you that Bond will return in a new iteration, separate from Craig’s films. Because the filmmakers actually believe audiences have the necessary comprehension skills to make that kind of distinction.
I think it could be seen that having one character in a single film die is less 'important' than killing off someone that's become one of the most successful and iconic screen characters, with over sixty years of movies behind them.
Anyway, like I say, he's not dead anyway. He'll come back in 'another universe'. Perhaps the James Webb Space Telescope will show us a picture of it later today?
Sure, they’re just Bond films. They’re not actually sacred
That's the nature of it. Especially with a film like NTTD.
For what it's worth I found the ending to be a downer. But I do understand what it was going for - Bond's now this sort of 'mythic' figure in Mathilde's eyes, a man who lives on through Madeline's stories to her. It's a bit like Logan in which the man himself is dead by the end, and was arguably not all that heroic in the last years of his life, but the kids who escape at the end have the comics that mythicise him in the same way. Arguably he lives up to that idea with his sacrifice at the end...
I mean, I think it was done better in Logan, but they're similar ideas I'd say.
Speak for yourself!
Yeah it's bizarre. OHMSS is definitely a sad ending, seems odd that it's even in doubt.
I know you don’t like it mate but at the end of the day this is how blockbuster films are now. I’d either embrace it or just stick to the first twenty, because they’re never going to go back to Cubby’s way of doing it again.
Whereas NTTD is on a different level altogether - killing off the main character. It doesn't get any more bleak that that, seeing Bond die.