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Coronavirus Discussion

BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
edited May 2020 in General Discussion Posts: 15,138
As the world is in the midst of the corona virus.
Please post all discussion here.

This is not a political thread and any or all political comments will be removed
«134567…98

Comments

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Ok it's great we now have our own thread. To start us off.... Tom Hanks and his wife have the virus they are down in Australia starting pre production on the Elvis biopic Hanks plays Colonel Tom Paker. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/tom-hanks-and-wife-rita-wilson-test-positive-for-coronavirus-2020-3?amp
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,343
    In Italy now everything is locked down except supermarkets and pharmacies for at least 15 days. It is even forbidden to take a walk without a solid reason (and u need a self-certification to do that). Such Draconian constrictions never happened in a democracy before.

    I live in Milano, within the Lombardy region which is right now the worst place on Earth speaking about the virus. Lombardy is the richest and most productive region in all Europe, with the best hospitals of the country... and our healthcare is basically collapsing. In some hospitals they started to choose which one has better chance to survive and the number of infected people in their forties is rapidly increasing.

    If the virus doesn’t slow down Italy will have more than a million infections within a month. So it’s really time to stay home. Hopefully other governments are working hard to prevent. Closing airports is not enough the virus is already in every country...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Excellent idea for a topic, @Benny! Also: makes perfect sense.

    By now, many of you have come to know me, hopefully, as someone who always tries to keep a positive outlook on things. Please don't put me in the "naive treehugger" section; I really don't belong there. Instead, I always try to
    • remain cool, and objectively look at hard facts;
    • avoid the deliberate "paniceering" that various media royally feed off;
    • maintain a high level of confidence in the real experts,
    the latter being precisely what most journalists, family members, friends of ours and colleagues are not.

    Obviously I'm not suggesting we just let things happen, don't take anything seriously and move on. Though we shall have to move on eventually, the next couple of weeks and months will present us with a frightening experience most of us have never had so far. For most of us, however, it'll end up a very protracted nightmare from which we'll eventually wake up, sweating and upset but otherwise undamaged. For a minor few among us, this will prove a painful episode in our lives, impossible to ever forget, leaving lasting scars.

    In that sense, Corona isn't so different from a terrorist attack, a plane crash, a flood, a vulcanic eruption. In all these cases, we feel powerless; we are worried that it can happen at any given moment and we'll either not see it coming or we'll need to take some very drastic measures to avoid it, if at all possible.

    Given the circumstances, we're also to consider a few positive things. For example:
    • These aren't medieval times. We have good sources of information about the virus, the pandemic spread of the virus, what experts say is wise and what they say is absolutely dangerous. The Internet keeps us informed. For the record: certain puddles of popular but otherwise blood-thirsty journalism are to be avoided at all times. Follow the trendlines, not the headlines.
    • A virus isn't some ghostly entity from another world. It's something that requires a host to survive. We can maximize our efforts to not allow others in our closest proximity and to always thoroughly wash our hands whenever we used doorknobs, keyboards, ... In fact, many of the guidelines, rules and, in fact, orders given to us today, including no flying to and from certain countries, may seem unusual and frightening to some, but are just there to simply keep us from too much direct contact with potentially infected people. Introverted people like myself, who avoid close physical contact even in the best of times, can tell you that it's not so hard a thing to do. Still, even if you are quarantined at home, the Internet allows you to stay connected, to stay in the loop, to order things, to learn things and to say hi to your friends. Again, these are not medieval times.
    • Being infected doesn't mean that you'll die. In fact, many people will probably never even notice it apart from maybe having a "bad day". Even more in fact, at this point over half of the registered infected have already been found cured again! The mortality rates, even for the higher-risk population, are still very low as compared to other epidemics from the past. High-calory diets, insufficient physical excercising and bad habits such as smoking and drinking, still cause a lot more deaths every day. These deaths simply seem less frightening because you feel like you're in control, it's your own choice and you don't infect others. I am merely pointing out that losing a friend or a family member over bad cholesterol or the side-effects of smoking and drinking is something that many of us only rarely ever get to experience, and yet, the mortality rates are higher in that department than with corona.
    • Lastly, and most importantly, there is an end to all of this. As with every viral outbreak, the graph will "slope up" and then stagnate and then fall again. We may not get there for another couple of weeks or so, but eventually, that's how it will be. This is not something that will haunt us without interruption till the end of times.

    Again, I am taking this seriously; I am not urging to just stop caring and pretend nothing's going on. But I think we would do well to remain calm, follow the proper guidelines and instructions, avoid sensational media and avoid sensational media and, at all cost, avoid sensational media!
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    WHO says the virus is not excepted to survive outside body fluids for long. Basically all what there is to do is written on the website of WHO, or ECDC.




    Scaramanga1974 wrote: »
    I bet we get to November and it gets moved again. Coronaviris ain't going away soon. Or is it all fake news as a certain orange tanned buffoon likes to keep telling us.
    According to the European Centre for Desease Prevention and Control, the number of new cases in China went down massively in the last ten days. You can see the chart here:

    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

    Now I know this doesn´t garuantee anything. We don´t know if there will be more waves coming up later. But it shows at least for now that there is no continuing increase in new cases in one place.

    The numbers are to be interpreted with care, because for instance the case definition was altered twice, as you can see from the description. But a decrease from 2000 per day to around 200 is probably not merely down to number inaccuracies. Unless the Chinese stopped counting.

    It would of course be helpful to find out why the infection seems so much more severe in Italy than in other European countries. I haven´t found any information regarding this yet.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    The Chinese figures seem to be unchanged for over a week. Stopped reporting I guess.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    boldfinger wrote: »
    It would of course be helpful to find out why the infection seems so much more severe in Italy than in other European countries. I haven´t found any information regarding this yet.

    Presumably, it is because of a superspreader who wasn't immediately identified that Italy got into such trouble. Some people carry the virus but show few of the symptoms if any at all.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Excellent idea for a topic, @Benny! Also: makes perfect sense.

    By now, many of you have come to know me, hopefully, as someone who always tries to keep a positive outlook on things. Please don't put me in the "naive treehugger" section; I really don't belong there. Instead, I always try to
    • remain cool, and objectively look at hard facts;
    • avoid the deliberate "paniceering" that various media royally feed off;
    • maintain a high level of confidence in the real experts,
    the latter being precisely what most journalists, family members, friends of ours and colleagues are not.

    Obviously I'm not suggesting we just let things happen, don't take anything seriously and move on. Though we shall have to move on eventually, the next couple of weeks and months will present us with a frightening experience most of us have never had so far. For most of us, however, it'll end up a very protracted nightmare from which we'll eventually wake up, sweating and upset but otherwise undamaged. For a minor few among us, this will prove a painful episode in our lives, impossible to ever forget, leaving lasting scars.

    In that sense, Corona isn't so different from a terrorist attack, a plane crash, a flood, a vulcanic eruption. In all these cases, we feel powerless; we are worried that it can happen at any given moment and we'll either not see it coming or we'll need to take some very drastic measures to avoid it, if at all possible.

    Given the circumstances, we're also to consider a few positive things. For example:
    • These aren't medieval times. We have good sources of information about the virus, the pandemic spread of the virus, what experts say is wise and what they say is absolutely dangerous. The Internet keeps us informed. For the record: certain puddles of popular but otherwise blood-thirsty journalism are to be avoided at all times. Follow the trendlines, not the headlines.
    • A virus isn't some ghostly entity from another world. It's something that requires a host to survive. We can maximize our efforts to not allow others in our closest proximity and to always thoroughly wash our hands whenever we used doorknobs, keyboards, ... In fact, many of the guidelines, rules and, in fact, orders given to us today, including no flying to and from certain countries, may seem unusual and frightening to some, but are just there to simply keep us from too much direct contact with potentially infected people. Introverted people like myself, who avoid close physical contact even in the best of times, can tell you that it's not so hard a thing to do. Still, even if you are quarantined at home, the Internet allows you to stay connected, to stay in the loop, to order things, to learn things and to say hi to your friends. Again, these are not medieval times.
    • Being infected doesn't mean that you'll die. In fact, many people will probably never even notice it apart from maybe having a "bad day". Even more in fact, at this point over half of the registered infected have already been found cured again! The mortality rates, even for the higher-risk population, are still very low as compared to other epidemics from the past. High-calory diets, insufficient physical excercising and bad habits such as smoking and drinking, still cause a lot more deaths every day. These deaths simply seem less frightening because you feel like you're in control, it's your own choice and you don't infect others. I am merely pointing out that losing a friend or a family member over bad cholesterol or the side-effects of smoking and drinking is something that many of us only rarely ever get to experience, and yet, the mortality rates are higher in that department than with corona.
    • Lastly, and most importantly, there is an end to all of this. As with every viral outbreak, the graph will "slope up" and then stagnate and then fall again. We may not get there for another couple of weeks or so, but eventually, that's how it will be. This is not something that will haunt us without interruption till the end of times.

    Again, I am taking this seriously; I am not urging to just stop caring and pretend nothing's going on. But I think we would do well to remain calm, follow the proper guidelines and instructions, avoid sensational media and avoid sensational media and, at all cost, avoid sensational media!

    @DarthDimi it was actually my idea and I suggested it to @Benny
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Correct! Anyway, let’s face the fact COVID19 is not just a flu like it seemed weeks ago. Take precautions.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    NBA has temporarily canceled the season after one of their players has been "pre-diagnosed; other major sports organization weigh options.

    Tom Hanks and his wife.

    No travel to Europe for 30 days.

    In my city, office towers are half empty. Hotels and restaurants are suffering.

    Markets are tumbling.

    I'm optimistic about a vaccination for the Corona Virus; my fear is the hit industries will take around the world until we get there.

  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 3,126
    matt_u wrote: »
    Correct! Anyway, let’s face the fact COVID19 is not just a flu like it seemed weeks ago. Take precautions.
    Its ten times worse then the flu according to the top u.s. expert and the NCAA men's basketball tournament one of the biggest events of the year in America is banning fans from all games


  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Correct! Anyway, let’s face the fact COVID19 is not just a flu like it seemed weeks ago. Take precautions.
    Its ten times worse then the flu and the NCAA men's basketball tournament one of the biggest events of the year in America is banning fans from all games



    I know man where I live it’s forbidden even to have a walk without a precise reason (like buying food/medicines).
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,767
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    It would of course be helpful to find out why the infection seems so much more severe in Italy than in other European countries. I haven´t found any information regarding this yet.

    Presumably, it is because of a superspreader who wasn't immediately identified that Italy got into such trouble. Some people carry the virus but show few of the symptoms if any at all.
    Could be. Still, there´s the comparatively high letality in Italy.


    matt_u wrote: »
    Correct! Anyway, let’s face the fact COVID19 is not just a flu like it seemed weeks ago. Take precautions.
    It was never reported as just some kind of flu.
    What´s important to notice is that it seems to have a very wide spectrum. Comparatively many people die in connection with it (as far as is known mostly not from the Virus alone, but from a combination of sicknesses), yet at the same time in many countries 80% seem to have little to no symptoms.
    So it seems imperative to know as much about it in an objective way as possible.



    peter wrote: »
    NBA has temporarily canceled the season after one of their players has been "pre-diagnosed; other major sports organization weigh options.

    Tom Hanks and his wife.

    No travel to Europe for 30 days.

    In my city, office towers are half empty. Hotels and restaurants are suffering.

    Markets are tumbling.

    I'm optimistic about a vaccination for the Corona Virus; my fear is the hit industries will take around the world until we get there.
    Not trying to sound pessimistic, but is there any working vaccine for SARS (which is also a Corona virus)?
    So the question seems, aren´t there any other ways to come out as healthy as possible? For instance, it is widely known that many food ingredients harm the immune system, for instance industrial sugar, or transfats. And how many people do eat fresh and clean fruits and vegetables every day? How many people have a healthy work-life ballance?
    There´s lots that should be done now to let that amount of immune system that everyone naturally has work freely.



    007Blofeld wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Correct! Anyway, let’s face the fact COVID19 is not just a flu like it seemed weeks ago. Take precautions.
    Its ten times worse then the flu according to the top u.s. expert and the NCAA men's basketball tournament one of the biggest events of the year in America is banning fans from all games
    The thing is, noone can say how bad it is. I don´t want to downplay the danger, but to claim it´s ten times worse than the flu IMO disqualifies the speaker from being the top expert, unless he said that in a defined context that you didn´t quote.
    We have to be careful, no doubt. But with so many unreliable numbers floating around, I find it irresponsible to spread absolute claims. And when I say unreliable numbers, I mean official worldwide institutions like WHO or ECDC, who on their respective pages explain openly what numbers are relative and why.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    matt_u wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Correct! Anyway, let’s face the fact COVID19 is not just a flu like it seemed weeks ago. Take precautions.
    Its ten times worse then the flu and the NCAA men's basketball tournament one of the biggest events of the year in America is banning fans from all games



    I know man where I live it’s forbidden even to have a walk without a precise reason (like buying food/medicines).

    That's terrible. I hope you don't run out.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    boldfinger wrote: »
    It was never reported as just some kind of flu.
    What´s important to notice is that it seems to have a very wide spectrum. Comparatively many people die in connection with it (as far as is known mostly not from the Virus alone, but from a combination of sicknesses), yet at the same time in many countries 80% seem to have little to no symptoms.
    So it seems imperative to know as much about it in an objective way as possible.

    Yeah you’re right. I was speaking about the general perception of the people. All the Western world underestimated the virus and there are lot of countries who are keeping to underestimate it, even after what started in Italy a couple weeks ago.

  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,756
    701 confirmed cases here in Norway. Schools, kinder gardens etc. are now being closed.
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 1,347
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    701 confirmed cases here in Norway. Schools, kinder gardens etc. are now being closed.
    About the same for your neighbors, Tor. 620 in Sweden (but can’t really trust numbers anymore since they stopped testing people in Stockholm who aren’t hospitalized).
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited March 2020 Posts: 17,756
    DiscoVolante wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    701 confirmed cases here in Norway. Schools, kinder gardens etc. are now being closed.
    About the same for your neighbors, Tor. 620 in Sweden (but can’t really trust numbers anymore since they stopped testing people in Stockholm who aren’t hospitalized).

    Just read those numbers in an expressen.se article. Looks like Denmark reports similar numbers as well (615 according to bt.dk).
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    All schools and universities, as well as related facilities, closed here in Ireland. All public gatherings above 100 are to cease. Public transport still going but everyone advised to work from home.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    @DarthDimi it was actually my idea and I suggested it to @Benny

    Sorry, mate. I didn't know that. :)
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,994
    There have been a few things that have puzzled me about that crisis, and more precisely about the various responses from governments to this crisis. Case in point : the president of the United States has decided to suspend all travel from and to Europe. Okay, can't argue with that. Except that he doesn't target the whole of Europe, but only the Shengen area. You can still travel without much difficulty from the UK to the US, for example. And you can travel easily from the Shengen Area to the UK. What's to keep an infected person to travel from, say, Paris, to the UK and infect one, or more, people who then travel to the US ?

    Same about the cancellation of events. In France, not two weeks ago, all events with 5000 or more spectators were cancelled. Why 5000 ? Wouldn't events with 4999 spectators be as Dangerous ? Meanwhile, I could attend a concert in the Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff, which seats 5000 people. I would have thought that the same crisis would elicit the same responses all over the world, but apparently not. I Don't understand, really.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    The fact that sports and various other entertainments worldwide are being cancelled or postponed due to the virus, just goes to show that the virus has started taking over our daily lives and the scary part is that this is probably just the beginning. It doesn't look like the situation is getting any better.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,756
    Euro's likely to be postponed until next year.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Everything will be postponed. April will be far worse for basically every country except China, Japan, South Korea and maybe, Italy as well. As long as there’s not a vaccine, our lives won’t be the same.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    267 confirmed cases here in Belgium. I was going to have a drink with some friends tomorrow, but one of them is afraid to go out.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,756
    matt_u wrote: »
    Everything will be postponed. April will be far worse for basically every country except China, Japan, South Korea and maybe, Italy as well. As long as there’s not a vaccine, our lives won’t be the same.

    Indeed. Should just be a matter of time for events that are yet to confirm a cancelation or postponement.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    matt_u wrote: »
    Everything will be postponed. April will be far worse for basically every country except China, Japan, South Korea and maybe, Italy as well. As long as there’s not a vaccine, our lives won’t be the same.

    That depends, actually. A lovely Spring or early Summer might severely hurt this virus. Sunlight and heat could slow it down, bringing us some relief. If April is kind to us--and I have no means to predict that it will be--then with an ounce of luck, we may leave the worst behind us in March. Fall may bring it back... but then at least, we might be better prepared.

    Yes, there's a lot of "might" and "could" and "if" here; I haven't the tools to make substantial predictions. However, it has been claimed by experts that having been able to avoid the virus in Europe and the USA through most of the Winter will work to our advantage. While the virus seems to be spreading quite fast, it could have been a lot worse if the bloody thing had been flown over from China in December or early January. It's reasonable to assume that weather conditions will gradually improve over the next few months. With it, the virus may find it tougher to spread so rapidly. It's not like the Sun will fry the son-of-a-bug, but we could go back to more feasible containment programs, placing the ball in our camp for once.

    I don't want to spread false hope of any kind, but this sounds legit to me.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    When this whole thing started, I had hoped that the worse would be over by the end of March – which would have allowed NTTD to open on time in the US (April 10th). However, while I still hope that the worse may only last for a few weeks, it may be as late as May before things get back to “normal.” And that is conditional on taking widespread preventative steps now.

    Just today, here in the US, for example, in addition to the NBA, which suspended operations last night (March 11th), it appears that the National Hockey League (NHL) and Major League Baseball are on the verge of following suit.

    Keep safe everyone!
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited March 2020 Posts: 17,756

    :-?
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,341
    No one knows for sure when public life goes back to normal. May is as good a guess as July/August, when the Olympic games are supposed to start. I doubt they will, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,187
    The remaining NHL season has been suspended.
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