What if Goldeneye had an amazing score?

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    mtm wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    That whistle ruined one of the most stylish stunts in film & Bond history, but then again it's a Roger Moore Bond film, Maybe Barry initially felt it suited Moore's Pacifist take on the role....would the whistle work in a Sean Connery Bond film?....Hardly.

    I think Barry always felt Moore's take on the role was lighter and comical, that's why Barry didn't use the Guitar riff for Moore's Bond themes. Of course, Barry didn't use the Guitar riff for Dalton, but he infused electronic sounds in Dalton's Bond theme to showcase a different Bond.

    I think he'd just moved on from that style, I doubt there was any particular reason for it.

    After LALD I think I'm right in saying that a guitar only appears in gunbarrel sequences.. four more times?

    As far as John Barry scores go, there’s never a guitar featured during the Bond theme ever again after DAF. Only non-Barry composers would bring back the guitar in the theme from that point on. It was part of Barry moving away from the Kentonesque brass/jazzy sound of the earlier films for a more classical symphonic sound. In the 1995 Moviola II soundtrack he performs all the old Bond tunes in the style he had adopted from the 70s and onward. No guitars in the Bond theme. No moog synthesizers in OHMSS. Etc.






  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    So Lazenby is the only Bond not to get a twangy guitar gunbarrel! :)

    Yeah, I think I read somewhere that Barry Brought back the Guitar riff in the Gunbarrel for DAF because, Connery was back....Maybe Barry believes it suits Connery more.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I'm trying to think of any other composer that worked on 11 (or more) installments in a franchise. The closest is John Williams with 9 Star Wars films under his belt, and even his sound slightly changed over the years in accordance to where his sensibilities lied at the time of writing. It's bound to happen. I imagine if they were told to stick to the same style and approach as their first soundtracks they would have been bored to death.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I'm trying to think of any other composer that worked on 11 (or more) installments in a franchise. The closest is John Williams with 9 Star Wars films under his belt, and even his sound slightly changed over the years in accordance to where his sensibilities lied at the time of writing. It's bound to happen. I imagine if they were told to stick to the same style and approach as their first soundtracks they would have been bored to death.

    Sure, am all for Evolution, that's why we have Serra's score....I just think Barry felt Connery's Bond deserved the Electric Guitar more...maybe probably something about him being the first Bond, I don't really know though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of any other composer that worked on 11 (or more) installments in a franchise. The closest is John Williams with 9 Star Wars films under his belt, and even his sound slightly changed over the years in accordance to where his sensibilities lied at the time of writing. It's bound to happen. I imagine if they were told to stick to the same style and approach as their first soundtracks they would have been bored to death.

    Sure, am all for Evolution, that's why we have Serra's score....I just think Barry felt Connery's Bond deserved the Electric Guitar more...maybe probably something about him being the first Bond, I don't really know though.

    Given that DAF was an attempt by the filmmakers to recapture the tone and style of GF, it makes sense to bring back the guitar in order to invoke what the filmmakers wanted.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of any other composer that worked on 11 (or more) installments in a franchise. The closest is John Williams with 9 Star Wars films under his belt, and even his sound slightly changed over the years in accordance to where his sensibilities lied at the time of writing. It's bound to happen. I imagine if they were told to stick to the same style and approach as their first soundtracks they would have been bored to death.

    Sure, am all for Evolution, that's why we have Serra's score....I just think Barry felt Connery's Bond deserved the Electric Guitar more...maybe probably something about him being the first Bond, I don't really know though.

    Given that DAF was an attempt by the filmmakers to recapture the tone and style of GF, it makes sense to bring back the guitar in order to invoke what the filmmakers wanted.

    Yeah, that's also a fair point....could well be.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    You know, with all this talk about Serra, I couldn't help myself; I just rewatched THE 5TH ELEMENT. It's a pretty weird film and I know that it has dated poorly. But I was a young lad and I loved that ridiculous Besson film. Part of the reason? Serra's delicious score. Along with Nikita, Léon, GE and Le Grand Blue, I keep his score for The 5th Element in heavy rotation.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    You know, with all this talk about Serra, I couldn't help myself; I just rewatched THE 5TH ELEMENT. It's a pretty weird film and I know that it has dated poorly. But I was a young lad and I loved that ridiculous Besson film. Part of the reason? Serra's delicious score. Along with Nikita, Léon, GE and Le Grand Blue, I keep his score for The 5th Element in heavy rotation.

    True. Great Scores, I love them all. Serra is magnificent...a rare gem. Probably because his type of composing is very rare. His scores might not be universally loved, or deemed Oscar-Worthy, but am sure we don't mind, as they're all Stellar Scores. I know it's impossible and might never happen....but I would like to hear another Serra Bond Score....I would really love that, an impossible wish though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 16,428
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.

    It is a rare moment of boldness in a run of films that do rather tend to rely on reheating what went before. Brosnan even said in that GoldenEye rewatch thing that he was aiming somewhere between Connery and Roger with his performance.

    Although, and I know we're all supposed to be terribly down on Purvis & Wade and how awful they apparently are, but at the time TWINE featuring an injured Bond did genuinely feel like a bit of a game-changer. And then they got M captured too.
    And in the next one Bond actually gets captured and locked up for many months. They were trying to push it places it hadn't been before, even if tonally it didn't really get there.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Purvis & Wade have definitely tried finding ways of pushing the envelope since they came in, which is probably why EON has kept them around besides being scholars of Fleming.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.

    Yeah, I think I can see where you're coming from. I think you not wanting Serra back, is because you feel he might not replicate GE's 90s magic. But who knows?....It's Serra after all, I always expect a blatantly good score from him.

    Yeah, it would have been interesting to see what Serra would have done with Brosnan's Era....but I love Arnold as well, he was a good replacement. I know Serra Creatively, is more Enigmatic and Unconventional, and ends up producing great ethereal scores...but I also love Arnold's work. Serra and Arnold are good.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.

    Yeah, I think I can see where you're coming from. I think you not wanting Serra back, is because you feel he might not replicate GE's 90s magic.

    Nah. What I would have liked was the films to have an ongoing rotation of new composers, rather than a single regular composer.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.

    Yeah, I think I can see where you're coming from. I think you not wanting Serra back, is because you feel he might not replicate GE's 90s magic.

    Nah. What I would have liked was the films to have an ongoing rotation of new composers, rather than a single regular composer.

    Yeah, not a bad idea. Makes for a refreshing score with each entry....only at times, not all the Composers might get the Scores right. Explains why franchises stick to a particular Composer, just for safety until they find another suitable Composer who understands the sound of the franchise, even if he's reinventing it.
  • Posts: 97
    What if TND, TWINE, DAD, CR and QOS had amazing scores?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The_Return wrote: »
    What if TND, TWINE, DAD, CR and QOS had amazing scores?

    ing]
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    The_Return wrote: »
    What if TND, TWINE, DAD, CR and QOS had amazing scores?

    ing]

    I think Arnold produced great scores for both TND and QOS, post-1990 only Serra did better with GE.
    Together, they are my three favourite Bond scores of the "modern 007 era" .
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Arnold found his true strength in CR and QOS IMO. Perhaps because he was forced to rethink his music, what with the Bond theme being more or less absent and all, he gave us a pretty solid score.

    I used to love TND as a kid but ultimately decided it should rank more in the middle on my Bond score list. It has moments of brilliance but also a lot of "autch, that sound just pierced my eardrums"--uh--well, noise essentially. Sometimes, Arnold seems to be losing complete control of his orchestra and the horns or whatever are no longer hitting notes but the highest and loudest screams they can hit.

    Serra's score never does that. Say what you want, but with him at least, it wasn't about showing off the full decibel power of an orchestra.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247

    I've always found FIVE MILLENIA LATER from THE FIFTH ELEMENT to be very Bondian with a modern twist....It's very Obvious, I always imagine Bond Spying, or in a Casino or in Romantic mode with a Bond girl whenever I listen to it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    It’s actually been a very long time since I’ve given Serra’s The Fifth Element, and damn does it hold up. It’s too bad he’ll only exclusively work for Besson, because he would really elevate plenty of other movies out there. But I suppose from experiences like GE, he isn’t too comfortable with going outside Besson’s circle anymore. Oh well.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    It’s actually been a very long time since I’ve given Serra’s The Fifth Element, and damn does it hold up. It’s too bad he’ll only exclusively work for Besson, because he would really elevate plenty of other movies out there. But I suppose from experiences like GE, he isn’t too comfortable with going outside Besson’s circle anymore. Oh well.

    Exactly....Since he had GE's experience in his youth, am sure it left an indelible mark on him and one he doesn't like. It appears Besson understands him more, and Besson being French too also helps. I wish he were a frequent Hollywood Composer too, coz truly many films would have benefitted from his ingenuity.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.

    Wow.I think what you just wrote there belongs in the '' Controversial opinions '' thread!

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Arnold found his true strength in CR and QOS IMO. Perhaps because he was forced to rethink his music, what with the Bond theme being more or less absent and all, he gave us a pretty solid score.

    I used to love TND as a kid but ultimately decided it should rank more in the middle on my Bond score list. It has moments of brilliance but also a lot of "autch, that sound just pierced my eardrums"--uh--well, noise essentially. Sometimes, Arnold seems to be losing complete control of his orchestra and the horns or whatever are no longer hitting notes but the highest and loudest screams they can hit.

    Serra's score never does that. Say what you want, but with him at least, it wasn't about showing off the full decibel power of an orchestra.

    I agree, though I think TWINE/DAD/CR are more guilty of that uncontrolled, chaotic action scene bombast than TND or QOS.

    True, GE certainly never does that. It's a consistent, unique, atmospherical and well-balanced score. It's my favourite aspect of the film and one of my very favourite soundtracks.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Not sure if I would want Serra back, but it would have been interesting to see him approach the other Brosnan films. Part of why TND/TWINE/DAD feels so much lesser to me is because they don't have scores nearly elevating as Serra's.

    Wow.I think what you just wrote there belongs in the '' Controversial opinions '' thread!

    giphy_1.gif
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    jobo wrote: »
    Was that particular scene Serra's work though? I read somewhere that while Serra was responsible for the techno music tracks, John Altman and David Arch provided most of the more traditional orchestral cues. Does anyone know more accurately?

    I'm fairly certain Serra composed the music for the casino scene. I wasn't there when he did it, obviously, but there are loads of moments in the Léon score that resemble this casino scene music in terms of orchestration, tempo and even melody. So yes, I honestly believe that Serra wrote that. Same with other orchestral cues. The only bits in GE that so clearly aren't Serra are the moments in the archive and the subsequent "pleasant drive through St. Petersburg." If Altman and Arch did anything else besides this, anything at all, they were simply cloning Serra's style from Léon, which would be a little strange, no? :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    And given the amount of time they had to rescore, that sequence in St. Petersburg was really all they could hope to get done. Using the Bond theme as a crutch certainly helped as they just had to simply repeat the familiar notes, add in a little unique flourishes, then repeat the Bond theme again. If they were required to create a new piece without utilizing the Bond theme, they probably wouldn't have been able to do anything on time.
  • edited June 2020 Posts: 7,507
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Was that particular scene Serra's work though? I read somewhere that while Serra was responsible for the techno music tracks, John Altman and David Arch provided most of the more traditional orchestral cues. Does anyone know more accurately?

    I'm fairly certain Serra composed the music for the casino scene. I wasn't there when he did it, obviously, but there are loads of moments in the Léon score that resemble this casino scene music in terms of orchestration, tempo and even melody. So yes, I honestly believe that Serra wrote that. Same with other orchestral cues. The only bits in GE that so clearly aren't Serra are the moments in the archive and the subsequent "pleasant drive through St. Petersburg." If Altman and Arch did anything else besides this, anything at all, they were simply cloning Serra's style from Léon, which would be a little strange, no? :)

    I don't doubt that at all. My question came from a point of genuin curiosity. I don't remember which sources they are, but I have been reading on the internet that Altman and Arch were responsible for some, or even "several", of the orchestral cues. With my limited knowledge of Serra and his style, I had no way of knowing to which extent that was true or not.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,428
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Was that particular scene Serra's work though? I read somewhere that while Serra was responsible for the techno music tracks, John Altman and David Arch provided most of the more traditional orchestral cues. Does anyone know more accurately?

    I'm fairly certain Serra composed the music for the casino scene. I wasn't there when he did it, obviously, but there are loads of moments in the Léon score that resemble this casino scene music in terms of orchestration, tempo and even melody. So yes, I honestly believe that Serra wrote that. Same with other orchestral cues. The only bits in GE that so clearly aren't Serra are the moments in the archive and the subsequent "pleasant drive through St. Petersburg." If Altman and Arch did anything else besides this, anything at all, they were simply cloning Serra's style from Léon, which would be a little strange, no? :)

    Yeah I don't pretend to have any further knowledge, but the casino sequence seems more sophisticated than the tank chase sequence to me. Plus when it fades out to the more sinister notes (when Pierce is hopping up the steps to look at the yacht) it segues into more familiar Serra territory.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247

    SYNCHRONISED INSTANT, one of my favourite tracks from LE GRAND BLEU....Elegant Music from Serra.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    SYNCHRONISED INSTANT, one of my favourite tracks from LE GRAND BLEU....Elegant Music from Serra.

    Probably my favourite soundtrack album of all time.
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