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NTTD & Corona

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  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Bond can move and see who blinks first
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Bond can move and see who blinks first

    It's happened before. ROGUE NATION had its original date moved up to July in order to avoid competition with SPECTRE. At least since 2006, Craig's run has overtaken the M:I films at the box office. So if you have NTTD and M:I-7 face off at the box office, chances are Bond will prevail.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 395
    I think Fallout is best MI film.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,927
    I can't back it up, but even the first MI film I thought may have been scheduled for fall 1995 and moved back to summer '96 to avoid competing with GE.

    I don't know how that would've worked out box office-wise back then, but I'm sure the first MI was a massive hit, one of the biggest of that year along with Independence Day and Twister, and actually made more domestically than GE did on initial release.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    MGM is selling... it could get picked up by someone tied to streaming platform.

    There’s no way they’re going to push to Nov with MI7. They can push to late summer/early Fall just as easily.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I can't back it up, but even the first MI film I thought may have been scheduled for fall 1995 and moved back to summer '96 to avoid competing with GE.

    I don't know how that would've worked out box office-wise back then, but I'm sure the first MI was a massive hit, one of the biggest of that year along with Independence Day and Twister, and actually made more domestically than GE did on initial release.

    The first two films were bigger than any of the Brosnan films at the time they came out. Then when Craig took over things switched, with CR being a bigger hit than M:I-3 and so on.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    edited December 2020 Posts: 234
    I can feel the pain both as a fan and for the marketing team (I run a film festival and I'm in a similar boat). That said - can't see any point of moving to Nov 2021 personally - especially if they are looking to capitalize on the western/european/US market. The simple fact is there is no going back "like for like" after this and the vaccine will take some time to roll out (and it won't fix everything!). November is cold month - so it is likely another wave might be hitting by then (bear in mind the vaccine does not stop the actual spread of the virus - it only helps your body's response), and the virus seems to thrive more under cold conditions + it's harder to diagnose during the cold/flu season. The viable options are April (with streaming), move to Summer or kick into 2022. If they move to a summer month - hopefully better weather + increased vaccination will reduce the transmission rate (might not be as dramatically as we'd like however) - and you would still need to get people to head to the cinema (which is tricky). I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become. I hope they make Bond 26 a lot leaner so it's got a better chance of turning in a profit, the budget for NTTD seems ridiculously bloated (around $250M - before marketing costs?). They should also reevaluate their traditional distribution model - it's evolving.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2020 Posts: 4,343
    Until theaters won’t work with a 100% capacity across all the big markets I believe they won’t release NTTD. If streaming is not even an option anymore for them, the only way is delaying again. I don’t think people will lose interest if NTTD keeps delaying, especially because now most of the people has better things to do. Once everybody will feel comfortable sitting in a crowded theater again the excitement for a global event like the last Craig 007 film will spread.
    Having said that, if their target is to smash the box office looking for numbers in the range of the last two, 2021 feels too early to me... the only Bond film that really bombed in the last 35 years came out in Summer and I don’t know if they’re comfortable with this idea... November is a cold month and there’s already M:I...
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    This is becoming a joke. Just push it to 2024 already if they are so locked on theatre release only.
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    Why do some people think it's a joke? There should be no shame in moving the release date however many times it has to be done considering all the factors at play. If April is too risky, why not aim for July/August? If that's still risky, then November is the logical next bet. The distributors are not Nostradamus.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    Why do some people think it's a joke?

    I have the answer: Fan entitlement. It's just petty.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,022
    Meanwhile, in France, 2020 has known a drop of 70 % in th attendance in movie theaters. Well, not so much a drop as a crash dive, I say. But really, with movie theaters being "non-essential", what's to expect, right ?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Gerard wrote: »
    Meanwhile, in France, 2020 has known a drop of 70 % in th attendance in movie theaters. Well, not so much a drop as a crash dive, I say. But really, with movie theaters being "non-essential", what's to expect, right ?

    90% drop in Italy.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    edited December 2020 Posts: 1,394
    I think there is so much good will built up over the last couple of M:I films that i think the latest has a good chance of beating NTTD the box office.Spectre was a divisive movie wheras Rogue Nation and Fallout were very,very well received by critcs,fans,and the general audience.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2020 Posts: 4,343
    In a world without Covid I’m pretty confident Bond would’ve gross more. NTTD was predicted to fall inbetween SF and SP numbers, likely hitting the one billion mark. I don’t see an M:I film being able to hit such a milestone, even tho the gap now is pretty close. In a post pandemic scenario everything’s possible but a fair comparison could be made only if they both come out very close to each other.
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    End of May / early June would seem to me to make sense in a situation with only bad answers. Lighter evenings, warmer temperatures, before summer holidays etc. Easter is statically more likely to snow in Britain than Christmas so I don’t know what the thinking is there...!
  • Jan1985Jan1985
    Posts: 625
    Satorious wrote: »
    I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become.

    I don't think so.
    99% of movie goers (outside the Bond-Fan-Community) don't care about when a film had its last day of shooting, how long it has been since the film was finished etc.

    Think about it: almost EVERY movie that comes out in 2021 or even 2022 had wrapped filming BEFORE Bond.
    The time span from the last day of filming to the release date with movies like Top Gun, West Side Story, upcoming Marvel films, and almost every big release in 2021 is longer than with NTTD.
    So will people have lost interest in ALL those films, just because the pictures they get to see on screen were filmed in 2019 or even 2018?
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,927
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become.

    I don't think so.
    99% of movie goers (outside the Bond-Fan-Community) don't care about when a film had its last day of shooting, how long it has been since the film was finished etc.

    Think about it: almost EVERY movie that comes out in 2021 or even 2022 had wrapped filming BEFORE Bond.
    The time span from the last day of filming to the release date with movies like Top Gun, West Side Story, upcoming Marvel films, and almost every big release in 2021 is longer than with NTTD.
    So will people have lost interest in ALL those films, just because the pictures they get to see on screen were filmed in 2019 or even 2018?

    Agreed. I don't understand this attitude. MakeshiftPython touched on it above as fan entitlement as part of it, and we're conditioned to getting what we want when we want it and many don't know how to deal with it now that we've been facing it. It's been tough for everybody.

    But when things do get back to normal, it will likely be more exciting knowing what will be awaiting. It reminds me of a situation that happened in France post WWII when they finally go to see all the films that had been produced in the U.S. over the years and led to huge interest in the form and the French New Wave.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 234
    You are assuming everything goes back to normal - personally I can't see this happening for some time (years rather than months) and I say this as a cinephile. The pandemic has changed general audience viewing habits - initially out of safety, but now out of convenience also. Cinemas feel very niche at the moment - tentpoles are going to have to get a lot more creative in-order to earn their money back (and this is unlikely to be solely from theatrical screenings). I guess we'll see what happens next - but I think it is going to struggle to live up to expectations ala Tenet/WW84.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,386
    Satorious wrote: »
    I can feel the pain both as a fan and for the marketing team (I run a film festival and I'm in a similar boat). That said - can't see any point of moving to Nov 2021 personally - especially if they are looking to capitalize on the western/european/US market. The simple fact is there is no going back "like for like" after this and the vaccine will take some time to roll out (and it won't fix everything!). November is cold month - so it is likely another wave might be hitting by then (bear in mind the vaccine does not stop the actual spread of the virus - it only helps your body's response), and the virus seems to thrive more under cold conditions + it's harder to diagnose during the cold/flu season. The viable options are April (with streaming), move to Summer or kick into 2022. If they move to a summer month - hopefully better weather + increased vaccination will reduce the transmission rate (might not be as dramatically as we'd like however) - and you would still need to get people to head to the cinema (which is tricky). I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become. I hope they make Bond 26 a lot leaner so it's got a better chance of turning in a profit, the budget for NTTD seems ridiculously bloated (around $250M - before marketing costs?). They should also reevaluate their traditional distribution model - it's evolving.

    B26 should be less expensive, if only because the new Bond actor will be less expensive than Craig.

    I am wondering, and hoping, that part of what led Tenet and Wonder Woman to streaming is that the studios knew that the films were...not great. If NTTD is great, why not continue to build audience anticipation for it?
  • km16km16
    edited January 2021 Posts: 187
    echo wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    I can feel the pain both as a fan and for the marketing team (I run a film festival and I'm in a similar boat). That said - can't see any point of moving to Nov 2021 personally - especially if they are looking to capitalize on the western/european/US market. The simple fact is there is no going back "like for like" after this and the vaccine will take some time to roll out (and it won't fix everything!). November is cold month - so it is likely another wave might be hitting by then (bear in mind the vaccine does not stop the actual spread of the virus - it only helps your body's response), and the virus seems to thrive more under cold conditions + it's harder to diagnose during the cold/flu season. The viable options are April (with streaming), move to Summer or kick into 2022. If they move to a summer month - hopefully better weather + increased vaccination will reduce the transmission rate (might not be as dramatically as we'd like however) - and you would still need to get people to head to the cinema (which is tricky). I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become. I hope they make Bond 26 a lot leaner so it's got a better chance of turning in a profit, the budget for NTTD seems ridiculously bloated (around $250M - before marketing costs?). They should also reevaluate their traditional distribution model - it's evolving.

    B26 should be less expensive, if only because the new Bond actor will be less expensive than Craig.

    I am wondering, and hoping, that part of what led Tenet and Wonder Woman to streaming is that the studios knew that the films were...not great. If NTTD is great, why not continue to build audience anticipation for it?

    Streaming and the quality of product has nothing to do with that move by Warner Bros. It has everything to do with them trying to be competitive in todays market knowing the pandemic is still here and wanting to make money through what theaters are open / new and existing subscriptions to HBO Max. If we were going to operate under the subpar quality motive, then their entire 2021 slate must suck as its all going streaming. Even if it pissed a lot of industry folk off, it was a brillisnt move. They are giving the general population what they want - a safer option for home viewing and something new to watch, rather than everything, including new entertainment, being put on hold indefinitely.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    Why do some people think it's a joke?

    I have the answer: Fan entitlement. It's just petty.

    Postponing it a fourth (or is it fifth?) time to a certain date later would be laughable. Haven't they learned anything the last year? Either just postpone it again with no set date or postpone it to 2023 or something. The virus and restrictions aren't going away soon.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    You have a weird sense of humor then.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,386
    km16 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    I can feel the pain both as a fan and for the marketing team (I run a film festival and I'm in a similar boat). That said - can't see any point of moving to Nov 2021 personally - especially if they are looking to capitalize on the western/european/US market. The simple fact is there is no going back "like for like" after this and the vaccine will take some time to roll out (and it won't fix everything!). November is cold month - so it is likely another wave might be hitting by then (bear in mind the vaccine does not stop the actual spread of the virus - it only helps your body's response), and the virus seems to thrive more under cold conditions + it's harder to diagnose during the cold/flu season. The viable options are April (with streaming), move to Summer or kick into 2022. If they move to a summer month - hopefully better weather + increased vaccination will reduce the transmission rate (might not be as dramatically as we'd like however) - and you would still need to get people to head to the cinema (which is tricky). I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become. I hope they make Bond 26 a lot leaner so it's got a better chance of turning in a profit, the budget for NTTD seems ridiculously bloated (around $250M - before marketing costs?). They should also reevaluate their traditional distribution model - it's evolving.

    B26 should be less expensive, if only because the new Bond actor will be less expensive than Craig.

    I am wondering, and hoping, that part of what led Tenet and Wonder Woman to streaming is that the studios knew that the films were...not great. If NTTD is great, why not continue to build audience anticipation for it?

    Streaming and the quality of product has nothing to do with that move by Warner Bros. It has everything to do with them trying to be competitive in todays market knowing the pandemic is still here and wanting to make money through what theaters are open / new and existing subscriptions to HBO Max. If we were going to operate under the subpar quality motive, then their entire 2021 slate must suck as its all going streaming. Even if it pissed a lot of industry folk off, it was a brillisnt move. They are giving the general population what they want - a safer option for home viewing and something new to watch, rather than everything, including new entertainment, being put on hold indefinitely.

    I'm not so sure. One thing Tenet and WW share are generally tepid reviews.
  • km16km16
    edited January 2021 Posts: 187
    echo wrote: »
    km16 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    I can feel the pain both as a fan and for the marketing team (I run a film festival and I'm in a similar boat). That said - can't see any point of moving to Nov 2021 personally - especially if they are looking to capitalize on the western/european/US market. The simple fact is there is no going back "like for like" after this and the vaccine will take some time to roll out (and it won't fix everything!). November is cold month - so it is likely another wave might be hitting by then (bear in mind the vaccine does not stop the actual spread of the virus - it only helps your body's response), and the virus seems to thrive more under cold conditions + it's harder to diagnose during the cold/flu season. The viable options are April (with streaming), move to Summer or kick into 2022. If they move to a summer month - hopefully better weather + increased vaccination will reduce the transmission rate (might not be as dramatically as we'd like however) - and you would still need to get people to head to the cinema (which is tricky). I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become. I hope they make Bond 26 a lot leaner so it's got a better chance of turning in a profit, the budget for NTTD seems ridiculously bloated (around $250M - before marketing costs?). They should also reevaluate their traditional distribution model - it's evolving.

    B26 should be less expensive, if only because the new Bond actor will be less expensive than Craig.

    I am wondering, and hoping, that part of what led Tenet and Wonder Woman to streaming is that the studios knew that the films were...not great. If NTTD is great, why not continue to build audience anticipation for it?

    Streaming and the quality of product has nothing to do with that move by Warner Bros. It has everything to do with them trying to be competitive in todays market knowing the pandemic is still here and wanting to make money through what theaters are open / new and existing subscriptions to HBO Max. If we were going to operate under the subpar quality motive, then their entire 2021 slate must suck as its all going streaming. Even if it pissed a lot of industry folk off, it was a brillisnt move. They are giving the general population what they want - a safer option for home viewing and something new to watch, rather than everything, including new entertainment, being put on hold indefinitely.

    I'm not so sure. One thing Tenet and WW share are generally tepid reviews.

    So The Suicide Squad sucks? Conjuring 3? Matrix 4? Godzilla VS Kong? The Little Things? Judas and the Black Messiah? The Many Saints of Newark? Those Who Wish Me Dead? Mortal Kombat? Malignant? Cry Macho?

    All going to streaming cause they all suck? Come on....
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,386
    I'm saying Tenet and WW are test cases.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    echo wrote: »
    km16 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Satorious wrote: »
    I can feel the pain both as a fan and for the marketing team (I run a film festival and I'm in a similar boat). That said - can't see any point of moving to Nov 2021 personally - especially if they are looking to capitalize on the western/european/US market. The simple fact is there is no going back "like for like" after this and the vaccine will take some time to roll out (and it won't fix everything!). November is cold month - so it is likely another wave might be hitting by then (bear in mind the vaccine does not stop the actual spread of the virus - it only helps your body's response), and the virus seems to thrive more under cold conditions + it's harder to diagnose during the cold/flu season. The viable options are April (with streaming), move to Summer or kick into 2022. If they move to a summer month - hopefully better weather + increased vaccination will reduce the transmission rate (might not be as dramatically as we'd like however) - and you would still need to get people to head to the cinema (which is tricky). I also believe the longer the studio sit on the film - the less interested people are going to become. I hope they make Bond 26 a lot leaner so it's got a better chance of turning in a profit, the budget for NTTD seems ridiculously bloated (around $250M - before marketing costs?). They should also reevaluate their traditional distribution model - it's evolving.

    B26 should be less expensive, if only because the new Bond actor will be less expensive than Craig.

    I am wondering, and hoping, that part of what led Tenet and Wonder Woman to streaming is that the studios knew that the films were...not great. If NTTD is great, why not continue to build audience anticipation for it?

    Streaming and the quality of product has nothing to do with that move by Warner Bros. It has everything to do with them trying to be competitive in todays market knowing the pandemic is still here and wanting to make money through what theaters are open / new and existing subscriptions to HBO Max. If we were going to operate under the subpar quality motive, then their entire 2021 slate must suck as its all going streaming. Even if it pissed a lot of industry folk off, it was a brillisnt move. They are giving the general population what they want - a safer option for home viewing and something new to watch, rather than everything, including new entertainment, being put on hold indefinitely.

    I'm not so sure. One thing Tenet and WW share are generally tepid reviews.

    Tenet and WW84 got generally good reviews.The latter is getting a lot of hate from people who like their superhero movies stuffed with action scenes and quips every 5 mins ( Like most Marvel films ) wheras its a really good film which actually takes its time to tell its story and is all the better for it ( In my opinion ).

    WW84 also happens to be the highest grossing film domestically since the pandemic began and did very well on HBO MAX.Hence WW3 being greenlit very quickly.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    No WW3 got green lit quickly as a show of confidence by the studio as a marketing ploy because the reviews for WW2 fell dramatically and the film is getting at best mixed reviews from audiences
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    No WW3 got green lit quickly as a show of confidence by the studio as a marketing ploy because the reviews for WW2 fell dramatically and the film is getting at best mixed reviews from audiences

    Interesting conspiracy theory but it doesnt sound realistic.Disregarding reviews the film has performed well ( In Pandemic times ) and Patty Jenkins has a few films lined up including a Cleopatra movie and a Star Wars film.WW3 is being fast tracked because she and Gadot are going to be busy over the next few years.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    No WW3 got green lit quickly as a show of confidence by the studio as a marketing ploy because the reviews for WW2 fell dramatically and the film is getting at best mixed reviews from audiences

    Interesting conspiracy theory but it doesnt sound realistic.Disregarding reviews the film has performed well ( In Pandemic times ) and Patty Jenkins has a few films lined up including a Cleopatra movie and a Star Wars film.WW3 is being fast tracked because she and Gadot are going to be busy over the next few years.

    Cleopatra, Star Wars, then WW3. That’s not fast tracking. That’s nothing. Or rather, marketing.
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