Your 'problem-free' Bond movies.

2

Comments

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I'd probably have to go with QoS, mainly due to how action-packed it is in a short runtime. It just really hits that sweet spot for me every time I watch it and nothing glaringly bad or egregious stands out.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    I’ve met people who claim to be Alien fans who actually hate the vast majority of Alien franchise films ever made.

    “Alien 3?”
    “Hate it”
    “Alien Resurrection?”
    “Hate it”
    “Alien vs Predator?”
    “Hate it”
    “Prometheus?”
    “Hate it”
    “Alien covenant?”
    “Hate it”

    You wonder what the point of being a fan is, sometimes

    I feel very lucky with Bond though to have a solid series of films from 1962 onwards, and I will happily watch any of them.

    I don’t hate any of those, but they’re not my ideal Alien movies either. I thought Covenant was pretty good. It’s different from The Terminator franchise in that I honestly don’t like any of them after those first two magnificent films, which are untouchable. I defended Salvation for years, but I don’t feel it works for me that much anymore. Haven’t seen Dark Fate yet though.

    With Bond, I not only dislike but I detest everything about Die Another Day. It’s the only one where I really feel that way. Even I will admit that junky, unworthy entries like Moonraker, The Man With The Golden Gun and A View To A Kill have moments that I like. Can’t bring myself to entirely hate those ones.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    GF - Predator treatment of women, Goldfinger being sucked out of the plane
    .

    How could any discussion of Goldfinger and cringe NOT include that abhorrent acting and dialogue at the "hoods convention". Takes me out of the movie every time.

    I find Tilly's performance just before she's killed even more shocking.

    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Oooh, this one's tough. For me, QOS is probably closest to cringe-free for me.
    Almost the entire QoS movie is cringy, for me ;) 😅
    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.
    It works especially well for the novel imo. Bond going by train to Fort Knox with Goldfinger and the mafia guys, and seemingly no-one alive in the houses along the tracks (arranged by the CIA), so it seems Goldfinger's plan to kill the town population with poisoned water appears to have succeeded. Highly suspenseful and tragic, at least for the first read.
    (and I like it in the film, too)
  • Posts: 230
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    GF - Predator treatment of women, Goldfinger being sucked out of the plane
    .

    How could any discussion of Goldfinger and cringe NOT include that abhorrent acting and dialogue at the "hoods convention". Takes me out of the movie every time.

    I find Tilly's performance just before she's killed even more shocking.

    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.

    Right. Behind all of the nastalgia and iconography is a movie with lot more flaws than people like to talk about.

    Still a fun romp, of course.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    marc wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Oooh, this one's tough. For me, QOS is probably closest to cringe-free for me.
    Almost the entire QoS movie is cringy, for me ;) 😅
    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.
    It works especially well for the novel imo. Bond going by train to Fort Knox with Goldfinger and the mafia guys, and seemingly no-one alive in the houses along the tracks (arranged by the CIA), so it seems Goldfinger's plan to kill the town population with poisoned water appears to have succeeded. Highly suspenseful and tragic, at least for the first read.
    (and I like it in the film, too)

    It's been a while, but in the novel, doesn't Bond have a bit more reasonable hope that his message got out? In the film, it's clear to him that it didn't.

    But also, the way we see a bunch of apparently staged car accidents is kind of obnoxious. It drives me a bit nuts when things happen in movies that don't really make sense solely for the benefit of the audience, either to trick them, or provide exposition. Once we get to Kentucky, Goldfinger has loads of it.
  • Posts: 1,917
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    GF - Predator treatment of women, Goldfinger being sucked out of the plane
    .

    How could any discussion of Goldfinger and cringe NOT include that abhorrent acting and dialogue at the "hoods convention". Takes me out of the movie every time.

    I find Tilly's performance just before she's killed even more shocking.

    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.

    These are keys for me in not feeling the GF love so many others do. Sure we have the iconic moments, but those hood accents -- "Goldfinguh" -- are distracting. Tania Mallet is wooden in acting and delivery, but not too distracting.

    I'll throw in Cec Linder as another main offender, my least favorite Leiter portrayal. Jack Lord's Leiter at least lent some mystery and seemed like a guy who would join Bond on an adventure. Linder not only looks like a typical fed of the day with his baggy suits and Ted Knight Caddyshack hat, but his line deliveries are straight out of a B-movie of the time.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited June 2021 Posts: 814
    It seems to me that, like Ian Fleming, Guy Hamilton takes a dim view of us Americans and Felix and all the idiot, cartoony gangsters are a result of that, whereas (if his cool, aloof Felixes are any indication) Terence Young might’ve had a bit of a better handle on them. I sometimes wonder what a Young-directed Goldfinger would have been like. I sure as hell adore DN, FRWL and especially TB more than GF.
  • Posts: 1,917
    It seems to me that, like Ian Fleming, Guy Hamilton takes a dim view of us Americans and Felix and all the idiot, cartoony gangsters are a result of that, whereas (if his cool, aloof Felixes are any indication) Terence Young might’ve had a bit of a better handle on them. I sometimes wonder what a Young-directed Goldfinger would have been like. I sure as hell adore DN, FRWL and especially TB more than GF.

    We're on the same page as far as that goes. I like the Rik van Nutter Felix much better, but even he leaves a lot to be desired. I too have wondered what a Young-directed GF would've been like and would include that as one of the great what-ifs of the series.

    Many have countered Hamilton's touch contributed in GF becoming a blockbuster that pushed Bond over the top and I don't dispute that. I just prefer the harder edge Young brought and that may have helped enhance my appreciation of the film more.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    BT3366 wrote: »
    It seems to me that, like Ian Fleming, Guy Hamilton takes a dim view of us Americans and Felix and all the idiot, cartoony gangsters are a result of that, whereas (if his cool, aloof Felixes are any indication) Terence Young might’ve had a bit of a better handle on them. I sometimes wonder what a Young-directed Goldfinger would have been like. I sure as hell adore DN, FRWL and especially TB more than GF.

    We're on the same page as far as that goes. I like the Rik van Nutter Felix much better, but even he leaves a lot to be desired. I too have wondered what a Young-directed GF would've been like and would include that as one of the great what-ifs of the series.

    Many have countered Hamilton's touch contributed in GF becoming a blockbuster that pushed Bond over the top and I don't dispute that. I just prefer the harder edge Young brought and that may have helped enhance my appreciation of the film more.

    I'd love to see a Terence Young GF. I actually really love Guy Hamilton and the slight pisstake tone he brings to his movies, but vastly prefer his other three. I know Guy didn't write the script, but watching Bond screw up so much and having the plot resolved offscreen by secondary characters is a bit too much for me personally. It does feel pure Guy Hamilton, and I'm sure those are both aspects that he got quite a kick out of, but the satirical bent, for my money, is done much better in DAF. (LALD and TMWTGG are also very much his wheelhouse, but less deliberately mocking of the franchise, for my money)
  • Posts: 230
    BT3366 wrote: »
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    GF - Predator treatment of women, Goldfinger being sucked out of the plane
    .

    How could any discussion of Goldfinger and cringe NOT include that abhorrent acting and dialogue at the "hoods convention". Takes me out of the movie every time.

    I find Tilly's performance just before she's killed even more shocking.

    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.



    I'll throw in Cec Linder as another main offender, my least favorite Leiter portrayal. Jack Lord's Leiter at least lent some mystery and seemed like a guy who would join Bond on an adventure. Linder not only looks like a typical fed of the day with his baggy suits and Ted Knight Caddyshack hat, but his line deliveries are straight out of a B-movie of the time.

    Whew - worse than Van Nutter being condescended to by Bond and acting like an idiot who was DESREVING of it? Close one.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    JamesStock wrote: »
    GF - Predator treatment of women, Goldfinger being sucked out of the plane
    .

    How could any discussion of Goldfinger and cringe NOT include that abhorrent acting and dialogue at the "hoods convention". Takes me out of the movie every time.

    I find Tilly's performance just before she's killed even more shocking.

    I don't know if it counts as cringe, but the fact that Felix shows up and explains that he and Ms Galore more or less resolved the plot of the movie offscreen is fairly offensive.



    I'll throw in Cec Linder as another main offender, my least favorite Leiter portrayal. Jack Lord's Leiter at least lent some mystery and seemed like a guy who would join Bond on an adventure. Linder not only looks like a typical fed of the day with his baggy suits and Ted Knight Caddyshack hat, but his line deliveries are straight out of a B-movie of the time.

    Whew - worse than Van Nutter being condescended to by Bond and acting like an idiot who was DESREVING of it? Close one.

    I like Rik more than Cec (what the hell is going on with these names), but yeah, he is a bit like the Milhouse to Sean's Bond.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    I don't have any of these problems:

    "no 'need-a-bathroom-break or fridge raid' or check messages moment"

    I don't worry about bathroom breaks or raiding my fridge for another bottle of wine, even during the highlights of each movie. I've got them all on Blu-ray and simply press "pause" when human needs arise. Other than that, there are ample problems with each the fims at some point, as we all know. I just find the love for Octopussy in this thread particularly striking, since my impression has been since the 80s that it is inferior to its direct competitor, NSNA, and only marginally better than the bottom line of all Bond movies, including for me AVTAK, DAF, TWINE and DAD (in downward order).

    I may revisit Octopussy one of these days, but I may be less likely than with other films to hit pause if I have to take a pee.
  • Posts: 1,596
    Honestly, none of the Bond films are problem-free. None. The closest I can think of would be CR, but even that has some pacing issues before we get to Montenegro.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Honestly, none of the Bond films are problem-free. None. The closest I can think of would be CR, but even that has some pacing issues before we get to Montenegro.

    Pacing issues? LOL, Please. I was thinking blinking pigeons & Space Marines... ;)
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    It's been a while, but in the novel, doesn't Bond have a bit more reasonable hope that his message got out? In the film, it's clear to him that it didn't.
    Yes, Bond takes pains to hide a message to the CIA in a plane toilet, for the cleaning staff to find.
    Is it clear to him it didn't, in the film? To the audience, yes, but I can't remember it was clear to him.
    But also, the way we see a bunch of apparently staged car accidents is kind of obnoxious. It drives me a bit nuts when things happen in movies that don't really make sense solely for the benefit of the audience
    Sure, I can understand that. Speaking for myself, it doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the movie because I'm much more interested in the overall plot and style than in such 'small details'.
  • Posts: 1,596
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Honestly, none of the Bond films are problem-free. None. The closest I can think of would be CR, but even that has some pacing issues before we get to Montenegro.

    Pacing issues? LOL, Please. I was thinking blinking pigeons & Space Marines... ;)

    Haha. In that case, no. There aren't any Bond films that have zero moments where I'm a little less-than-enamored. Even the newest films have groaner parts that haven't "aged well" or will ill-conceived.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    marc wrote: »
    It's been a while, but in the novel, doesn't Bond have a bit more reasonable hope that his message got out? In the film, it's clear to him that it didn't.
    Yes, Bond takes pains to hide a message to the CIA in a plane toilet, for the cleaning staff to find.
    Is it clear to him it didn't, in the film? To the audience, yes, but I can't remember it was clear to him.

    Yeah, the car comes back and Goldfinger mentions separating his gold from Mr Solo, and Bond seems to know his plan doesn't work. I mean, if he doesn't realize that, he can't be very clever!
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Yeah, the car comes back and Goldfinger mentions separating his gold from Mr Solo, and Bond seems to know his plan doesn't work. I mean, if he doesn't realize that, he can't be very clever!
    Ah, thanks. I didn't remember it being mentioned in Bond's presence.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    marc wrote: »
    Yeah, the car comes back and Goldfinger mentions separating his gold from Mr Solo, and Bond seems to know his plan doesn't work. I mean, if he doesn't realize that, he can't be very clever!
    Ah, thanks. I didn't remember it being mentioned in Bond's presence.

    Nice post, for those of us whom haven't seen GF very recently...
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    marc wrote: »
    It's been a while, but in the novel, doesn't Bond have a bit more reasonable hope that his message got out? In the film, it's clear to him that it didn't.
    Yes, Bond takes pains to hide a message to the CIA in a plane toilet, for the cleaning staff to find.
    Is it clear to him it didn't, in the film? To the audience, yes, but I can't remember it was clear to him.
    But also, the way we see a bunch of apparently staged car accidents is kind of obnoxious. It drives me a bit nuts when things happen in movies that don't really make sense solely for the benefit of the audience
    Sure, I can understand that. Speaking for myself, it doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the movie because I'm much more interested in the overall plot and style than in such 'small details'.

    I think you nail it in this post @marc
    I’m not sure films are supposed to be super analysed as we do now. Especially not the 60’s Bond films or the 70’s , 80’s, 90’s or most of the Craig films for that matter.
    A film is supposed to entertain us. Thrill us and amaze us. If a film can use and all female flying circus to gas everyone in the vicinity of Fort Knox, whilst a British agent played by a Scotsman is strapped to an atomic device that gets placed within the vault where gold is stacked higher than it could be. Then yes, I’m going along for the ride.
    And I’m loving every thrilling minute of it.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Benny wrote: »
    I’m not sure films are supposed to be super analysed as we do now. Especially not the 60’s Bond films or the 70’s , 80’s, 90’s or most of the Craig films for that matter.
    I don't participate too much in these kinds of analytical plot discussions anymore. I used to, but now I honestly find it counterproductive.
  • Posts: 1,917
    marc wrote: »
    It's been a while, but in the novel, doesn't Bond have a bit more reasonable hope that his message got out? In the film, it's clear to him that it didn't.
    Yes, Bond takes pains to hide a message to the CIA in a plane toilet, for the cleaning staff to find.
    Is it clear to him it didn't, in the film? To the audience, yes, but I can't remember it was clear to him.

    Yeah, the car comes back and Goldfinger mentions separating his gold from Mr Solo, and Bond seems to know his plan doesn't work. I mean, if he doesn't realize that, he can't be very clever!
    This also brings out a couple of issues I've often wondered about: I realize it was important for the ruse to give Solo his share of gold. So why did they go to the trouble of crushing the gold along with Solo? Couldn't the production team have added a shot of Oddjob taking the gold out of the trunk? Sure it leads to a great line for Goldfinger, but why go to the trouble? Although I could imagine Goldfinger gleefully getting his gold back, although it may be messy.

    Also, did Solo have a private or chartered flight? I'd like to imagine his explanation to commercial airline agents about hauling this amount of gold back to wherever he was returning. Then again, he's got connections, so it wouldn't be too problematic, I suppose.
    Benny wrote: »
    marc wrote: »
    It's been a while, but in the novel, doesn't Bond have a bit more reasonable hope that his message got out? In the film, it's clear to him that it didn't.
    Yes, Bond takes pains to hide a message to the CIA in a plane toilet, for the cleaning staff to find.
    Is it clear to him it didn't, in the film? To the audience, yes, but I can't remember it was clear to him.
    But also, the way we see a bunch of apparently staged car accidents is kind of obnoxious. It drives me a bit nuts when things happen in movies that don't really make sense solely for the benefit of the audience
    Sure, I can understand that. Speaking for myself, it doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the movie because I'm much more interested in the overall plot and style than in such 'small details'.

    I think you nail it in this post @marc
    I’m not sure films are supposed to be super analysed as we do now. Especially not the 60’s Bond films or the 70’s , 80’s, 90’s or most of the Craig films for that matter.
    A film is supposed to entertain us. Thrill us and amaze us. If a film can use and all female flying circus to gas everyone in the vicinity of Fort Knox, whilst a British agent played by a Scotsman is strapped to an atomic device that gets placed within the vault where gold is stacked higher than it could be. Then yes, I’m going along for the ride.
    And I’m loving every thrilling minute of it.

    Yeah, that's how it should be. It's why I never watch those YouTube videos or articles about here's everything wrong with this film or that.

    But we'd have a lot less to discuss on boards like this if we didn't have the opportunity to watch these over and over. I've also noticed though that some of the films in the series get more slack than others when it comes to some of these issues.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    As a kid I wondered why Goldfinger would go to the trouble of having to remove the gold from Solo & his car instead of just killing him first- now I know.
    It's a movie. ;) And it afforded a funny line.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Nice post, for those of us whom haven't seen GF very recently...
    Yes; maybe it's because it isn't that obvious (or that iconic, as a quote) in the German dubbing that I didn't give these sentences a lot of thought.
    Benny wrote: »
    I’m not sure films are supposed to be super analysed as we do now. Especially not the 60’s Bond films or the 70’s , 80’s, 90’s or most of the Craig films for that matter.
    I agree that these analyses shouldn't be a main focus. Although they can be a lot of fun. (while for others they might partly spoil the fun)
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Although I could imagine Goldfinger gleefully getting his gold back, although it may be messy.
    Indeed; seeing how Goldfinger wastes his gold in painting his girlfriends; why not waste it on his enemies, too? 🙂
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    So, I'm going with no reason.

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited June 2021 Posts: 3,262
    Benny wrote: »
    I’m not sure films are supposed to be super analysed as we do now. Especially not the 60’s Bond films or the 70’s , 80’s, 90’s or most of the Craig films for that matter.
    A film is supposed to entertain us. Thrill us and amaze us. If a film can use and all female flying circus to gas everyone in the vicinity of Fort Knox, whilst a British agent played by a Scotsman is strapped to an atomic device that gets placed within the vault where gold is stacked higher than it could be. Then yes, I’m going along for the ride.
    And I’m loving every thrilling minute of it.

    +1.

    If one could take a time machine back to the 1960s and inform Broccoli and Saltzman that their films were still being analyzed and watched and rewatched in the 2020s they probably would've been surprised. They were too busy raking in the money with one hit film after another to worry about things like a 1967 Bond telling Henderson he had never been to Japan before while the 1963 Bond mentions being in Tokyo with M or why "Count de Bleauchamp" does not recognize "Sir Hilary Bray" despite the two having met in the previous film.

    I don't think there is one single perfect, flawless, "cringe-free" Bond film and that's fine. Usually something that goes wrong in one film is made up for in another and that helps them complement each other.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    I don't think is one single perfect, flawless, "cringe-free" Bond film and that's fine.
    When is the last time you saw The Living Daylights? Just curious... ;)
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I don't think there is one single perfect, flawless, "cringe-free" Bond film and that's fine.
    When is the last time you saw The Living Daylights? Just curious... ;)

    Oh, I love TLD. I consider it the best Bond film made post-Terence Young.

    But even it has an imperfection, i.e. the 2 lead villains Koskov and Whitaker are far from the strongest. The next film LTK strongly corrected that with Sanchez although it had other problems that TLD did not have. But that's just another example of how the films complement each other.

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    It’s safe to say that EON truly learns from their mistakes, for the most part.
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