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My biggest difference was that I had SF in 9th place while the group ranking was 20th for a total of 11 spots. What was everyone else's?
I'm very down with this idea.
I suppose there are two, possibly three films where the identity of the main villain might be in contention.
There's usually a question as to whether Georgi Koskov or Brad Whitaker is the main villain of The Living Daylights. The two are working together and technically neither one holds any more power than the other in their partnership, but I'm personally more inclined to call Koskov the main villain and Whitaker a secondary antagonist as Koskov has more screen time, presence and involvement in the climax, and more of a relationship with James Bond. Thoughts?
Similarly, Renard and Elektra King are working together in The World Is Not Enough, but I see even less of a question here as to who is really in charge. Elektra has Renard wrapped around her finger to the extent he is willing to die to see her scheme fulfilled. Elektra is quite undeniably the main villain in my view and Renard perhaps the most glorified henchman of all. I believe the question only arises because the first half of the film sets the viewer up to believe Elektra is the main Bond girl and Renard the main villain when the truth is anything but.
As for the other possible point of contention regarding who the main villain is, some might be tempted to call Blofeld the main villain of From Russia With Love because Klebb is seen reporting to him along with Kronsteen and Morzeny and is herself clearly quite intimidated by him, but I see Klebb as no less the main villain of FRWL than Emilio Largo is of Thunderball or Maximillian Largo of Never Say Never Again.
I'd imagine the rest are more or less straightforward.
Dr. Julius No
Rosa Klebb
Auric Goldfinger
Emilio Largo
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (YOLT)
Le Chiffre (CR '67)
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (OHMSS)
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (DAF)
Kananga
Francisco Scaramanga
Karl Stromberg
Hugo Drax
Aris Kristatos
Kamal Khan
Maximillian Largo
Max Zorin
Georgi Koskov
Franz Sanchez
Alec Trevelyan
Elliot Carver
Elektra King
Colonel Tan-Sun Moon/Gustav Graves
Le Chiffre (CR '06)
Dominic Greene
Tiago Rodriguez/Raoul Silva
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (SP)
Opposing views?
BTW. Today (August 4th) marked Louis Armstrong's 120th birthday, so OHMSS winning this game was quite appropriate.
As for who the main villains are, I am thinking Klebb in FRWL, Elektra in TWINE and Whitaker in TLD.
Regarding just these two films, yes Klebb answers to Blofeld, but I personally think Red Grant is worse than Klebb because he kills Fake James Bond; the Bulgar agent; Captain Norman Nash; Ali Kerim Bey and Commisar Benz; drugs Tania and almost kills Bond, coming closer to that than Klebb's poisoned shoe blade. Grant dominates so much and is on a level above your everyday run-of-the-mill henchman. TLD: Yes Brad Whitaker is a tough cookie, but I think Koskov is the more central villain.
I would also say that Whitaker is the main villain and Elektra for sure.
I meant "exotic" as a general word, I actually meant YOLT as being the most exotic, it's just that I generally prefer those scores but not always. With regard to "simplistic" I meant simple rhythmic structures, which is in OHMSS's main structural theme.
I see. Fair point, @Quantum_of_Tomorrow. Would you say the score in its entirety repeats those simple structures all the time? Because I'm not exactly musically trained, so I don't pay a lot of attention to that myself.
Well, the climactic battle of Casino Royale was not with Obanno.... That's a pretty hyperbolic point. Whitaker may not be the best villain, and he may not be in the film much more than Klebb is in hers, but he's a main villain.
Not all the time, but I think it has the same core structures all the way through, but Barry expands on them.
Red Grant is a great character, no question, and he does a lot, but there are a number of henchmen who take on a great deal of responsibility in their respective films. What it all comes down to is what role does the character serve in the story? Is he the main villain or is he a henchman? Grant takes his orders from Klebb; no one takes their orders from Grant. I would say Renard and what he does in TWINE is more akin to what you would expect of the main villain than what we see of Grant. But at the end of the day, Renard is subordinate to the main villain and takes his orders from Elektra. Grant similarly is subordinate to the main villain in FRWL and takes his orders from Klebb.
I agree with those who regard Koskov THE main villain of TLD as he's the more prominent character of the two, but I'm fine with either Koskov or Whitaker being used. I am curious though, for those who regard Whitaker as the better choice, why Whitaker over Koskov? The two are as far as I can tell on equal footing and Koskov has more presence in the film.
Re: CR '67, I agree Dr. Noah makes the most sense.
My reasoning is that Whitaker is giving orders to both Koskov and Necros. There is even a scene where they're both at the pool and they are being collected by that fake soldier, something along the lines of 'the chief wants you', with Koskov saying to Necros 'We have to report.'
Good idea.
I think you have to take that line as sarcasm—Koskov poking fun at Whitaker's self-importance and delusions of being an actual military man. He also sticks his tongue out at the "soldier" and strolls up to Whitaker's table in a bathrobe and Panama hat, ready to get back to necking the two girls he's with. Koskov is buying illegal arms from Whitaker with KGB funds. That's all their relationship amounts to.
Pushkin told Whitaker the arms deal was off. Koskov assures Whitaker that James Bond is going to assassinate Pushkin, meaning the deal is still on. Whitaker doesn't believe him and says Necros should kill Pushkin. Necros is reluctant to do so. Koskov suggests Necros kill another agent (Saunders) to convince Bond to kill Pushkin. Whitaker agrees, but demands Necros kill Pushkin if Bond fails to.
It's all about making sure their deal stays on so Koskov gets his arms and Whitaker gets his money. They're business partners but neither one is controlling the other. It's in Koskov's own interests that Pushkin wind up dead so he can get his arms. Whitaker doesn't really have a say in how Pushkin winds up dead. He just doesn't believe Koskov has a British agent who's going to do the job for him.
By all appearances, Necros is Koskov's hired hand, not Whitaker's. We only see Necros at Whitaker's place when Koskov is there, and Necros is the one who stages Koskov's abduction, kills Saunders at Koskov's behest, and accompanies Koskov on his drug deal with the Mujahideen. Whitaker's just the guy Koskov is buying illegal arms from.
I can see how the scene would be misleading though because Whitaker demands Koskov come over to where he's sitting at the head of the table, cracking open lobster claws in his full fake general regalia. He's also directing what sounds like orders at Koskov and Necros alike. But Whitaker has no authority over either of them, Koskov or Necros. He's just short-tempered and irritated about Pushkin interfering with the deal, whereas Koskov is laid-back and confident Bond will resolve the problem for them.
Whould this list be fine for everyone?
Dr. Julius No
Rosa Klebb
Auric Goldfinger
Emilio Largo
Dr. Noah
Ernst Stavro Blofeld #1
Ernst Stavro Blofeld #2
Ernst Stavro Blofeld #3
Dr. Ross Kananga
Francisco Scaramanga
Karl Stromberg
Hugo Drax
Aris Kristatos
Kamal Khan & Orlov
Maximilian Largo
Max Zorin
Brad Whitaker & Georgi Koskov
Franz Sanchez
Alec Trevelyan
Elliott Carver
Elektra King
Gustav Graves / Colonel Moon
Le Chiffre
Dominic Greene
Silva
Ernst Stavro Blofeld #4
It might be interesting to have a secondary antagonist game at some point, featuring villains who don't quite qualify as henchmen but who are in league with or in a kind of partnership with the main villain (Kronsteen, Mr. Ling, Osato, Irma Bunt, Baron Samedi, Hai Fat, Orlov, Milton Krest, Ourumov, General Chang, Renard, Mr. White, Obanno, Medrano, and there are others I'm sure).