NO TIME TO DIE - Questions Thread

1181921232432

Comments

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    Absolutely. You can hear Welles deliver it too, clear as day!
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 735
    OMG ... I completely forgot about that, haha. I must have blocked it out!

    So a "missed opportunity" might be more like it!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 3,147
    Hah, excellent - explains why I could see it so clearly in my mind, even if there's apparently only a tiny bit of that mind that's actually working at the moment! 😂 Yes, this is my shame face...
  • Posts: 15,106
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 735
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    The Welles as Bond villain that I tend to think of is closer to the younger physical threat of a Mads Mikkelsen in CR, but with a cheerfully cynical humor and a great deal more charisma. As with his Harry Lime.

    Or perhaps what Eon might have achieved with Waltz as Blofeld. Is it even possible that the "cuckoo clock" line from The Third Man inspired the similarly anecdotal usage of "cuckoo" in Spectre?

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    That's a Bond villain in the making right there, yessir.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,020
    Venutius wrote: »
    That's a Bond villain in the making right there, yessir.

    Orson Welles? I would eat my shoe if they managed to bring him back to life and got him to play a Bond villain-- in an EON film that is. It would be delightful.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    The Welles as Bond villain that I tend to think of is closer to the younger physical threat of a Mads Mikkelsen in CR, but with a cheerfully cynical humor and a great deal more charisma. As with his Harry Lime.

    Or perhaps what Eon might have achieved with Waltz as Blofeld. Is it even possible that the "cuckoo clock" line from The Third Man inspired the similarly anecdotal usage of "cuckoo" in Spectre?


    Funny I never thought of that. And I love the cuckoo clock speech from The Third Man.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    The Welles as Bond villain that I tend to think of is closer to the younger physical threat of a Mads Mikkelsen in CR, but with a cheerfully cynical humor and a great deal more charisma. As with his Harry Lime.

    Or perhaps what Eon might have achieved with Waltz as Blofeld. Is it even possible that the "cuckoo clock" line from The Third Man inspired the similarly anecdotal usage of "cuckoo" in Spectre?


    Funny I never thought of that. And I love the cuckoo clock speech from The Third Man.

    There's an Orson Welles doppelgänger at the Spectre birthday party in Cuba.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2021 Posts: 4,343
    That guy looked more like Peter Lorre.
  • Posts: 12,462
    I actually thought of both of them when I've watched it!
  • Posts: 15,106
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I just rewatched The Third Man and is it only me or does the whole last act of NTTD borrows heavily from it? The whole medical angle of both films seem also very similar.
    I don't really see the similarities myself, except that the shots in the tunnels and cramped spaces of Poison Island are vaguely similar to those of the sewers and streets of post-war Vienna, minus the expressionist lighting and camera work that help distinguish The Third Man as such a great film.

    But it reminds me that in the cheerful cynicism & self-justifying charisma of the villain so memorably portrayed by Orson Welles, we missed out on an actor who might have made a great Bond villain himself.

    Anthony Burgess said that when he was working on TSWLM script, the idea was to have "a gross Orson Welles in a wheelchair" as the main villain.
    The Welles as Bond villain that I tend to think of is closer to the younger physical threat of a Mads Mikkelsen in CR, but with a cheerfully cynical humor and a great deal more charisma. As with his Harry Lime.

    Or perhaps what Eon might have achieved with Waltz as Blofeld. Is it even possible that the "cuckoo clock" line from The Third Man inspired the similarly anecdotal usage of "cuckoo" in Spectre?


    Funny I never thought of that. And I love the cuckoo clock speech from The Third Man.

    There's an Orson Welles doppelgänger at the Spectre birthday party in Cuba.

    Off topic, but there's a few scenes/elements that call back to The Third Man in SP. The funeral in Rome for instance.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 403
    Feyador wrote: »
    But it raises another question, how the heck did Blofeld get away with wearing a bionic eye while in his cell? He was being monitored. Surely someone would have noticed a Blofeld that suddenly had two eyes?

    Again, not that any of this detracts from my love & enjoyment of the film ....

    That's what those in the biz refer to as a "plot hole"

    Every Bond movie has a few
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 403
    matt_u wrote: »
    They didn't change anything because of COVID. Purvis & Wade pitched the idea for nanobots back in 1998 for TWINE.

    Fair enough!

    Not necessarily

    P&W - How about nano bots?
    B&W - Too far fetched
    P&W - How about an invisible car?
    B&W - Now your talking!
    P&W - How about a tailored virus bio weapon?
    B&W - Awesome!
    Covid 19
    B&W - On second thoughts, maybe a bit too controversial at the moment
    CF - But we've already finished filming!
    P&W - How about nanobots?
    B&W - Perfick!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Wot?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Gettler wrote: »
    Sorry if this was asked already, but would it have been possible to create new nanobots designed to eliminate the deadly nanobots inside an "infected" person (such as James)?

    One of many possible solutions the creative team could have come up with to solve the nanobots problem; the thing is, what was more important to them was to tell this story, and narratively speaking, the nanobots had to be "eternal" for them to tell the story they wanted to tell.

    Wish they had kept it as a biological weapon rather than a technological weapon. Was it because of COVID that they changed this?

    IIRC, Covid started after filming was over.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 403
    echo wrote: »
    Gettler wrote: »
    Sorry if this was asked already, but would it have been possible to create new nanobots designed to eliminate the deadly nanobots inside an "infected" person (such as James)?

    One of many possible solutions the creative team could have come up with to solve the nanobots problem; the thing is, what was more important to them was to tell this story, and narratively speaking, the nanobots had to be "eternal" for them to tell the story they wanted to tell.

    Wish they had kept it as a biological weapon rather than a technological weapon. Was it because of COVID that they changed this?

    IIRC, Covid started after filming was over.

    That doesn't mean it didn't have an effect. Any time after the intended release date was postponed could have led to a rethink and revision.

    The nanobots are only mentioned and explained in one (or two?) conversations, small scenes that could easily have been reshot or voiced over.

    When the fluid containing them is shown on screen there is nothing that really suggests they might not just as easily be a bio-weapon / virus.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Why the single oblique reference to Safin as "Doctor"?

    Was Safin, in fact, 'Dr. No' at some point in the making of the film. Certainly the choppy narrative suggests that much might have been cut out of the final film to achieve a reasonable running time. Did they just miss this reference in the editing stage?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    I think there were many references and call backs to Dr. No; I doubt Safin ever actually was Dr. No.
  • Posts: 2,159
    echo wrote: »
    Gettler wrote: »
    Sorry if this was asked already, but would it have been possible to create new nanobots designed to eliminate the deadly nanobots inside an "infected" person (such as James)?

    One of many possible solutions the creative team could have come up with to solve the nanobots problem; the thing is, what was more important to them was to tell this story, and narratively speaking, the nanobots had to be "eternal" for them to tell the story they wanted to tell.

    Wish they had kept it as a biological weapon rather than a technological weapon. Was it because of COVID that they changed this?

    IIRC, Covid started after filming was over.

    Fukunaga has confirmed in the latest Empire magazine that the film was not changed die to covid.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 403
    Mallory wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Gettler wrote: »
    Sorry if this was asked already, but would it have been possible to create new nanobots designed to eliminate the deadly nanobots inside an "infected" person (such as James)?

    One of many possible solutions the creative team could have come up with to solve the nanobots problem; the thing is, what was more important to them was to tell this story, and narratively speaking, the nanobots had to be "eternal" for them to tell the story they wanted to tell.

    Wish they had kept it as a biological weapon rather than a technological weapon. Was it because of COVID that they changed this?

    IIRC, Covid started after filming was over.

    Fukunaga has confirmed in the latest Empire magazine that the film was not changed die to covid.

    The thing is you can't always accept what people in the biz say at face value, due to the vested interests involved.

    There are plenty of things Eon have said over the years which I doubt are true, but others accept as gospel just because Eon have asserted it

    We all have to make up our own minds as to what we think really happened

    For me nanobots remain a step too far, like "magnetic parachutes" and invisible cars
    So I like to think the Bond creators would have enough sense to go for the more "credible" option of a virus as their first choice.

    On the other hand they did choose to go with the "magnetic parachute" and the invisible car... so I'm probably over estimating them lol
  • Posts: 1,075
    I think the idea they changed it during covid is a rather interesting conspiracy theory. In Safin's layer, the whole deal with the guys in the water, is that they seem to be harvesting something.
    And yes, they'd only need to change a few scenes, to swap the contagion from a virus, to a tech weapon.
    I like it! I doubt it, and I'm not saying that's what they did, but like a lot of theories, it's an idea that could be built on to make a decent argument for it.
    I can well imagine them not wanting to say they changed the plot due to covid. It would weaken the reception of the film, as people looked for the joins.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 403
    I think the idea they changed it during covid is a rather interesting conspiracy theory. In Safin's layer, the whole deal with the guys in the water, is that they seem to be harvesting something.
    And yes, they'd only need to change a few scenes, to swap the contagion from a virus, to a tech weapon.
    I like it! I doubt it, and I'm not saying that's what they did, but like a lot of theories, it's an idea that could be built on to make a decent argument for it.
    I can well imagine them not wanting to say they changed the plot due to covid. It would weaken the reception of the film, as people looked for the joins.

    I like your thinking

    And the whole poison garden thing is biological, not mechanical or electrical

  • edited December 2021 Posts: 1,075
    And it stands to reason they'd keep those scenes in, because they were the big set pieces.
    I mean, the more you think about it, the more obvious it is. Safin's whole deal is biological, with him knowing the poison from the plants, and the Garden of Death etc.
    And, the women dressed at Mormons carrying stuff . . . what was all that about? I reckon they could well have deleted scenes explaining Safin's biological virus, and created the whole nanobot stuff just to keep the covid confusion/comparisons away.

    I think, in the pre-covid edit of NTTD, this scene would have been explained, but they had to edit all mention of Safin's virus, so we just get this glimpse of the virus harvesters. . .

    vlcsnap-2021-11-09-22h29m13s614.png


    Look at that image and think, agricultural, or technical?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Geez... again with this nonsense.

    They based Safin's nanobots on some speculative science about how you can make nanobots with acid and bacteria. That's why there's a giant pool with Safin's minions working. That is basically a massive acid bath the nanobots are built in, the one Nomi calls "the farm". So that bacteria farm provides the raw material for Safin's deadly toxins, that are cultivated using the island's nutrient-rich volcanic waters. Then, in the "factory", those biochemical nanobots raised inside the pool are encoded and loaded in the vials.

    It's not a virus. Never been a virus. But it works like a virus. You infect the people and the people become the weapon.

    Plus, this nanobots idea dates back to TWINE. Purvis & Wade considered using nanobots for that film.

    All of this is stated in the Making of and Taschen books.
  • Posts: 1,075
    That's a very comprehensive reply, thanks.
    matt_u wrote: »
    All of this is stated in the Making of and Taschen books.

    When were they published please? (I don't have them, sorry).
  • Posts: 207
    What is up with M's demeanor at the end? Did he know that Bond was going to die? Secretly upset about Heracles? The way he looks and acts just seems odd to me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    What is up with M's demeanor at the end? Did he know that Bond was going to die? Secretly upset about Heracles? The way he looks and acts just seems odd to me.

    I think it was just the launching of missiles that were very likely to kill Bond.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited December 2021 Posts: 4,343
    That's a very comprehensive reply, thanks.
    matt_u wrote: »
    All of this is stated in the Making of and Taschen books.

    When were they published please? (I don't have them, sorry).

    Back in October.

    I was looking forward for some kind of further explanations regarding all this nanobot stuff and even if all this concept it is still kinda weird at least they gave more context.

    Even tho I find it cool that they are using the thermal waters of the island, that tend to produce a lot of algae that produce bacteria, as the main device to harvest the nanobots inside those acid bacteria pools.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I think we will have these discussions about the nanobots coming in because of covid for decades to come, with new generations of fans discovering the film. It just makes too much sense if you look at it from the outside. The threat works like a virus, then there was a huge viral pandemic that killed millions and delayed the film for years and then in the final film the fact that they are nanobots that work like a virus, but not actually a virus, is really hard to follow and does feel grafted on. So I predict people will come up with this again and again, because it just looks so likely on the face of it. Only that it didn't happen as far as we know.
    Zarozzor wrote: »
    What is up with M's demeanor at the end? Did he know that Bond was going to die? Secretly upset about Heracles? The way he looks and acts just seems odd to me.

    I haven't seen the film in a while, so I don't have the scene totally in my mind, but I would say it's him realizing/coming to terms with the fact that he completely screwed up.
    He should be very upset about what happened with Heracles. As far as we understand it, the whole situation isn't super far away from igniting an international conflict and he just ordered a missile strike, which is a very significant thing to do (and it's unclear how he is even allowed to do that) and will surely have foreign and security policy repercussions to come. On top of that, there is the whole situation of one of his agents being in peril/being dead (although it's not like him and Bond had a great relationship or anything).
    Honestly, if you look at everything M pulls in this film and all that happens under his watch, you'd think he'd resign the next day and pray they don't put him before whatever court is responsible if someone breaks the Biological Weapons Convention. So if you read it that way, he is in the middle of his entire life and career disintegrating right then and there.
Sign In or Register to comment.