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What does Gen Z want in the next Bond?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    My biggest “who cares?” is cigarettes. That was more common in the novels and 60s films. Aside from two cigars, Roger Moore’s Bond never smoked a cigarettes. Did that make him less Bondian? Dalton briefly brought back the cigs but like his tenure that ended abruptly Yet with Dalton they also deemphasized Bond’s womanizing. Did that make him a lesser Bond? Did Brosnan and Craig never lighting a cig ruin the sanctity of the character?

    In order to change Bond dramatically from his roots, they would have to go as far as turn him into Captain America.

    There has been no cigarette-smoking Bond since then because people became more reasonable and aware of the risks of smoking since then. I think that, upon a re-start of the franchise, one would find a way to leave this aspect out. If that happens, no-one will remember within a few years that a sizable part of the population smoked cigarettes. Or else, one might think of Bond telling a chain-smoking Bond Girl after a round of kissing, "You taste as if I'd been licking out an ashtray." That'll do the job.

    He told someone that he thought smoking cigarettes was a "filthy habit" a quarter of a century ago, and yet still occasionally someone says they think he should still smoke.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2023 Posts: 3,157
    'Neckbeard' - there's the henchman. Er, person.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited January 2023 Posts: 3,800
    A former Bond Girl as the main villain, her motive? Having a revenge against Bond, because she's heartbroken that after Bond worked with her on a mission, made love to her and bedded her, he'd left her the other day, and now she wants revenge, because she felt humiliated by this, like after helping Bond throughout his mission, having (sex) with Bond, he'd left her quickly.

    What's worse, this former Bond Girl fell in love with him for real and very deeply, and that breaks her heart more, because she fell in love with Bond, but Bond just bedded her and leave, she thought that she and Bond would create a long lasting relationship after working together on a mission, but after bedding her, Bond left her and went back to England.

    Now she wants revenge against Bond, she sent a bullet to MI6 carved with 007.

    Think of it like The Man With The Golden Gun but with Paris Carver as the villain.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,917
    mtm wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    My biggest “who cares?” is cigarettes. That was more common in the novels and 60s films. Aside from two cigars, Roger Moore’s Bond never smoked a cigarettes. Did that make him less Bondian? Dalton briefly brought back the cigs but like his tenure that ended abruptly Yet with Dalton they also deemphasized Bond’s womanizing. Did that make him a lesser Bond? Did Brosnan and Craig never lighting a cig ruin the sanctity of the character?

    In order to change Bond dramatically from his roots, they would have to go as far as turn him into Captain America.

    There has been no cigarette-smoking Bond since then because people became more reasonable and aware of the risks of smoking since then. I think that, upon a re-start of the franchise, one would find a way to leave this aspect out. If that happens, no-one will remember within a few years that a sizable part of the population smoked cigarettes. Or else, one might think of Bond telling a chain-smoking Bond Girl after a round of kissing, "You taste as if I'd been licking out an ashtray." That'll do the job.

    He told someone that he thought smoking cigarettes was a "filthy habit" a quarter of a century ago, and yet still occasionally someone says they think he should still smoke.

    Just last mission with a cigar he demanded -- and you're gonna smoke it!

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    Bond smoking cigarettes doesn't seem to be a problem for readers of the Dynamite comics, where he lights up multiple times. Severine smoking actually got more likes than critique here on this forum. I don't think he 'should absolutely' smoke, but it would be a welcome change for this ex-smoker if he chained Morlands on screen, wore a Rolex Explorer and reverted back to the taped-grip Beretta.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited January 2023 Posts: 701
    I wouldn't mind if Bond starting smoking again. It's a good example of the hard living side of his character. The mistake would be using an actual brand as sponsor, like Marlboro. Morlands are long gone so a name check would be pretty safe, or just any old anonymous brand he keeps in a case.

    Maybe the next actor could be introduced lighting up for somebody else and saying "Lovely habit".
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,216
    Unless it’s a period piece, I don’t really see the point of having Bond smoke again.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    About a third of the population still smoke though. It's not like anyone's suggesting he throw a trilby on the rack.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited January 2023 Posts: 701
    It's not as if it's totally uncommon in movies either, even ones set in present day.
  • Scaramanga1974Scaramanga1974
    Posts: 744
    I'm just want Bond26 to be great. Not bothered about so-called gen X, y or Z.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,602
    I think if he smoked today he'd look rather weak.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    mtm wrote: »
    I think if he smoked today he'd look rather weak.

    Agreed. Smoking is no longer aspirational, so it wouldn't work for Bond.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 701
    You could make the same argument that his drinking makes him look weak.
  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree
    edited January 2023 Posts: 784
    It did in SF. It all depends.
  • SilvermothSilvermoth Australia
    Posts: 27
    Gen z wants to see Bond vape
  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree
    Posts: 784
    Silvermoth wrote: »
    Gen z wants to see Bond vape

    Cringe
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,917
    I was gonna suggest some of them want Bond to die. But too late for that I guess.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,216
    Men smoking in the 1950s is obviously not the same thing as smoking today. That, and movies that do feature smoking tend to not romanticize it like older films. If anything they deglamorize it.

    That all said, I don’t think Bond should be aspirational. Part of what I loved about discovering the books for the first time is that Bond is a lot less likable, and the Craig films have certainly leaned more into that. Ironically, that’s how Craig made Bond cool again, it’s just different from how the Cubby era tended to idolize Bond in a sense. Like how in OCTOPUSSY when Bond enters the office we get a shot of Moneypenny and Smallbone sighing as if they saw the most wonderful thing they ever saw. I get it, subtlety isn’t exactly in the cinematic lexicon of OCTOPUSSY, but that kind of bit would feel too silly in a contemporary film.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited January 2023 Posts: 14,680
    The idea of Bond smoking making him look weak actually works for me. Here you have this man with the courage to take on the most dangerous adversaries and execute insane stunts, and then at the end of the day, after all the murder and mayhem, turns to his vices to soothe him. It's a nice balance. And everyone has their weaknesses.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,216
    If I showed Bond smoking in 2020s I would include a lot of scenes of him uncontrollably coughing and being told what an idiot he is for smoking.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    ByRoyalDecree wrote: »
    Silvermoth wrote: »
    Gen z wants to see Bond vape

    Cringe

    Ha ha.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    The criticism thrown Bond's way could make for some fun banter, with Q telling him to "grow up", or similar. There could be a running gag where Bond is shown to have a packet of three rings next to him, but everytime he goes to reach for one, he's interrupted, getting more frustrated with each attempt, before giving up and ultimately chucking the packet over his shoulder. You can show him to be a smoker without him doing it. Note how Domino in the film TB goes to light up a Gauloises on the beach, but is distracted by Bond mentioning her brother.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    Whatever they want to do with the character, I'll let them, they're still the Producers after all, they're the one who handles the Bond character and in charge.

    As a Gen-Z? If Bond smoking wouldn't work in today's world:

    1. I do also liked Bond to reduce kissing different women, we've seen this in The Living Daylights maybe a one woman Bond could somehow work? But I'm having a feeling that the Producers would really likely to do this, no minor or secondary Bond Girls, only the main ones, we could something like Paloma, those who will never kiss or seduce Bond.

    2. Then his drinking too, he could drink 3 shots, but that's the maximum, he should not be into the 'Booze' territory, I'm still wondering why Craig's Bond, despite of booze, never gets drunk or experiencing nausea or never have a liver problems. 😅
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited January 2023 Posts: 701
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Whatever they want to do with the character, I'll let them, they're still the Producers after all, they're the one who handles the Bond character and in charge.

    As a Gen-Z? If Bond smoking wouldn't work in today's world:

    1. I do also liked Bond to reduce kissing different women, we've seen this in The Living Daylights maybe a one woman Bond could somehow work? But I'm having a feeling that the Producers would really likely to do this, no minor or secondary Bond Girls, only the main ones, we could something like Paloma, those who will never kiss or seduce Bond.

    2. Then his drinking too, he could drink 3 shots, but that's the maximum, he should not be into the 'Booze' territory, I'm still wondering why Craig's Bond, despite of booze, never gets drunk or experiencing nausea or never have a liver problems. 😅

    Bond generally stuck to one woman in the novels so that wouldn't bother me. I do think Bond needs to have some sort of vice. It's symptomatic of the toll the job takes on him and shows he's human. I think audiences are savvy enough to recognise that even a glamorous and heroic character like Bond is not worth imitating beyond the superficial.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    Silvermoth wrote: »
    Gen z wants to see Bond vape

    What flavour? I think he'd be a Strawberry Jam type of guy.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Silvermoth wrote: »
    Gen z wants to see Bond vape

    What flavour? I think he'd be a Strawberry Jam type of guy.
    It's gotta be Tiptree Little Scarlet flavour.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,382
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Silvermoth wrote: »
    Gen z wants to see Bond vape

    What flavour? I think he'd be a Strawberry Jam type of guy.

    Broccoli.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 2,026
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Whatever they want to do with the character, I'll let them, they're still the Producers after all, they're the one who handles the Bond character and in charge.

    As a Gen-Z? If Bond smoking wouldn't work in today's world:

    1. I do also liked Bond to reduce kissing different women, we've seen this in The Living Daylights maybe a one woman Bond could somehow work? But I'm having a feeling that the Producers would really likely to do this, no minor or secondary Bond Girls, only the main ones, we could something like Paloma, those who will never kiss or seduce Bond.

    2. Then his drinking too, he could drink 3 shots, but that's the maximum, he should not be into the 'Booze' territory, I'm still wondering why Craig's Bond, despite of booze, never gets drunk or experiencing nausea or never have a liver problems. 😅

    I hope the series never reaches the point where Bond is limited to a prescribed number of kisses, sexual encounters, smokes, and drinks. I never lose sight of the fact that Bond is a fictional character. So I don't worry about his fictional lungs and fictional liver.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,216
    Funny thing about Dalton Bond not sleeping with as many women as other Bonds is that I think that was intentional. It wasn’t just the reaction to AIDS, but Fleming’s Bond wasn’t really that big of a man whore on the page. I think the closest he gets to that is in OHMSS where he sleeps with Ruby. Like Fleming Bond, Dalton was really more of a romantic who could easily get smitten.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,300
    I always find much of the early cinematic Bond's allure with women (ie. random receptionists swooning over him, him sleeping with several women per film in that carefree way) was more a result of the 'swinging 60s'. I think it was a conscious decision to craft a version of the character for the screen rather than trying to be true to the novels. Fleming's Bond did indeed like sleeping with women - certainly in a couple of instances he behaved towards them in a way that we'd consider inappropriate nowadays - but he was much more a product of the comparatively conservative 1950s than Connery's was. He was prone to falling in love, and even seemed to have a 'St. George' complex when it came to characters like Tracy which was acknowledged in the later novels.

    Honestly, there's plenty that can be done with those ideas, and arguably it'd be far more interesting exploring these traits with a modern version of Bond.
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