Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'd rather none of these characters die actually. If they are to be phased out, I think they should just do it quietly, like they did with Brandt.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd rather none of these characters die actually. If they are to be phased out, I think they should just do it quietly, like they did with Brandt.
    I still think he'll come back. Brandt, that is.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 4,617
    Brandt will come back IMHO.

    @bondjames - it shows that the crossover between superhero and MI team member can work

    McQ loves to play with the audience's expectations with sharp changes of pace. Pegg's death would provide him with some good options and also possible new character motivations (anger, grief, revenge) rather than "save the planet from nukes" which he cant use again, surely?

    Hamm is an interesting call. He has a 60s vibe/look about him but possible too old, they need some young blood.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2019 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd rather none of these characters die actually. If they are to be phased out, I think they should just do it quietly, like they did with Brandt.
    I still think he'll come back. Brandt, that is.
    I hope so. I read it was a scheduling conflict which prevented Renner from reprising the role for Fallout. He's good in that role. It suits him and he plays with the team and off Cruise well too.
    --

    @patb, I understand but I just don't like too much emotion in these spy based series. It changes the tone and makes it more difficult for me to revisit them. Fallout was just right on that front, but that's as far as I'll go with any emotion or 'grieving'. I like the light hearted nature of these films.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2019 Posts: 15,423
    Depends on how it's executed. If it's not nukes, it's something else. I'd rather they keep grief, anger and revenge away and focus on recreating the mind games to manipulate the odds into their favor, just like in the TV series. We had a lot of the aforementioned trio in the third film, and to a lesser extent in Fallout. I think we've seen enough, in my opinion.

    I'd also can the entire "going rogue because the bosses don't trust us" angle completely. So far, they treated every assignment like a rogue operation apart from the Chimera case.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    Depends on how it's executed. If it's not nukes, it's something else. I'd rather they keep grief, anger and revenge away and focus on recreating the mind games to manipulate the odds into their favor, just like in the TV series. We had a lot of the aforementioned trio in the third film, and to a lesser extent in Fallout. I think we've seen enough, in my opinion.

    I'd also can the entire "going rogue because the bosses don't trust us" angle completely. So far, they treated every assignment like a rogue operation apart from the Chimera case.

    M:I2 is the only non-rogue installment I can think of - even with the Chimera case, Ethan is framed and his superiors are trying to stop him.
  • Posts: 1,926
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Depends on how it's executed. If it's not nukes, it's something else. I'd rather they keep grief, anger and revenge away and focus on recreating the mind games to manipulate the odds into their favor, just like in the TV series. We had a lot of the aforementioned trio in the third film, and to a lesser extent in Fallout. I think we've seen enough, in my opinion.

    I'd also can the entire "going rogue because the bosses don't trust us" angle completely. So far, they treated every assignment like a rogue operation apart from the Chimera case.

    M:I2 is the only non-rogue installment I can think of - even with the Chimera case, Ethan is framed and his superiors are trying to stop him.
    Yeah, but it has that traitor in the organization thing that's plagued most if not all the films and the this time it's personal crap.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Depends on how it's executed. If it's not nukes, it's something else. I'd rather they keep grief, anger and revenge away and focus on recreating the mind games to manipulate the odds into their favor, just like in the TV series. We had a lot of the aforementioned trio in the third film, and to a lesser extent in Fallout. I think we've seen enough, in my opinion.

    I'd also can the entire "going rogue because the bosses don't trust us" angle completely. So far, they treated every assignment like a rogue operation apart from the Chimera case.
    M:I2 is the only non-rogue installment I can think of - even with the Chimera case, Ethan is framed and his superiors are trying to stop him.
    I don't think he was framed at all. In fact, when Commander Swanbeck sent for him, he told Ethan directly that he personally sent Ambrose to impersonate Hunt, so it was known to the agency that Hunt wasn't actually involved. Also considering there were no survivors on the plane to witness Hunt's face outside Ambrose's team, there wasn't anything to pin on Hunt.
  • Posts: 385
    patb wrote: »
    Hamm is an interesting call. He has a 60s vibe/look about him but possible too old, they need some young blood.

    It wouldn't be out of character for the franchise - Peter Graves looked older than Steven Hill.


    Even if Renner comes back, I can't see him replacing Cruise. I think Paramount would (rightly) be concerned about how he'd draw as the leading man after The Bourne Legacy. Hamm, I could see.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Depends on how it's executed. If it's not nukes, it's something else. I'd rather they keep grief, anger and revenge away and focus on recreating the mind games to manipulate the odds into their favor, just like in the TV series. We had a lot of the aforementioned trio in the third film, and to a lesser extent in Fallout. I think we've seen enough, in my opinion.

    I'd also can the entire "going rogue because the bosses don't trust us" angle completely. So far, they treated every assignment like a rogue operation apart from the Chimera case.
    M:I2 is the only non-rogue installment I can think of - even with the Chimera case, Ethan is framed and his superiors are trying to stop him.
    I don't think he was framed at all. In fact, when Commander Swanbeck sent for him, he told Ethan directly that he personally sent Ambrose to impersonate Hunt, so it was known to the agency that Hunt wasn't actually involved. Also considering there were no survivors on the plane to witness Hunt's face outside Ambrose's team, there wasn't anything to pin on Hunt.

    Ahhh, pfft, brain fart - I read "Chimera" and thought of the bio weapon from M:I3, and thus, thought you were discussing that. Totally forgot about the Chimera virus. My original thought still stands, that M:I2 is the only one that the team hasn't gone rogue to complete their mission (Ambrose does, but that's not part of the "team").
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    1. Mission Impossible (the doctor no of MI franchise)

    2. MI:3 (one of the best action movies of the past 15 years)

    3. MI:4 (great ensemble, but weak plot and villain)

    4. MI:6 (perfect epic scale, OHMSS of MI)

    5. MI:5 (very solid entry, unmemorable finale)

    6. MI:2 (DAD of MI movies, weak Gillian, boring, unmemorable plotline.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    I enjoy the racecourse scene in MI2.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film
  • Posts: 385
    Because it's more JJ Abrams nonsense. His schtick is getting old.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Because it's easily the most melodramatic which is irredeemably unnecessary. Much like Skyfall.
  • Posts: 1,926
    At the time, MI3 was a fresh approach to the series, especially after the mess that was 2. And Abrams was hot off Lost and Alias, so he was a good choice then.

    A criticism of MI, both the TV version and movies, is that you don't get to know the characters beyond their skills and MI3 was a chance to add more of that personal thing, which wasn't a big thing in movies at the time. I think it works fine for the one film and the action is memorable and fun, and Hoffman is probably the most memorable main villain in the series.

    If anything, the whole traitor in the organization premise is what feels stale with 3.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,722
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,245
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film

    Count me in; I'm a big fan of MI:3. What some call melodrama I see as an evolving of Ethan Hunt; by giving him a life away from the spy game it makes him a three dimensional character which separates him from others in the cinema spy pack.

    This said, they were very wise not to build on and deeply explore the personal aspect of Hunt in future films.


    For me, the franchise found its sweet spot with 3 , one that is still going strong.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,230
    talos7 wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film

    Count me in; I'm a big fan of MI:3. What some call melodrama I see as an evolving of Ethan Hunt; by giving him a life away from the spy game it makes him a three dimensional character which separates him from others in the cinema spy pack.

    This said, they were very wise not to build on and deeply explore the personal aspect of Hunt in future films.


    For me, the franchise found its sweet spot with 3 , one that is still going strong.

    Agreed. Very few, if any, of the subtle character work weaved into the stories of GHOST PROTOCOL, ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT would work as well without the heavy lifting done in the third film. I don't see it as melodramatic in the slightest, but even if someone does, it's at most a necessary evil that allowed the subsequent films to have a bit of depth without sacrificing any of their focus on thrills.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Thanks for this @DaltonCraig007. I'm looking forward to all her new films, and Morgana looks especially interesting.
    talos7 wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film

    Count me in; I'm a big fan of MI:3. What some call melodrama I see as an evolving of Ethan Hunt; by giving him a life away from the spy game it makes him a three dimensional character which separates him from others in the cinema spy pack.

    This said, they were very wise not to build on and deeply explore the personal aspect of Hunt in future films.


    For me, the franchise found its sweet spot with 3 , one that is still going strong.

    Agreed. Very few, if any, of the subtle character work weaved into the stories of GHOST PROTOCOL, ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT would work as well without the heavy lifting done in the third film. I don't see it as melodramatic in the slightest, but even if someone does, it's at most a necessary evil that allowed the subsequent films to have a bit of depth without sacrificing any of their focus on thrills.
    I have to admit that I remember being particularly relieved in the theatre in 2011 to see Julia only at the end (and similarly in 2018). Mention of her during the respective films made me a bit uncomfortable initially as I fearfully anticipated more tearful theatrics, but thankfully it never came.

    Looking back on it I have to agree with you that MI:3 did the heavy lifting. It's still the film I'm least interested in personally, but in retrospect I'm glad they dumped most of the domesticity into that one.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,245
    talos7 wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film

    Count me in; I'm a big fan of MI:3. What some call melodrama I see as an evolving of Ethan Hunt; by giving him a life away from the spy game it makes him a three dimensional character which separates him from others in the cinema spy pack.

    This said, they were very wise not to build on and deeply explore the personal aspect of Hunt in future films.


    For me, the franchise found its sweet spot with 3 , one that is still going strong.

    Agreed. Very few, if any, of the subtle character work weaved into the stories of GHOST PROTOCOL, ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT would work as well without the heavy lifting done in the third film. I don't see it as melodramatic in the slightest, but even if someone does, it's at most a necessary evil that allowed the subsequent films to have a bit of depth without sacrificing any of their focus on thrills.


    Spot on! Well said.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,230
    bondjames wrote: »
    Thanks for this @DaltonCraig007. I'm looking forward to all her new films, and Morgana looks especially interesting.
    talos7 wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film

    Count me in; I'm a big fan of MI:3. What some call melodrama I see as an evolving of Ethan Hunt; by giving him a life away from the spy game it makes him a three dimensional character which separates him from others in the cinema spy pack.

    This said, they were very wise not to build on and deeply explore the personal aspect of Hunt in future films.


    For me, the franchise found its sweet spot with 3 , one that is still going strong.

    Agreed. Very few, if any, of the subtle character work weaved into the stories of GHOST PROTOCOL, ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT would work as well without the heavy lifting done in the third film. I don't see it as melodramatic in the slightest, but even if someone does, it's at most a necessary evil that allowed the subsequent films to have a bit of depth without sacrificing any of their focus on thrills.
    I have to admit that I remember being particularly relieved in the theatre in 2011 to see Julia only at the end (and similarly in 2018). Mention of her during the respective films made me a bit uncomfortable initially as I fearfully anticipated more tearful theatrics, but thankfully it never came.

    Looking back on it I have to agree with you that MI:3 did the heavy lifting. It's still the film I'm least interested in personally, but in retrospect I'm glad they dumped most of the domesticity into that one.

    I'd be more likely to label M:I-2 as melodramatic, personally. The main reasoning for me is that I don't buy Ethan's relationship with Nyah as much as I do his relationship with Julia, so the more emotional/romantic aspects of that film ring hollow to me, and the Woo-isms compound that for me.

    But yes, I'm glad for M:I-3. The subsequent films wouldn't have been as interesting without knowing that side of Ethan's life. It's not something many action franchises can pull off very well, but it works here I think.

    McQuarrie also rounded off Julia's character pretty well in FALLOUT. Her arc makes sense and even though it's not a lovey dovey ending, I liked the sense of acceptance and growth that it gave to their relationship and it retroactively made M:I-3 even better for me in that sense.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2019 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Thanks for this @DaltonCraig007. I'm looking forward to all her new films, and Morgana looks especially interesting.
    talos7 wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe yeah I don’t understand why MI3 doesn’t get more fan gushing. It’s easily my favorite entry. It has everything I’m looking for in a MI film

    Count me in; I'm a big fan of MI:3. What some call melodrama I see as an evolving of Ethan Hunt; by giving him a life away from the spy game it makes him a three dimensional character which separates him from others in the cinema spy pack.

    This said, they were very wise not to build on and deeply explore the personal aspect of Hunt in future films.


    For me, the franchise found its sweet spot with 3 , one that is still going strong.

    Agreed. Very few, if any, of the subtle character work weaved into the stories of GHOST PROTOCOL, ROGUE NATION and FALLOUT would work as well without the heavy lifting done in the third film. I don't see it as melodramatic in the slightest, but even if someone does, it's at most a necessary evil that allowed the subsequent films to have a bit of depth without sacrificing any of their focus on thrills.
    I have to admit that I remember being particularly relieved in the theatre in 2011 to see Julia only at the end (and similarly in 2018). Mention of her during the respective films made me a bit uncomfortable initially as I fearfully anticipated more tearful theatrics, but thankfully it never came.

    Looking back on it I have to agree with you that MI:3 did the heavy lifting. It's still the film I'm least interested in personally, but in retrospect I'm glad they dumped most of the domesticity into that one.

    I'd be more likely to label M:I-2 as melodramatic, personally. The main reasoning for me is that I don't buy Ethan's relationship with Nyah as much as I do his relationship with Julia, so the more emotional/romantic aspects of that film ring hollow to me, and the Woo-isms compound that for me.

    But yes, I'm glad for M:I-3. The subsequent films wouldn't have been as interesting without knowing that side of Ethan's life. It's not something many action franchises can pull off very well, but it works here I think.

    McQuarrie also rounded off Julia's character pretty well in FALLOUT. Her arc makes sense and even though it's not a lovey dovey ending, I liked the sense of acceptance and growth that it gave to their relationship and it retroactively made M:I-3 even better for me in that sense.
    I agree on both your points. MI:2 was also quite melodramatic, but in a somewhat cheesy Hallmark Asian fashion (if I may say so). A bit like Face-Off was.

    My concerns with the relationship thing in MI:3 isn't so much with Monaghan but more with Cruise. I feel he overplays it, and to a degree reminds me of Brosnan in TWINE (I hope people forgive me for bringing up Brosnan negatively to make a point). To me at least, he comes across weak. If I want to see an agent emote (or even cry), I'd rather see Craig do it. Cruise is better being dapper and nonchalant, a groove he found perfectly in RN and GP imho. I feel conversely about Craig, who doesn't do that so well for me.

    I agree on the arc being completed nicely as well. They handled it as best they could and it worked.
  • Posts: 1,926
    If there was a time when MI seemed to copy Bond it was in MI2, which seemed to borrow a lot from GE. The Nyah relationship was quite forced and seemed an attempt to make Hunt more like Bond and in the process made him less interesting. At least Julia was an actual relationship and not just a mission-related fling type of thing. I just never bought the Nyah fascination or Hunt as suave ladies man.

    The car chase near the beginning really reminded me of the sequence with Xenia at the beginning of GE. and Ambrose being a competitive turncoat spouting lines like "I was always better" is a straight rip-off of Trevelyan.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If there was a time when MI seemed to copy Bond it was in MI2, which seemed to borrow a lot from GE. The Nyah relationship was quite forced and seemed an attempt to make Hunt more like Bond and in the process made him less interesting. At least Julia was an actual relationship and not just a mission-related fling type of thing. I just never bought the Nyah fascination or Hunt as suave ladies man.

    The car chase near the beginning really reminded me of the sequence with Xenia at the beginning of GE. and Ambrose being a competitive turncoat spouting lines like "I was always better" is a straight rip-off of Trevelyan.
    It's a sort of modern remake of Hitchock's Notorious with a layer of GE & some patented Woo flavour thrown in.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited January 2019 Posts: 2,541
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If there was a time when MI seemed to copy Bond it was in MI2, which seemed to borrow a lot from GE. The Nyah relationship was quite forced and seemed an attempt to make Hunt more like Bond and in the process made him less interesting. At least Julia was an actual relationship and not just a mission-related fling type of thing. I just never bought the Nyah fascination or Hunt as suave ladies man.

    The car chase near the beginning really reminded me of the sequence with Xenia at the beginning of GE. and Ambrose being a competitive turncoat spouting lines like "I was always better" is a straight rip-off of Trevelyan.

    Almost every mi film has try to copy bond that's why it hardly interest me but the only one that had rewatchabality was RN. Other than that I find most of the characters including Ethan dialogues or delivery cringe Worthy or laughable.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 5,767
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If there was a time when MI seemed to copy Bond it was in MI2, which seemed to borrow a lot from GE. The Nyah relationship was quite forced and seemed an attempt to make Hunt more like Bond and in the process made him less interesting. At least Julia was an actual relationship and not just a mission-related fling type of thing. I just never bought the Nyah fascination or Hunt as suave ladies man.

    The car chase near the beginning really reminded me of the sequence with Xenia at the beginning of GE. and Ambrose being a competitive turncoat spouting lines like "I was always better" is a straight rip-off of Trevelyan.
    Not that Trevelian´s line, "I was Always better" was a particular good one in the first place.

  • Posts: 5,767
    Almost every mi film has try to copy bond that's why it hardly interest me but the only one that had rewatchabality was RN. Other than that I find most of the characters including Ethan dialogues or delivery cringe Worthy or laughable.
    I cannot concur with that. RN and FO consciously ripped off Bond Scenes, but the other films only have in common with Bond that espionage and secret agents Play a huge role.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,245
    BT3366 wrote: »
    If there was a time when MI seemed to copy Bond it was in MI2, which seemed to borrow a lot from GE. The Nyah relationship was quite forced and seemed an attempt to make Hunt more like Bond and in the process made him less interesting. At least Julia was an actual relationship and not just a mission-related fling type of thing. I just never bought the Nyah fascination or Hunt as suave ladies man.

    The car chase near the beginning really reminded me of the sequence with Xenia at the beginning of GE. and Ambrose being a competitive turncoat spouting lines like "I was always better" is a straight rip-off of Trevelyan.

    Almost every mi film has try to copy bond that's why it hardly interest me but the only one that had rewatchabality was RN. Other than that I find most of the characters including Ethan dialogues or delivery cringe Worthy or laughable.

    Interesting, we must have watched entirely different films . ;)
  • Posts: 1,926
    I don't agree every MI film has tried to copy Bond. There are bound to be variations of stunts in all sorts of films.

    Bonds have done variations of earlier films over and over again for years and have borrowed from other films themselves, so I wouldn't exactly extend exclusivity. Some would call it inspired by.
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