Does anyone else consider SKYFALL a suitable end to the Craig run?

245

Comments

  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited November 2021 Posts: 693
    peter wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits… in that case Goldfinger should’ve been Connery’s last, For Your Eyes Only should’ve been Roger’s last, Tomorrow Never Dies should’ve been Brosnon’s last (in my opinion).

    Doesn’t all that sound absurd?

    The difference is that Craig was basically out after Spectre, and if the rumors are true, he came back to the role only when they offered him a planet's worth of cash and a promise that they'll kill off his Bond. The obvious question is why on Earth EON agreed to that when they had a satisfactory conclusion with Spectre's ending. If it takes all that to get your actor back into a role then you should really be looking for a replacement.

    So let me get this straight: You know that Craig was out and what dragged him back again was a boat load of cash and the promise they’d kill off his Bond.

    You know this because you have an “in” at EoN? Or are you piecing this together via the corporate media click-bait machine?

    No, I don't know that for sure, that's why I said "if the rumors are true."
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    They're just movies, so you're welcome to make that decision. I personally don't consider the Disney Star Wars movies or series canon, so power to ya.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    peter wrote: »
    Dan just didn't get/love Bond at all.
    He slit BOND'S wrists

    I’m really trying to understand this: how did Craig not get/love Bond in your opinion? What has he ever done to disrespect this character and the craft of acting? I
    It's my 'opinion' (and only that) that Dan last cared deeply during QOS where he & Forster were dealing with the writer's strike to somehow make a good movie. He saw SF as a good project. He felt SP was a slog. BUT, he's a professional, so he gave each his all.
    NTTD was the time for his character to die. Now he's free of it. No coming back.
    It was a job & a paycheck to him after he burned out on QOS.
    Again, this is just how I see it now, your mileage will invariably vary.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits… in that case Goldfinger should’ve been Connery’s last, For Your Eyes Only should’ve been Roger’s last, Tomorrow Never Dies should’ve been Brosnon’s last (in my opinion).

    Doesn’t all that sound absurd?

    The difference is that Craig was basically out after Spectre, and if the rumors are true, he came back to the role only when they offered him a planet's worth of cash and a promise that they'll kill off his Bond. The obvious question is why on Earth EON agreed to that when they had a satisfactory conclusion with Spectre's ending. If it takes all that to get your actor back into a role then you should really be looking for a replacement.

    So let me get this straight: You know that Craig was out and what dragged him back again was a boat load of cash and the promise they’d kill off his Bond.

    You know this because you have an “in” at EoN? Or are you piecing this together via the corporate media click-bait machine?

    No, I don't know that for sure, that's why I said "if the rumors are true."

    There just seems to be a lot of vitriol in quoting rumours — as if the rumours will support your thesis of disliking this film, actor, ending, or whatever.
    Who cares about rumours. You didn’t like whatever. That should be good enough.
    Personally I flipping loved the film from beginning to end. That’s me and I’m not wrong, and neither are you for disliking what you dislike.
    But bringing in rumours gleamed from click bait is just muddying waters and makes things too us vs them. And it shouldn’t be. You didn’t like it. I did . We can chat about the film and not assume motives of an actor or producer or director……
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    peter wrote: »
    Personally I flipping loved the film from beginning to end. That’s me and I’m not wrong, and neither are you for disliking what you dislike.
    Dan himself said he wanted his run to end as it did. As an actor, he wanted it to have impact I assume. And it did. Many love it, many don't. That's art for ya! Cheers.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    chrisisall wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Personally I flipping loved the film from beginning to end. That’s me and I’m not wrong, and neither are you for disliking what you dislike.
    Dan himself said he wanted his run to end as it did. As an actor, he wanted it to have impact I assume. And it did. Many love it, many don't. That's art for ya! Cheers.

    I've never heard Craig ever saying to the media that he wanted this ending!

    Beyond that, my point was: no one is wrong, no one is right... But bringing in clickbait rumours will muddy waters and will never lend to a debate.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    peter wrote: »

    I've never heard Craig ever saying to the media that he wanted this ending!
    Then you clearly haven't done much research on this- it's out there in interviews.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    chrisisall wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    I've never heard Craig ever saying to the media that he wanted this ending!
    Then you clearly haven't done much research on this- it's out there in interviews.

    He's never stated to the media he wanted his tenure to end in Bond's death.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2021 Posts: 8,188
    It was revealed that Craig already talked with EON about potentially killing his Bond way back when he was getting the part in 2005. It was always something he wanted to do. It almost happened with SP, but Broccoli felt it wasn’t right for that film so didn’t go for it. With NTTD, they all felt it was the right time to go for that ending.

    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    It was revealed that Craig already talked with EON about potentially killing his Bond way back when he was getting the part in 2005. It was always something he wanted to do. It almost happened with SP, but Broccoli felt it wasn’t right for that film so didn’t go for it. With NTTD, they all felt it was the right time to go for that ending.

    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!
    Good post. My opinion may have been altered by it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    It was revealed that Craig already talked with EON about potentially killing his Bond way back when he was getting the part in 2005. It was always something he wanted to do. It almost happened with SP, but Broccoli felt it wasn’t right for that film so didn’t go for it. With NTTD, they all felt it was the right time to go for that ending.

    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!

    “Revealed by” who? @MakeshiftPython
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    peter wrote: »
    It was revealed that Craig already talked with EON about potentially killing his Bond way back when he was getting the part in 2005. It was always something he wanted to do. It almost happened with SP, but Broccoli felt it wasn’t right for that film so didn’t go for it. With NTTD, they all felt it was the right time to go for that ending.

    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!

    “Revealed by” who? @MakeshiftPython

    Gregg Wilson There were three core elements from the original Purvis and Wade script that we wanted to keep. Since Bond retires at the end of Spectre we liked the idea of introducing a new 007; she’s competitive with Bond and represents the new guard at MI6. Secondly, the DNA-targeted poison was the core idea fr the threat. And lastly, we wanted a satisfying way for Bond to sacrifice himself at the end.

    Daniel Craig When I started as Bond on Casino Royale, one of the early discussions I had with Barbara and Michael was that I would like to kill off Bond when I finished.

    Barbara Broccoli We had considered killing Bond in Spectre, but decided against it.
  • Posts: 2,161
    Still not very clear cut.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!

    One of the fun things about a Bond movie for me was the fact that he always came out on top, (often literally!). With the latest movie, we're robbed of that feeling and I think it's understandable that some people feel cheated after sixty years.
    I'm not saying they 'shouldn't have done it', because it's their series and they can do what they want. What I am saying is I'm very disappointed they've done it. Not least because it makes no sense at all (seeing as it's not the last movie in the series).
    But really, I never wanted to see him die. Let's be honest, it all boils down to the fact that I never wanted to go to a cinema and watch Bond die. A heroes death or not, it's James Bond. I just didn't want them to go there. As Iggy sung, it's no fun.
    I don't think that people who wanted him to die are any less of a 'James Bond fan', but they certainly come at these movies a different way to me and the other 'vocal minority' here who have moaned about it.
    Some people got the movie they wanted, but I certainly didn't.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Fair enough. We all have our limitations.
  • SF's premise certainly works best for an actor ending his tenure rather than being the midway point it is. If they dropped the old/age angle then fine, it could work as any entry but such as it is, the film comes off as strange because it works perfectly as a closing chapter.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    So much vitriol for Craig on here. Crazy. People seem to forget that eon is a business and they do what is in their best interests. If it hadn't have felt right to them that they kill Bond for this tenure then they wouldn't have. It's really that simple.

    Also does this thread maybe require an NTTD spoiler warning?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited November 2021 Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    It was revealed that Craig already talked with EON about potentially killing his Bond way back when he was getting the part in 2005. It was always something he wanted to do. It almost happened with SP, but Broccoli felt it wasn’t right for that film so didn’t go for it. With NTTD, they all felt it was the right time to go for that ending.

    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!

    “Revealed by” who? @MakeshiftPython

    Gregg Wilson There were three core elements from the original Purvis and Wade script that we wanted to keep. Since Bond retires at the end of Spectre we liked the idea of introducing a new 007; she’s competitive with Bond and represents the new guard at MI6. Secondly, the DNA-targeted poison was the core idea fr the threat. And lastly, we wanted a satisfying way for Bond to sacrifice himself at the end.

    Daniel Craig When I started as Bond on Casino Royale, one of the early discussions I had with Barbara and Michael was that I would like to kill off Bond when I finished.

    Barbara Broccoli We had considered killing Bond in Spectre, but decided against it.

    Stupid me. I had read that recently, and dismissed as being a little bit of “we were always going to do this” kind of thing.

    But take them for their word: Craig said he wanted to do this back when he started and that was the plan all along, or it was close to happening in Spectre, fine, I accept what has now been written in history.

    In the end, I find it difficult that an actor as wealthy as Craig and who had gigs already lined up, would come back to a series he disliked and didn’t get merely to pad his bank account and have his death scene. This sounds more like frustrated fans reading clickbait and then using it to justify their immense dislike for the film, the ending, the actor.

  • edited November 2021 Posts: 12,837
    Also, you can both love the character and want to see them get a hero’s death. Wanting a character to die is not the same thing as hating Bond. That’s just silly. I’m sure Brosnan would have been game for that kind of ending. Actors love to depict death!

    Yeah, I love the character and I still wanted to see him die once I knew Craig was coming back for a fifth. It felt like a fitting ending to me.

    Craig is one of the most private and least media friendly actors to have ever played Bond. I don’t mean that in a derogratory way, I’d probably be the same in his shoes. But he clearly never enjoyed the celebrity that came with the role, which I don’t think has helped some people’s perception of him. But despite that, he did five films, happily staying associated with the role for 15 years, and he never once phoned it in.

    So, he clearly doesn’t hate the role imo. If he did, why would he have wanted so much creative control? Why would he care? If he really didn’t like Bond, he’d just have phoned it in like Connery did towards the end.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I really hate to say this and it would have gutted me back then, but I think SKYFALL probably should've been Craig's last film.
    We would have been on Aidan Turner's 3rd film by now and enjoying his Dalton like era had Eon skipped SP and NTTD.
    :)

    This is where I am. Perfect completion, Craig being the only actor to make a Bond trilogy and origin story. End on an extreme high note. Craig’s Bond is my favorite movie character of all-time. Spectre, to me, is yet another soft reboot (like Skyfall). Honestly, did we really need that? It makes Craig’s Bond seem somewhat schizophrenic in character nature. So instead we get what I’ve dubbed as “The Madeline Swann Duology.” Forget Bond, let’s tell the story of Madeline Swann. Insanity. Swann is a top 3 all-time worst Bond character, imo. Makes for a great yarn, no? Would’ve preferred Hardy to Turner, but anyways...
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,021
    To answer the title question, I don't feel that way, because thematic superflousness or not, NTTD is a much better Bond film, and I would rather see Craig leave on a better film than Skyfall.

    Edit 1: Also, not to get too specific since this is a non-spoiler thread, but for me, the ending of NTTD is much more touching than the ending of Skyfall.

    Edit 2: I would have even preferred Spectre as Craig's last Bond film than Skyfall.
  • Posts: 526
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?
  • Posts: 1,078
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?

    I think it's a trend now, to have a separate 'timeline' within a franchise. If they'd have killed Roger Moore's Bong off at the end of AVTAK, and bought Dalton in without any explanation at all, it wouldn't have worked for the majority of cinema goers. These days, it seems to not be a problem for most.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?

    If they'd have killed Roger Moore's Bong off at the end of AVTAK, and bought Dalton in without any explanation at all, it wouldn't have worked for the majority of cinema goers.

    He could have slipped in the shower when throwing the towel over Snooper, and knocked his head. Q would be to blame.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?

    If they'd have killed Roger Moore's Bong off at the end of AVTAK, and bought Dalton in without any explanation at all, it wouldn't have worked for the majority of cinema goers.

    He could have slipped in the shower when throwing the towel over Snooper, and knocked his head. Q would be to blame.
    And we could've had one fifth and final "OWWWWW" to wrap up the film, and the Moore era.

    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?
    Personally, I don't need a definitive ending. I just want the actor to go out on a high. That said, a definitive ending is an interesting idea for these films to explore. There are pleasures to be had both in continuity-heavy and narratively independent films.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 541
    Consider the POV of 2012-2013. Skyfall was massively successful commercially and Craig was lauded as one of the best Bond actors. It easily seemed feasible to have 2-3 more films.

    The only problem is that Spectre happened. But no one could've saw that trainwreck of a film coming.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Consider the POV of 2012-2013. Skyfall was massively successful commercially and Craig was lauded as one of the best Bond actors. It easily seemed feasible to have 2-3 more films.

    The only problem is that Spectre happened. But no one could've saw that trainwreck of a film coming.

    Not everyone considers SP a train wreck though... ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?

    I think it's a trend now, to have a separate 'timeline' within a franchise. If they'd have killed Roger Moore's Bong off at the end of AVTAK, and bought Dalton in without any explanation at all, it wouldn't have worked for the majority of cinema goers. These days, it seems to not be a problem for most.

    It’s been separate since CR. Why is it only hitting you NOW after 15 years? Why are you having so much difficulty trying to grasp the idea that there can be different iterations of a character in FICTION?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,552
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Consider the POV of 2012-2013. Skyfall was massively successful commercially and Craig was lauded as one of the best Bond actors. It easily seemed feasible to have 2-3 more films.

    The only problem is that Spectre happened. But no one could've saw that trainwreck of a film coming.

    I actually think the problems of Spectre could have been easy to predict.
    Setting up a new evil organization and archvillain in the Craig era, suddenly getting the rights back to Spectre/Blofeld in 2012, using this newly regained IP to lure Mendes back... The Writing's On the Wall one could say.
    And I'm with @chrisisall, if what he's saying is that he doesn't think the film is a trainwreck. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    And I'm with @chrisisall, if what he's saying is that he doesn't think the film is a trainwreck. ;)
    I just watched it the other night a couple of days after I watched NTTD.
    Just like the first time I saw SP in the theatre- it's not spectacular, but it is a lot of reasonably pleasant fun, to ME. I rank it somewhere around FYEO.
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