Does anyone else consider SKYFALL a suitable end to the Craig run?

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,552
    Good call. For me, it's "the whole is lesser than the sum of it's parts." There are so many great moments, IMO, but as a whole it's deeply flawed and it's hard not to see how easily they could have made it a better film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    SP is in the middle of my rankings. I’ve always liked it more than not. Could never understand the seeming disdain it got from some circles. I’ll easily take it over a good chunk of films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Good call. For me, it's "the whole is lesser than the sum of it's parts." There are so many great moments, IMO, but as a whole it's deeply flawed and it's hard not to see how easily they could have made it a better film.

    Every Bond movie could have been better in some way or other. Even the amazing LTK could have been better with a Barry score.... ;)
  • Posts: 2,161
    At least the ending of SP looks a whole lot better to me now.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    The ending of Sp is unearned to me because I didn’t believe for one second that these two fell in love.

    In NTTD Cary had a greater grasp and understanding of this relationship and he was better at setting obstacles for Bond, each one bigger and progressed the story forward to “that ending” that, to me, was justified and fully earned (especially when looking at it over a five film arc).

    Kudos to Cary et al. It was a huge film and they pulled it off with aplomb….
  • Posts: 387
    Cary and team have achieved the near impossible, which was to get out of the Spectre trench while still finishing the story. There's more chemistry between Craig and Seydoux in the pre-credits scene than in all Spectre.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Stamper wrote: »
    Cary and team have achieved the near impossible, which was to get out of the Spectre trench while still finishing the story. There's more chemistry between Craig and Seydoux in the pre-credits scene than in all Spectre.

    Absolutely, so…. I believed in their romance within the first seconds of NTTD. The same can’t be said with the entirety of Sp…

    And the magic of what Fukunaga pulled off was somehow giving relevancy to such a flawed predecessor while creating a new story that in the end threaded together conclusions for all plots of the four previous films.
  • Posts: 387
    Also I love how the pre-credits relate to what happened to Vesper. Remember how he acted in CR when he realised Vesper had hidden stuff from him and betrayed him. It totally makes his going crazy believable, especially after visiting the grave.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Stamper wrote: »
    Also I love how the pre-credits relate to what happened to Vesper. Remember how he acted in CR when he realised Vesper had hidden stuff from him and betrayed him. It totally makes his going crazy believable, especially after visiting the grave.

    And having it literally blow up in his face.

    Few things get under Bond’s skin, and THAT just flat out triggers him.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    At least the ending of SP looks a whole lot better to me now.

    Progress.... =D>
  • Posts: 16,169
    Birdleson wrote: »
    At least the ending of SP looks a whole lot better to me now.

    After this latest film I can now say I actually like the ending of SP. By comparison to NTTD, I now firmly believe the climactic ending of NSNA is a masterpiece.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    At least the ending of SP looks a whole lot better to me now.

    After this latest film I can now say I actually like the ending of SP. By comparison to NTTD, I now firmly believe the climactic ending of NSNA is a masterpiece.

    LOL, yeah... wink & all.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Nah, if Connery took a bullet to the head in NSNA it would rank #1 of all Bond films.

    That’s my only issue with NTTD, we didn’t see Bond as a corpse just to hammer in how utterly dead he is.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits…
    You SO can. And people DO. ;)

    In that case, Pierce Brosnan didn't make a single Bond film ;)
  • Posts: 16,169
    chrisisall wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    At least the ending of SP looks a whole lot better to me now.

    After this latest film I can now say I actually like the ending of SP. By comparison to NTTD, I now firmly believe the climactic ending of NSNA is a masterpiece.

    LOL, yeah... wink & all.

    In all seriousness, I think SPECTRE would have been the best entry to end Craig's run. I think it's the most cinematically classic of his films that gets better every time I pop it in.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    jobo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits…
    You SO can. And people DO. ;)

    In that case, Pierce Brosnan didn't make a single Bond film ;)

    TND is my 3rd favourite Bond. But if they don't exist for you, that's fine.
    NTTD & MR don't exist for me.
    We all have our own likes & dislikes here. ;)
  • Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits…
    You SO can. And people DO. ;)

    In that case, Pierce Brosnan didn't make a single Bond film ;)

    TND is my 3rd favourite Bond. But if they don't exist for you, that's fine.
    NTTD & MR don't exist for me.
    We all have our own likes & dislikes here. ;)

    Oh yes, they sure exist for me, just like all the other Bond films I don't particularly love.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    jobo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits…
    You SO can. And people DO. ;)

    In that case, Pierce Brosnan didn't make a single Bond film ;)

    TND is my 3rd favourite Bond. But if they don't exist for you, that's fine.
    NTTD & MR don't exist for me.
    We all have our own likes & dislikes here. ;)

    Oh yes, they sure exist for me, just like all the other Bond films I don't particularly love.

    ALL the others?
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    You can’t just pick what you perceive to be the actor’s last great film and say they should’ve called it quits…
    You SO can. And people DO. ;)

    In that case, Pierce Brosnan didn't make a single Bond film ;)

    TND is my 3rd favourite Bond. But if they don't exist for you, that's fine.
    NTTD & MR don't exist for me.
    We all have our own likes & dislikes here. ;)

    Oh yes, they sure exist for me, just like all the other Bond films I don't particularly love.

    ALL the others?

    You're nit picking on one word here.

    ALL the Bond films "exist" for me. I am less enamored of some (MR, DAD, SP) than of others. But NTTD seems to be tweaking some fans REALLY strongly; others are perhaps going a bit too far in their defense of the film. Let's all scale it back, okay gang? There will be another fellow coming along in a while; this sort of thing will never happen to him... ;)
  • Nah, if Connery took a bullet to the head in NSNA it would rank #1 of all Bond films.

    That’s my only issue with NTTD, we didn’t see Bond as a corpse just to hammer in how utterly dead he is.

    Lol what corpse? Bond got vaporised to the nth degree.
  • Posts: 2,161
    That was his point. There’s still teleportation, or some smoke and mirrors trickery to contend with.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    ALL the Bond films "exist" for me. I am less enamored of some (MR, DAD, SP) than of others. But NTTD seems to be tweaking some fans REALLY strongly; others are perhaps going a bit too far in their defense of the film. Let's all scale it back, okay gang? There will be another fellow coming along in a while; this sort of thing will never happen to him... ;)
    The next Bond actor will be perfect, and his films will be as well.
    No more soap opera, no years for prep & then seat of the pants film-making.
    Tim Dalton, de-aged will star, Campbell will direct, Arnold will score.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,566
    chrisisall wrote: »

    Tim Dalton, de-aged will star, Campbell will direct, Arnold will score.

    Arnold Schwarzenegger?

    And BTW, there's a script making the rounds in Hollywood with several classical composers featured as action heroes. Arnold quite likes the script; he's already called the producers and told them, "I'll be Bach."
  • chrisisall wrote: »

    Tim Dalton, de-aged will star, Campbell will direct, Arnold will score.

    Actually, your scenario still requires a scriptwriter. I suppose Richard Maibaum is coming back from the dead along with Bond himself?

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    chrisisall wrote: »

    Tim Dalton, de-aged will star, Campbell will direct, Arnold will score.

    Actually, your scenario still requires a scriptwriter. I suppose Richard Maibaum is coming back from the dead along with Bond himself?

    No, I'll be the writer.
    Don't ask, I won't tell..
  • Posts: 1,078
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?

    I think it's a trend now, to have a separate 'timeline' within a franchise. If they'd have killed Roger Moore's Bong off at the end of AVTAK, and bought Dalton in without any explanation at all, it wouldn't have worked for the majority of cinema goers. These days, it seems to not be a problem for most.

    It’s been separate since CR. Why is it only hitting you NOW after 15 years? Why are you having so much difficulty trying to grasp the idea that there can be different iterations of a character in FICTION?

    If I read a novel, and a character dies, then the next novel in the series, the character is back without explanation, I'd think that was a poor show, and I'd feel cheated. I can't see how films should be any different. Especially films made by the same studio and team. I'm well aware CR was an 'origin story', but by the end of SF everything was in so obviously put in place to make him the same Bond as the original series. Just different actors in the roles of Q, M, Moneypenny and Bond.
    As I keep saying, to invest any emotion in a fictional character, the story-teller has a responsibility to keep to a cohesive narrative. Killing off a main character and resurrecting them in the next episode of the series without explanation doesn't make sense, so therefore the reader/viewer feels cheated. And I can't understand why you don't.
  • Posts: 16,169
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »

    Tim Dalton, de-aged will star, Campbell will direct, Arnold will score.

    Actually, your scenario still requires a scriptwriter. I suppose Richard Maibaum is coming back from the dead along with Bond himself?

    No, I'll be the writer.
    Don't ask, I won't tell..

    Could you please write the gunbarrel in the beginning with the proper dots, blood, etc?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Killing off a main character and resurrecting them in the next episode of the series without explanation doesn't make sense, so therefore the reader/viewer feels cheated. And I can't understand why you don't.
    Yep.

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Who says it will be without explanation.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Seems that most on here wanted a “cast in stone” ending; be it good or bad. Why couldn’t Craig’s Bond simply just continue as all the others have done before? Why is a resolute ending so important now as it was never an issue before?

    I think it's a trend now, to have a separate 'timeline' within a franchise. If they'd have killed Roger Moore's Bong off at the end of AVTAK, and bought Dalton in without any explanation at all, it wouldn't have worked for the majority of cinema goers. These days, it seems to not be a problem for most.

    It’s been separate since CR. Why is it only hitting you NOW after 15 years? Why are you having so much difficulty trying to grasp the idea that there can be different iterations of a character in FICTION?

    If I read a novel, and a character dies, then the next novel in the series, the character is back without explanation, I'd think that was a poor show, and I'd feel cheated. I can't see how films should be any different. Especially films made by the same studio and team. I'm well aware CR was an 'origin story', but by the end of SF everything was in so obviously put in place to make him the same Bond as the original series. Just different actors in the roles of Q, M, Moneypenny and Bond.
    As I keep saying, to invest any emotion in a fictional character, the story-teller has a responsibility to keep to a cohesive narrative. Killing off a main character and resurrecting them in the next episode of the series without explanation doesn't make sense, so therefore the reader/viewer feels cheated. And I can't understand why you don't.

    Because I understand that Craig’s films were always conceptually in a separate bubble from the previous films. Just like how other iterations of fictional characters function in their own worlds. What I didn’t know was that Craig Bond would have a definite end rather than carry over with another actor.
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