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Tomorrow Never Dies: what went wrong?

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    Big fan of this film. It’s a blast to watch and feels even shorter than it’s run time. I think Brosnan gives his best performance in it as well.

    Brosnan has two of my favourite moments in this film. They don't mean much but when he's being informed about "an urgent phone call", he does that thing with the nod and smile that says "yeah right, I know what's about to happen but I'll play along." I just love that. And then of course his "I'm having a blast!" face during the parking lot chase.

    That's interesting that you mention the "urgent phone call" moment because that's always been one of my favorites too.

    I also love the fact that several heavies (literally) are going to rough up Bond in "a soundpwoof woom, Mista Bond" *points menacing fingers at him*; yet eventually Bond is going to take them all out. The other thug isn't worried meanwhile, so he just keeps watching Carver's speech. Then Bond takes his time to find the proper object, only to take the big guy out with one swift blow. Such good fun.
  • KillsProfessionalsKillsProfessionals
    Posts: 53
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    Big fan of this film. It’s a blast to watch and feels even shorter than it’s run time. I think Brosnan gives his best performance in it as well.

    Brosnan has two of my favourite moments in this film. They don't mean much but when he's being informed about "an urgent phone call", he does that thing with the nod and smile that says "yeah right, I know what's about to happen but I'll play along." I just love that. And then of course his "I'm having a blast!" face during the parking lot chase.

    That's interesting that you mention the "urgent phone call" moment because that's always been one of my favorites too.

    I also love the fact that several heavies (literally) are going to rough up Bond in "a soundpwoof woom, Mista Bond" *points menacing fingers at him*; yet eventually Bond is going to take them all out. The other thug isn't worried meanwhile, so he just keeps watching Carver's speech. Then Bond takes his time to find the proper object, only to take the big guy out with one swift blow. Such good fun.

    Another great moment. I feel that if I was with someone who had never seen Bond, and asked me to show them a film, Tomorrow Never Dies would be near the top of what I'm putting on. Just a fun Bond to watch.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    edited December 2021 Posts: 1,394
    Yeah Iv always loved that club fight.The way Brosnan acts when the shady guy says he has an “ urgent phone call “ is so cool.His reaction is like “ Suuuurrreee,il play along! “😃
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    Big fan of this film. It’s a blast to watch and feels even shorter than it’s run time. I think Brosnan gives his best performance in it as well.

    Brosnan has two of my favourite moments in this film. They don't mean much but when he's being informed about "an urgent phone call", he does that thing with the nod and smile that says "yeah right, I know what's about to happen but I'll play along." I just love that. And then of course his "I'm having a blast!" face during the parking lot chase.

    That's interesting that you mention the "urgent phone call" moment because that's always been one of my favorites too.

    I also love the fact that several heavies (literally) are going to rough up Bond in "a soundpwoof woom, Mista Bond" *points menacing fingers at him*; yet eventually Bond is going to take them all out. The other thug isn't worried meanwhile, so he just keeps watching Carver's speech. Then Bond takes his time to find the proper object, only to take the big guy out with one swift blow. Such good fun.

    Time... for... a station break. I LOL every time.
    If only Paris had been played by Monica Bellucci... but no Bond is perfect....
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    Big fan of this film. It’s a blast to watch and feels even shorter than it’s run time. I think Brosnan gives his best performance in it as well.

    Brosnan has two of my favourite moments in this film. They don't mean much but when he's being informed about "an urgent phone call", he does that thing with the nod and smile that says "yeah right, I know what's about to happen but I'll play along." I just love that. And then of course his "I'm having a blast!" face during the parking lot chase.

    That's interesting that you mention the "urgent phone call" moment because that's always been one of my favorites too.

    I also love the fact that several heavies (literally) are going to rough up Bond in "a soundpwoof woom, Mista Bond" *points menacing fingers at him*; yet eventually Bond is going to take them all out. The other thug isn't worried meanwhile, so he just keeps watching Carver's speech. Then Bond takes his time to find the proper object, only to take the big guy out with one swift blow. Such good fun.

    Time... for... a station break. I LOL every time.
    If only Paris had been played by Monica Bellucci... but no Bond is perfect....

    Would have classed the film up. Not a big fan of Lois Lane in this film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    Big fan of this film. It’s a blast to watch and feels even shorter than it’s run time. I think Brosnan gives his best performance in it as well.

    Brosnan has two of my favourite moments in this film. They don't mean much but when he's being informed about "an urgent phone call", he does that thing with the nod and smile that says "yeah right, I know what's about to happen but I'll play along." I just love that. And then of course his "I'm having a blast!" face during the parking lot chase.

    That's interesting that you mention the "urgent phone call" moment because that's always been one of my favorites too.

    I also love the fact that several heavies (literally) are going to rough up Bond in "a soundpwoof woom, Mista Bond" *points menacing fingers at him*; yet eventually Bond is going to take them all out. The other thug isn't worried meanwhile, so he just keeps watching Carver's speech. Then Bond takes his time to find the proper object, only to take the big guy out with one swift blow. Such good fun.

    Time... for... a station break. I LOL every time.
    If only Paris had been played by Monica Bellucci... but no Bond is perfect....

    Would have classed the film up. Not a big fan of Lois Lane in this film.

    At the time she was pretty happening. I never minded her in the role, she just wasn't the best possible choice.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    For me, TND has the best Brosnan fights. I love the fight in the sound booth, and later at the newspaper factory. Pure classic Bond, IMO.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,917
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Yeah Iv always loved that club fight.The way Brosnan acts when the shady guy says he has an “ urgent phone call “ is so cool.His reaction is like “ Suuuurrreee,il play along! “😃

    How cool would it have been if he just whipped out his cell phone and said "Have them call me on this."
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    I think with so much positivity towards this film in this thread,it should be renamed the Tomorrow Never Dies appreciation thread.The current thread title was just another case of Brosnan bashing on this site.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I think with so much positivity towards this film in this thread,it should be renamed the Tomorrow Never Dies appreciation thread.The current thread title was just another case of Brosnan bashing on this site.

    "Tomorrow Never Dies Bashing: What Went Wrong?" :))
  • KillsProfessionalsKillsProfessionals
    Posts: 53
    Always great to see any Brosnan appreciation :D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2021 Posts: 8,188
    Didn’t it already have an appreciation thread? Can’t there also be an in unappreciation thread? ;)
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    I am unsurprised. Always thought that a fair amount of the Brosnan Bashing was just an outgrowth of the need to lionize the current Bond, and that Pierce would be reappraised once Craig was no longer The Guy. In my mind, GE is Top 5 material and TND is a very good Bond flick. TWINE is very interesting but somewhat flawed, while DAD..... has some problems. Pierce is tied with Dalton for #3 Bond in my book (with Connery as #1 and Craig as #2.) I'm just holding my breath re: the inevitable Craig bashing (which is already under way. Just wait until the Next Fellow is announced!)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    Well, of course, Spectre is... ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    Well, of course, Spectre is... ;)

    LOL, will you be here all week? ;)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,553
    chrisisall wrote: »
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    Well, of course, Spectre is... ;)

    LOL, will you be here all week? ;)

    Lol, honestly, I doubt it.

    TWINE does make it into the category of Bond Films with Great Names for Villain's Lair with "Maiden's Tower", along with other exciting entries such as "St. Cyrils", "Piz Gloria", "The Haunting Face", etc.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    I actually do rank TWINE at the very bottom of my five.

    21. AVTAK
    22. TMWTGG
    23. DAD
    24. TND
    25. TWINE

    In contrast, GE is way up at #8. I wish Brosnan had as good or better with his subsequent films. And I know I’m not alone in thinking they’re disappointing, even Brosnan himself dismisses them.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    chrisisall wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    I think with so much positivity towards this film in this thread,it should be renamed the Tomorrow Never Dies appreciation thread.The current thread title was just another case of Brosnan bashing on this site.

    "Tomorrow Never Dies Bashing: What Went Wrong?" :))

    =)) Top notch, @chrisisall!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    I actually do rank TWINE at the very bottom of my five.

    21. AVTAK
    22. TMWTGG
    23. DAD
    24. TND
    25. TWINE

    In contrast, GE is way up at #8. I wish Brosnan had as good or better with his subsequent films. And I know I’m not alone in thinking they’re disappointing, even Brosnan himself dismisses them.

    You have DAD where I have SF. I think you like Brosnan even less than I like Craig...
  • KillsProfessionalsKillsProfessionals
    Posts: 53
    I was rearranging mine last night and had

    1. Tomorrow Never Dies
    2. GoldenEye
    8. The World Is Not Enough
    10. Die Another Day
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    I actually do rank TWINE at the very bottom of my five.

    21. AVTAK
    22. TMWTGG
    23. DAD
    24. TND
    25. TWINE

    In contrast, GE is way up at #8. I wish Brosnan had as good or better with his subsequent films. And I know I’m not alone in thinking they’re disappointing, even Brosnan himself dismisses them.

    You have DAD where I have SF. I think you like Brosnan even less than I like Craig...

    I’m pretty sure I made it clear it had nothing to do with Brosnan.

    The only Bond actor I don’t like in the role is Lazenby.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I’m pretty sure I made it clear it had nothing to do with Brosnan.
    3/4 of his (& only HIS) films suck though.
    Whatever.
    :P
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    I was rearranging mine last night and had

    1. Tomorrow Never Dies
    2. GoldenEye
    8. The World Is Not Enough
    10. Die Another Day

    I’d put TWINE over GE.I think GE is slightly overrated and the horrible score brings it down also ( though still a good film ).TWINE has its problems but I like the balance of serious drama,campiness,action and humour.

  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,270
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    I actually do rank TWINE at the very bottom of my five.

    21. AVTAK
    22. TMWTGG
    23. DAD
    24. TND
    25. TWINE

    In contrast, GE is way up at #8. I wish Brosnan had as good or better with his subsequent films. And I know I’m not alone in thinking they’re disappointing, even Brosnan himself dismisses them.

    You have DAD where I have SF. I think you like Brosnan even less than I like Craig...

    I’m pretty sure I made it clear it had nothing to do with Brosnan.

    The only Bond actor I don’t like in the role is Lazenby.

    How dare you diss the Laz. He’s coming for you now ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    007ClassicBondFan wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    I actually do rank TWINE at the very bottom of my five.

    21. AVTAK
    22. TMWTGG
    23. DAD
    24. TND
    25. TWINE

    In contrast, GE is way up at #8. I wish Brosnan had as good or better with his subsequent films. And I know I’m not alone in thinking they’re disappointing, even Brosnan himself dismisses them.

    You have DAD where I have SF. I think you like Brosnan even less than I like Craig...

    I’m pretty sure I made it clear it had nothing to do with Brosnan.

    The only Bond actor I don’t like in the role is Lazenby.

    How dare you diss the Laz. He’s coming for you now ;)

    In sped-up footage.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I’m pretty sure I made it clear it had nothing to do with Brosnan.
    3/4 of his (& only HIS) films suck though.
    Whatever.
    :P
    I’m more quick to blame Vic Armstrong!
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,270
    mattjoes wrote: »
    007ClassicBondFan wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    For me the Broz era bashing is well earned. GE is truly the only worthy film of his run. The rest of his run is unfortunately bottom of the barrel. Not at all Brosnan’s fault, I must stress. It wasn’t his fault that he was saddled with bad scripts.

    Lol, bottom, eh? So I guess MR, AVTAK & SP are all SOOOO much better than TWINE, right?

    I actually do rank TWINE at the very bottom of my five.

    21. AVTAK
    22. TMWTGG
    23. DAD
    24. TND
    25. TWINE

    In contrast, GE is way up at #8. I wish Brosnan had as good or better with his subsequent films. And I know I’m not alone in thinking they’re disappointing, even Brosnan himself dismisses them.

    You have DAD where I have SF. I think you like Brosnan even less than I like Craig...

    I’m pretty sure I made it clear it had nothing to do with Brosnan.

    The only Bond actor I don’t like in the role is Lazenby.

    How dare you diss the Laz. He’s coming for you now ;)

    In sped-up footage.

    With a voice dubbed by George Baker.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    KillsProfessionals wrote: »
    I was rearranging mine last night and had

    1. Tomorrow Never Dies
    2. GoldenEye
    8. The World Is Not Enough
    10. Die Another Day

    I’d put TWINE over GE.I think GE is slightly overrated and the horrible score brings it down also ( though still a good film ).TWINE has its problems but I like the balance of serious drama,campiness,action and humour.

    I’ve come to love Serra’s score. I think the cold, oppressive vibe of it gives the film a unique dark thriller sort of flavour, that suits it perfectly (especially the Russia scenes). The only bit I don’t like is the porn music during the Ferrari chase.

    And I don’t really do full rankings anymore, find it too hard, but the Brosnan films for me would be

    1. Goldeneye (stone cold classic)
    2. The World Is Not Enough (very underrated)
    3. Die Another Day (genuinely awful, but that can be fun in its own way)
    4. Tomorrow Never Dies (fine but boring, and full of wasted potential)
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