Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.

    Considering the subject at hand, I find that a confusing way of wording it ;-)

    @Creasy47 is an artist and was naturally keeping with the theme, and a play of words, @CommanderRoss ( 😂 😂 😂)

    Yeahhh, I'm an artist!

    And a poet and a gentleman, @Creasy47 😂

    You're a gentleman yourself, @peter.

    Only when my mother is watching, @Creasy47 !
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,597
    My dream ending to the film would have been Madeline telling Mathilde about Bond James Bond in the car, leading then to a montage of the stories she's telling her of Craig's Bond while he was alive, carrying out missions we never saw him do, audacious stunts and supercool things. Unzipping a wetsuit with a dinner jacket underneath, skiing off a mountain, waterskiing behind a plane, piloting a space shuttle etc. all with the Bond theme blaring at full blast.
    Sad because he's dead, but uplifting because he was brilliant.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    mtm wrote: »
    My dream ending to the film would have been Madeline telling Mathilde about Bond James Bond in the car, leading then to a montage of the stories she's telling her of Craig's Bond while he was alive, carrying out missions we never saw him do, audacious stunts and supercool things. Unzipping a wetsuit with a dinner jacket underneath, skiing off a mountain, waterskiing behind a plane, piloting a space shuttle etc. all with the Bond theme blaring at full blast.
    Sad because he's dead, but uplifting because he was brilliant.

    That's a bit fun! But that would betray the Craig Era is reboot kind of thing, it's a separate continuity from the Classic Era.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited July 2023 Posts: 9,511
    Oh damn, @mtm ... I really love this idea. Wow.

    Edit: I get your perspective @SIS_HQ ,but it doesn't have to be a betrayal to Craig Bond. Recreating some of the classics as Craig (although I'd take out the space shuttle), I think could be a celebration not only of Craig-Bond and his conclusion, but a celebration of the character of Bond, James Bond...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,597
    peter wrote: »
    Oh damn, @mtm ... I really love this idea. Wow.

    Edit: I get your perspective @SIS_HQ ,but it doesn't have to be a betrayal to Craig Bond. Recreating some of the classics as Craig (although I'd take out the space shuttle), I think could be a celebration not only of Craig-Bond and his conclusion, but a celebration of the character of Bond, James Bond...

    Yeah exactly, I think that would have been rather perfect. And leaving the cinema with a bounce in your step is good; and happy sadness is a thing. Kind of like those big triumphant swinging sequences they used to end the Spider Man films on. Although it obviously would have cost a bomb!
    Maybe you could have done it like Spidey in fact: a big oner shot following Bond, in tux, getting out of his Aston, taking down a load of baddies, doing something cool, sipping a martini, then turning to the camera and shooting.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @mtm … as an artist, do you see the above as animated? Even in the style of CR’s opening credits? I just got a flash of what you said as an animated conclusion…. 🤔 (?)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Oh wow, that's an interesting thought. I guess maybe you could do it in the style of Kleinman's CR titles to bring it full circle: I always loved the way those ended on a big massive close up of Craig as Bond- these films should be about fetishising how cool 007 is.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Agree 100% @mtm …. I loved your idea , and then when you added to it, I literally saw a flash of animation, add the Bond theme blaring…. Perhaps a fan-project for the future, 😂???
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Ha! I don't have the talent for that; maybe we'll be able to get AI to do it in a couple of months! :D
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    mtm wrote: »
    Ha! I don't have the talent for that; maybe we'll be able to get AI to do it in a couple of months! :D

    You may be right on that…
  • Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    My dream ending to the film would have been Madeline telling Mathilde about Bond James Bond in the car, leading then to a montage of the stories she's telling her of Craig's Bond while he was alive, carrying out missions we never saw him do, audacious stunts and supercool things. Unzipping a wetsuit with a dinner jacket underneath, skiing off a mountain, waterskiing behind a plane, piloting a space shuttle etc. all with the Bond theme blaring at full blast.
    Sad because he's dead, but uplifting because he was brilliant.

    That would have been a slight improvement over what we got, but the only ending I would have been truly happy with would have been a proper adapted last chapter of YOLT, including an amnesia ridden Bond sailing off into the sunset.

    Second favourite to that ending - once the camera pulls out from the Aston Martin driving away at the end, we see a silhouette stood high up among the mountains looking down watching the car, but the figure isn't revealed.

    Either of those 2 endings would have improved the film massively.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,186
    Showing Craig's Bond in truly Bondian and stylish shots that were never in any of his five Bond films, as Madeleine tells Mathilde about him, would have been really cool.
    I also feel this might have been the film the gunbarrel sequence was needed more at the end, so the film ends on a high note, despite Bond's death.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    mtm wrote: »
    My dream ending to the film would have been Madeline telling Mathilde about Bond James Bond in the car, leading then to a montage of the stories she's telling her of Craig's Bond while he was alive, carrying out missions we never saw him do, audacious stunts and supercool things. Unzipping a wetsuit with a dinner jacket underneath, skiing off a mountain, waterskiing behind a plane, piloting a space shuttle etc. all with the Bond theme blaring at full blast.
    Sad because he's dead, but uplifting because he was brilliant.

    That would have been a slight improvement over what we got, but the only ending I would have been truly happy with would have been a proper adapted last chapter of YOLT, including an amnesia ridden Bond sailing off into the sunset.

    Second favourite to that ending - once the camera pulls out from the Aston Martin driving away at the end, we see a silhouette stood high up among the mountains looking down watching the car, but the figure isn't revealed.

    Either of those 2 endings would have improved the film massively.

    I like the @mtm idea as it gives creedance to the 'Bond saga' idea, in which Bond stories are told (and thus the continuous time-changes are adressed as well) and all future films can be incorporated into Criag's stories, just as much as the earlier films can. They hinted at that in NTTD anyway, when he started out with the DB5 and then got to the V8 Vantage.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,186
    I think if the V8 and the Valhalla had action scenes, NTTD would have made a Billion.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    mtm wrote: »
    My dream ending to the film would have been Madeline telling Mathilde about Bond James Bond in the car, leading then to a montage of the stories she's telling her of Craig's Bond while he was alive, carrying out missions we never saw him do, audacious stunts and supercool things. Unzipping a wetsuit with a dinner jacket underneath, skiing off a mountain, waterskiing behind a plane, piloting a space shuttle etc. all with the Bond theme blaring at full blast.
    Sad because he's dead, but uplifting because he was brilliant.

    That would have been a slight improvement over what we got, but the only ending I would have been truly happy with would have been a proper adapted last chapter of YOLT, including an amnesia ridden Bond sailing off into the sunset.

    Second favourite to that ending - once the camera pulls out from the Aston Martin driving away at the end, we see a silhouette stood high up among the mountains looking down watching the car, but the figure isn't revealed.

    Either of those 2 endings would have improved the film massively.

    The amnesia angle may have been interesting, indeed, although I like @mtm's idea as well. A proper YOLT ending would certainly have pleased many of us, I guess. But what about general audiences? I can imagine that if the Craig era had ended where the Bourne films began, many would have been left confouded, no? Still, I think I would have loved it.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,477
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Oh damn, @mtm ... I really love this idea. Wow.

    Edit: I get your perspective @SIS_HQ ,but it doesn't have to be a betrayal to Craig Bond. Recreating some of the classics as Craig (although I'd take out the space shuttle), I think could be a celebration not only of Craig-Bond and his conclusion, but a celebration of the character of Bond, James Bond...

    Yeah exactly, I think that would have been rather perfect. And leaving the cinema with a bounce in your step is good; and happy sadness is a thing. Kind of like those big triumphant swinging sequences they used to end the Spider Man films on. Although it obviously would have cost a bomb!
    Maybe you could have done it like Spidey in fact: a big oner shot following Bond, in tux, getting out of his Aston, taking down a load of baddies, doing something cool, sipping a martini, then turning to the camera and shooting.

    The goal of Craig was not to have an audience bouncing out with a celebration. He and the producers wanted to kill the character. To this day I can't figure out why Craig had such a hard on to do this and why Babs and Michael would go along with this. Though part of me is going to enjoy the corner they've painted themselves into and the hoops they will have trying to explain how a dead character is back to life. LOL!

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    Well, I could only think of one thing:

    Read: 007 Legends
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 698
    I agree that they should have just adapted YOLT's ending. Craig's Bond getting shot in the head and living out the rest of his days as an amnesiac with a girl on an island, finally free of Vesper and his tragic past (but with a hope that he might actually regain his memory in the future), would have been a great send-off for Craig's Bond. It would close his story and allow for another "continuity" while not damaging the character. Hell, it would have even thematically tied into Spectre's torture scene and retroactively made that scene better. There were a million things they could have done for Craig's final film and they chose to do everything wrong instead.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I agree that they should have just adapted YOLT's ending. Craig's Bond getting shot in the head and living out the rest of his days as an amnesiac with a girl on an island, finally free of Vesper and his tragic past (but with a hope that he might actually regain his memory in the future), would have been a great send-off for Craig's Bond. It would close his story and allow for another "continuity" while not damaging the character. Hell, it would have even thematically tied into Spectre's torture scene and retroactively made that scene better. There were a million things they could have done for Craig's final film and they chose to do everything wrong instead.

    Hear! Hear! I agree with this!

    And I can see how good it is in my mind, and in the opening of the new Bond actor is to adapt the opening with that Brainwashing sequence of Bond at the start of TMWTGG book.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Showing Craig's Bond in truly Bondian and stylish shots that were never in any of his five Bond films, as Madeleine tells Mathilde about him, would have been really cool.
    I also feel this might have been the film the gunbarrel sequence was needed more at the end, so the film ends on a high note, despite Bond's death.

    Yeah, gunbarrel at the end would have been good, definitely.
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I agree that they should have just adapted YOLT's ending. Craig's Bond getting shot in the head and living out the rest of his days as an amnesiac with a girl on an island, finally free of Vesper and his tragic past (but with a hope that he might actually regain his memory in the future), would have been a great send-off for Craig's Bond.

    But they’d already adapted the YOLT ending and done this in Skyfall, I think it would have been repetitive to do it again.
    Also of course if Bond is alive it means that little girl is in danger of a horrible grisly death in the film as it is, so a lot would have to be changed.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 698
    mtm wrote: »
    But they’d already adapted the YOLT ending and done this in Skyfall, I think it would have been repetitive to do it again.

    They repeated the same story three times from SF to NTTD: wounded villain from the past comes back seeking revenge.
    Also of course if Bond is alive it means that little girl is in danger of a horrible grisly death in the film as it is, so a lot would have to be changed.

    Obviously major aspects of the movie would need to be reworked.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2023 Posts: 6,379
    mtm wrote: »
    Showing Craig's Bond in truly Bondian and stylish shots that were never in any of his five Bond films, as Madeleine tells Mathilde about him, would have been really cool.
    I also feel this might have been the film the gunbarrel sequence was needed more at the end, so the film ends on a high note, despite Bond's death.

    Yeah, gunbarrel at the end would have been good, definitely.
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I agree that they should have just adapted YOLT's ending. Craig's Bond getting shot in the head and living out the rest of his days as an amnesiac with a girl on an island, finally free of Vesper and his tragic past (but with a hope that he might actually regain his memory in the future), would have been a great send-off for Craig's Bond.

    But they’d already adapted the YOLT ending and done this in Skyfall, I think it would have been repetitive to do it again.
    Also of course if Bond is alive it means that little girl is in danger of a horrible grisly death in the film as it is, so a lot would have to be changed.

    A Reason to Die.

    This is the reason.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    I don't know if No Time to Die had the best ending in the franchise, but it definitely had the **most** ending in the franchise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,597
    slide_99 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    But they’d already adapted the YOLT ending and done this in Skyfall, I think it would have been repetitive to do it again.

    They repeated the same story three times from SF to NTTD: wounded villain from the past comes back seeking revenge.

    Well sure, you could say that many of the Bond films have repeated the ‘wealthy industrialist attempts to take over the world’ thing, but that’s a bit less exact than adapting the fake out death of Bond from YOLT, complete with him living on an idyllic beach in secret and M writing up his obituary.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @slide_99 is an authority on a film they've never watched before....
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I personally would have preferred the more ambiguous ending, mainly for the repeat viewings. Last time I watched NTTD, I turned it off before Safin shot him. I don't enjoy seeing Bond get obliterated, I felt the shot itself was unnecessary.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited July 2023 Posts: 2,186
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I personally would have preferred the more ambiguous ending, mainly for the repeat viewings. Last time I watched NTTD, I turned it off before Safin shot him. I don't enjoy seeing Bond get obliterated, I felt the shot itself was unnecessary.

    Yeah, an ambiguous ending would have been much better and would have demanded repeat viewings. You're not alone. I also don't like watching Safin shooting Bond, because for a clever spy like Bond, it's really embarrassing watching that moment. Because Bond usually observes his surroundings in true spy fashion, before making a move. It explains why he usually inspects his hotel rooms, before settling down.
    They should have found a way for Safin to infect Bond differently. I feel they should have been an inventive hide-and-seek moment between Bond and Safin. Maybe through a complex maze designed by Safin, then in the process, he infects Bond and Bond kills him without getting injured. Then a Bond that's not wounded, stands up like a hero and waits for the missiles to rain down on him without fear.
    Also, Zimmer's Final Ascent fits the moment, but I would have loved to hear the Bond theme....even if it was a poignant or bitter-sweet rendition or better still the usual bullish version of the Bond theme, to close-off the last seconds of Bond.
    I don't like the idea of Bond dying, but I think there were better ways of doing it, to make it look more heroic. I still feel a director like Martin Campbell would have done Bond's death better.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I completely agree on all points mate. I think it was a thankless and near impossible task to try to end a Bond film with James Bond's death and importantly make it satisfying. I'm just jealous of people who get something from it honestly.

    When I watch it now, the moment the blast doors close again I'm pulled out the film. I don't see my favourite Bond's heroic final moments, I see Daniel Craig getting his own way of killing off my favourite character. Believe me when I tell you I wish I didn't feel like that, because I think he'll always be my favourite Bond
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,600
    I would have gone with the YOLT amnesia ending as well. Smartblood or the EMP watch worked as a temporary solution for Heracles while a permanent solution was figured out.
  • Posts: 4,299
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I personally would have preferred the more ambiguous ending, mainly for the repeat viewings. Last time I watched NTTD, I turned it off before Safin shot him. I don't enjoy seeing Bond get obliterated, I felt the shot itself was unnecessary.

    Yeah, an ambiguous ending would have been much better and would have demanded repeat viewings. You're not alone. I also don't like watching Safin shooting Bond, because for a clever spy like Bond, it's really embarrassing watching that moment. Because Bond usually observes his surroundings in true spy fashion, before making a move. It explains why he usually inspects his hotel rooms, before settling down.
    They should have found a way for Safin to infect Bond differently. I feel they should have been an inventive hide-and-seek moment between Bond and Safin. Maybe through a complex maze designed by Safin, then in the process, he infects Bond and Bond kills him without getting injured. Then a Bond that's not wounded, stands up like a hero and waits for the missiles to rain down on him without fear.
    Also, Zimmer's Final Ascent fits the moment, but I would have loved to hear the Bond theme....even if it was a poignant or bitter-sweet rendition or better still the usual bullish version of the Bond theme, to close-off the last seconds of Bond.
    I don't like the idea of Bond dying, but I think there were better ways of doing it, to make it look more heroic. I still feel a director like Martin Campbell would have done Bond's death better.

    For better or for worse they went with the ending they did, and they clearly wanted that finality to the Craig era. I must admit though, on my first viewing it felt like there were beats and set ups to things that just didn't seem to come. The emphasis on the smart blood, Bond's vital signs etc. Maybe it's just me. I don't know, I was almost expecting a scene at the end where Q is in his lab staring at Bond's vitals, and M or Moneypenny enter. Some back and forth about how potentially he could have gotten out before they admit Bond's gone and leave. The camera slowly tracks towards the screen, the Bond theme quietly starts to build up until a single 'beep' and we cut to black. Almost Inception-esque I guess.

    I get what they were trying to do with the final confrontation between Bond and Safin. Safin's a physically weak villain, and despite getting shot, Bond is able to break his arm. It's an uncannily cruel way for a Bond villain to die. One almost feels bad for Safin. He wasn't born a monster but became one because of SPECTRE. But still, he's doomed Bond to his fate. The problem is his character has gone so off the rails at this point and the little monologue he gives about heartbreak is so flowery, vague and cringeworthy, that for me the impact is lessened. I dunno, if Safin had been more upset, asked Bond why he couldn't just appreciate what he was doing as both men have had their lives ruined by SPECTRE, maybe it would have had more impact. I mean, that's actually the one thing these two men actually have in common. It's all very interesting but the way it's executed lessens it for me.
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