James Bond books edited to remove racist references

1679111215

Comments

  • Posts: 17,756
    A bit late to this thread and the news about the upcoming reissued editions of the Fleming books. I'm missing some of the titles in my collection, so if I want to purchase paperback, hardcover and Kindle editions of the books, which will be the final (?) releases with unedited material?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited March 2023 Posts: 7,551
    Some publisher may decide to publish uncensored versions in the future (will this still be possible?), otherwise I’d go with Folio for hardcover. Expensive, but should last you a lifetime.
  • Posts: 12,473
    Those Folio ones are beautiful, sheesh. If I had more spare money I’d upgrade.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    There are plenty of good second-hand copies available in shops and online. The UK copies at least always have the original unexpurgated text. I always tend to prefer the older copies myself as their cover art is far superior to that of today and the yellowing pages take me back to the era they are set in like nothing else. Think of them as a sort of literary time machine.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    I've got all of them in a (supposedly) uncensored printed version (different ones) and also have a downloaded version from that Canadian site that works on my Kindle app (on my Windows PCs), so I don't really care to buy another print version. It's strictly the content that counts for me, not the packaging. The days of destroying literary works of art by burning the books are fortunately over. There will always be an original version available somewhere.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I've got all of them in a (supposedly) uncensored printed version (different ones) and also have a downloaded version from that Canadian site that works on my Kindle app (on my Windows PCs), so I don't really care to buy another print version. It's strictly the content that counts for me, not the packaging. The days of destroying literary works of art by burning the books are fortunately over. There will always be an original version available somewhere.

    Not if the book burners burn the servers...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    chrisisall wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I've got all of them in a (supposedly) uncensored printed version (different ones) and also have a downloaded version from that Canadian site that works on my Kindle app (on my Windows PCs), so I don't really care to buy another print version. It's strictly the content that counts for me, not the packaging. The days of destroying literary works of art by burning the books are fortunately over. There will always be an original version available somewhere.

    Not if the book burners burn the servers...

    In the current age of toppling statutes and whitewashing over the past I'm afraid I'm not so sure about books not bring hurled into the flames again. History does have a worrying tendency to repeat itself.
  • Posts: 17,756
    Some publisher may decide to publish uncensored versions in the future (will this still be possible?), otherwise I’d go with Folio for hardcover. Expensive, but should last you a lifetime.

    As pointed out by @FoxRox the Folio editions are expensive, but understandably so. If the titles are all still available, I might try and collect them all over time.

    @Dragonpol Second hand is also an option, of course. Might be lucky and find some near perfect copies of more recent releases too.
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 2,918
    ...so if I want to purchase paperback, hardcover and Kindle editions of the books, which will be the final (?) releases with unedited material?

    If you're in the US, any editions from 2002 onward should have the complete texts. That includes any releases by Penguin and the Thomas & Mercer editions. The latter are probably the final releases of the unedited books. If you're in the UK, any editions before this year should be fine--I think the Vintage paperbacks were the most recent.
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 17,756
    Revelator wrote: »
    ...so if I want to purchase paperback, hardcover and Kindle editions of the books, which will be the final (?) releases with unedited material?

    If you're in the US, any editions from 2002 onward should have the complete texts. That includes any releases by Penguin and the Thomas & Mercer editions. The latter are probably the final releases of the unedited books. If you're in the UK, any editions before this year should be fine--I think the Vintage paperbacks were the most recent.

    I have a few of the UK Vintage Classics books, and would love to complete my set of those. I see they're out of stock on several sites, so I guess used editions are my best chance.

    If looking at US editions, the Thomas & Mercer editions might be the ones to go for.
  • Posts: 2,918
    Over on the Absolutely James Bond forum, the excellent Caractacus Potts has revealed an interesting discovery:

    Indigo, Canada's largest bookshop chain, has been been publishing its own editions of Fleming for a few years now. Indigo's edition of Live and Let Die reprints the original British text, and presumably so do the rest.

    The covers share a generically minimalist template:

    1.jpg

    Here's what you see in the first few pages:

    31297471006_3.jpg

    I presume the fourth paragraph is boilerplate legalese dropped into every book Indigo publishes. Its only legal standing would be to prohibit literal reproduction of the Indigo edition rather than its text, which presumably has been unaltered by the company. Now if Indigo had added material to the Bond books, it could copyright those editions and slap on stickers proclaiming "Now with EXTRA Sex, Snobbery, and Sadism!"
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    Revelator wrote: »
    Over on the Absolutely James Bond forum, the excellent Caractacus Potts has revealed an interesting discovery:

    Indigo, Canada's largest bookshop chain, has been been publishing its own editions of Fleming for a few years now. Indigo's edition of Live and Let Die reprints the original British text, and presumably so do the rest.

    The covers share a generically minimalist template:

    1.jpg

    Here's what you see in the first few pages:

    31297471006_3.jpg

    I presume the fourth paragraph is boilerplate legalese dropped into every book Indigo publishes. Its only legal standing would be to prohibit literal reproduction of the Indigo edition rather than its text, which presumably has been unaltered by the company. Now if Indigo had added material to the Bond books, it could copyright those editions and slap on stickers proclaiming "Now with EXTRA Sex, Snobbery, and Sadism!"

    So if I'm in the U.S., even if I email that address, they won't sell and ship me copies?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited March 2023 Posts: 7,551
    I worked at Indigo when these editions came out. The colour circle on the front is a hole in the cover, that when opened, reveals a map of where the story largely takes place, fairly cool. I actually had no idea if these were censored or not but I’m glad they don’t appear to be (I’ll check later today for sure).

    I’ve only got Goldfinger in this edition, because I left the copy I was reading at home one day.

    @Revelator if you want me to do any Indigo based research, let me know! I’m always near one.
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 2,918
    LucknFate wrote: »
    So if I'm in the U.S., even if I email that address, they won't sell and ship me copies?

    I made a pretend order and it looks like Indigo will ship to the U.S. However, shipping is $19.67, which costs more than the book!
    I worked at Indigo when these editions came out. The colour circle on the front is a hole in the cover, that when opened, reveals a map of where the story largely takes place, fairly cool. I actually had no idea if these were censored or not but I’m glad they don’t appear to be (I’ll check later today for sure).

    I’ve only got Goldfinger in this edition, because I left the copy I was reading at home one day.

    @Revelator if you want me to do any Indigo based research, let me know! I’m always near one.

    Thanks very much for your report (the maps sound neat!) and the kind offer. I'm actually more interested in this annotated edition of Casino Royale, which can't be shipped outside Canada. If you ever encounter it, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited March 2023 Posts: 7,551
    Inside of the Goldfinger copy:

    336358520_588654229952737_9101987431898831050_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=Ri4em6Btiw8AX98Qb8F&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AfAhDdoyDpeN0y0Nd-PPibucCzUv_NtEq8ZnDFXUrz3wjg&oe=64186CBB
    Revelator wrote: »

    Copy secured!
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I'd love to get some Folios, but they're 100 a pop after shipping to the USA. :(
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I found out you can turn off 'automatic book updates' on Amazon Kindle. So go ahead, push out these 'new' versions. I won't get them!
  • Posts: 17,756
    I found out you can turn off 'automatic book updates' on Amazon Kindle. So go ahead, push out these 'new' versions. I won't get them!

    Where do you find this option, @brinkeguthrie?
    ________

    Lost a bidding on a complete set of Pan Books on Ebay yesterday, which would have completed my collection of Ian Fleming Bond books (in various releases). I also lost a bidding on a hardback release of OHMSS, but I didn't expect to have the winning bid on either listing. I did however buy Pan Books releases of OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG – as well as The Diamond Smugglers (also a Pan Books release), in what looked to be books of decent condition overall. I'll see when I get them.

    With shipping, the total is probably a bit more than I would like to pay, but at least I didn't have to bid for them. That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited March 2023 Posts: 9,041
    That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.
    I have this 2006 Penguin edition, and it is sort of redundant for me as I also have a book containing all of Fleming's short stories:
    optld1bdlq.jpg
    If you're interested, drop me a PM. Postage to Norway should be only EUR 3,70 10.99.
    EDIT: I just found out that since 2019, you can only send documents, but no more books as a "letter" from Germany, so it must be a "small package". And unfortunately a small package to Norway costs EUR 10.99, as I found out by deciphering the DHL shipping price lists.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited March 2023 Posts: 3,789
    https://hexiva.tumblr.com/post/639873292334956544/i-have-now-read-every-single-one-of-ian-flemings/amp
    Inside of the Goldfinger copy:

    336358520_588654229952737_9101987431898831050_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=Ri4em6Btiw8AX98Qb8F&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AfAhDdoyDpeN0y0Nd-PPibucCzUv_NtEq8ZnDFXUrz3wjg&oe=64186CBB
    Revelator wrote: »

    Copy secured!

    That quote from Fleming, Very Bondian!

    Some love is fire, some love is rust. But the finest, cleanest love is lust
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 17,756
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.
    I have this 2006 Penguin edition, and it is sort of redundant for me as I also have a book containing all of Fleming's short stories:
    optld1bdlq.jpg
    If you're interested, drop me a PM. Postage to Norway should be only EUR 3,70 10.99.
    EDIT: I just found out that since 2019, you can only send documents, but no more books as a "letter" from Germany, so it must be a "small package". And unfortunately a small package to Norway costs EUR 10.99, as I found out by deciphering the DHL shipping price lists.

    Thank you very much for the offer @j_w_pepper, I really appreciate it, but I just managed to secure a 60's Pan Books copy of OP before I saw this. Maybe someone else here on this thread would like a 2006 Penguin edition!
  • Posts: 6,709
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    https://hexiva.tumblr.com/post/639873292334956544/i-have-now-read-every-single-one-of-ian-flemings/amp
    Inside of the Goldfinger copy:

    336358520_588654229952737_9101987431898831050_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=Ri4em6Btiw8AX98Qb8F&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AfAhDdoyDpeN0y0Nd-PPibucCzUv_NtEq8ZnDFXUrz3wjg&oe=64186CBB
    Revelator wrote: »

    Copy secured!

    That quote from Fleming, Very Bondian!

    Some love is fire, some love is rust. But the finest, cleanest love is lust

    With so many brilliant lines like that, one has to be the worst pair of writers in the world not to include them in the films.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I found out you can turn off 'automatic book updates' on Amazon Kindle. So go ahead, push out these 'new' versions. I won't get them!

    Where do you find this option, @brinkeguthrie?
    ________

    Lost a bidding on a complete set of Pan Books on Ebay yesterday, which would have completed my collection of Ian Fleming Bond books (in various releases). I also lost a bidding on a hardback release of OHMSS, but I didn't expect to have the winning bid on either listing. I did however buy Pan Books releases of OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG – as well as The Diamond Smugglers (also a Pan Books release), in what looked to be books of decent condition overall. I'll see when I get them.

    With shipping, the total is probably a bit more than I would like to pay, but at least I didn't have to bid for them. That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.

    "Content and devices/preferences"
  • Posts: 17,756
    I found out you can turn off 'automatic book updates' on Amazon Kindle. So go ahead, push out these 'new' versions. I won't get them!

    Where do you find this option, @brinkeguthrie?
    ________

    Lost a bidding on a complete set of Pan Books on Ebay yesterday, which would have completed my collection of Ian Fleming Bond books (in various releases). I also lost a bidding on a hardback release of OHMSS, but I didn't expect to have the winning bid on either listing. I did however buy Pan Books releases of OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG – as well as The Diamond Smugglers (also a Pan Books release), in what looked to be books of decent condition overall. I'll see when I get them.

    With shipping, the total is probably a bit more than I would like to pay, but at least I didn't have to bid for them. That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.

    "Content and devices/preferences"

    Is this an option on the device itself? I don't have my Kindle in front of me right now.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited March 2023 Posts: 4,585
    chrisisall wrote: »
    For some reason I thought these new Fleming editions were the same as the Fleming-approved US edits?

    The 2019 Folio edition is true to the UK version, including the (quite harmless) Carl Van Vechten chapter title nod.
    I think they're all true to the UK firsts, I've read them all except the current FYEO, and couldn't find any difference.

    Niggerheaven.jpg

    My U.S. Berkley 80's edition has chapter 5 as 'Seventh Avenue' and I'm more than okay with that since the author himself okayed it.

    My edition of LALD (T&M, 2012) has the chapter titles indicated in the photo.

    I have given my two cents on this matter, here and there, and will strongly stand by it: the edits were approved by the Fleming Estate, who has sole rights to do so. I can't think of anyone else better suited to make such changes, based on what they know of Ian's own intentions. Their public statement makes this clear.

    I really believe people are making a bigger deal out of this than need be. From my understanding, this is the Fleming estate's last big opportunity to make some $ before the books go into public domain--in some places, they already have. It's partly a marketing ploy. I have all of 007 novels, in editions I enjoy, and have no need to purchase the 70th. My guess is, this is also the case with most Bond fans.

    If you don't want the edited books, then don't buy them. It's that simple, really. And there are plenty of ways to get ahold of earlier editions.

    The Fleming Estate's decision on these edits is not a sign of the apocalypse.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    TripAces wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    For some reason I thought these new Fleming editions were the same as the Fleming-approved US edits?

    The 2019 Folio edition is true to the UK version, including the (quite harmless) Carl Van Vechten chapter title nod.
    I think they're all true to the UK firsts, I've read them all except the current FYEO, and couldn't find any difference.

    Niggerheaven.jpg

    My U.S. Berkley 80's edition has chapter 5 as 'Seventh Avenue' and I'm more than okay with that since the author himself okayed it.

    My edition of LALD (T&M, 2012) has the chapter titles indicated in the photo.

    I have given my two cents on this matter, here and there, and will strongly stand by it: the edits were approved by the Fleming Estate, who has sole rights to do so. I can't think of anyone else better suited to make such changes, based on what they know of Ian's own intentions. Their public statement makes this clear.

    I really believe people are making a bigger deal out of this than need be. From my understanding, this is the Fleming estate's last big opportunity to make some $ before the books go into public domain--in some places, they already have. It's partly a marketing ploy. I have all of 007 novels, in editions I enjoy, and have no need to purchase the 70th. My guess is, this is also the case with most Bond fans.

    If you don't want the edited books, then don't buy them. It's that simple, really. And there are plenty of ways to get ahold of earlier editions.

    The Fleming Estate's decision on these edits is not a sign of the apocalypse.

    A good, measured response that makes a lot of sense.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I found out you can turn off 'automatic book updates' on Amazon Kindle. So go ahead, push out these 'new' versions. I won't get them!

    Where do you find this option, @brinkeguthrie?
    ________

    Lost a bidding on a complete set of Pan Books on Ebay yesterday, which would have completed my collection of Ian Fleming Bond books (in various releases). I also lost a bidding on a hardback release of OHMSS, but I didn't expect to have the winning bid on either listing. I did however buy Pan Books releases of OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG – as well as The Diamond Smugglers (also a Pan Books release), in what looked to be books of decent condition overall. I'll see when I get them.

    With shipping, the total is probably a bit more than I would like to pay, but at least I didn't have to bid for them. That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.

    "Content and devices/preferences"

    Is this an option on the device itself? I don't have my Kindle in front of me right now.

    No, you just click OFF at the source on the Amazon website. Shuts down all updates to any devices you have.
  • Posts: 17,756
    I found out you can turn off 'automatic book updates' on Amazon Kindle. So go ahead, push out these 'new' versions. I won't get them!

    Where do you find this option, @brinkeguthrie?
    ________

    Lost a bidding on a complete set of Pan Books on Ebay yesterday, which would have completed my collection of Ian Fleming Bond books (in various releases). I also lost a bidding on a hardback release of OHMSS, but I didn't expect to have the winning bid on either listing. I did however buy Pan Books releases of OHMSS, YOLT and TMWTGG – as well as The Diamond Smugglers (also a Pan Books release), in what looked to be books of decent condition overall. I'll see when I get them.

    With shipping, the total is probably a bit more than I would like to pay, but at least I didn't have to bid for them. That leaves me with finding Octopussy and The Living Daylights.

    "Content and devices/preferences"

    Is this an option on the device itself? I don't have my Kindle in front of me right now.

    No, you just click OFF at the source on the Amazon website. Shuts down all updates to any devices you have.

    Ah, found it in the end. Thanks!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I still have an idea to get an iPad and put all the novels / films on it for quick reference... I wonder if Apple Books has some similar auto-update feature... probably does.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    TripAces wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    For some reason I thought these new Fleming editions were the same as the Fleming-approved US edits?

    The 2019 Folio edition is true to the UK version, including the (quite harmless) Carl Van Vechten chapter title nod.
    I think they're all true to the UK firsts, I've read them all except the current FYEO, and couldn't find any difference.

    Niggerheaven.jpg

    My U.S. Berkley 80's edition has chapter 5 as 'Seventh Avenue' and I'm more than okay with that since the author himself okayed it.

    My edition of LALD (T&M, 2012) has the chapter titles indicated in the photo.

    I have given my two cents on this matter, here and there, and will strongly stand by it: the edits were approved by the Fleming Estate, who has sole rights to do so. I can't think of anyone else better suited to make such changes, based on what they know of Ian's own intentions. Their public statement makes this clear.

    I really believe people are making a bigger deal out of this than need be. From my understanding, this is the Fleming estate's last big opportunity to make some $ before the books go into public domain--in some places, they already have. It's partly a marketing ploy. I have all of 007 novels, in editions I enjoy, and have no need to purchase the 70th. My guess is, this is also the case with most Bond fans.

    If you don't want the edited books, then don't buy them. It's that simple, really. And there are plenty of ways to get ahold of earlier editions.

    The Fleming Estate's decision on these edits is not a sign of the apocalypse.

    I agree that this is a fine response.
Sign In or Register to comment.