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EON, doing Bond films that make Die Another Day seem like a masterpiece since 2012....
Add to that of him easily falling in love to a woman he'd just met for few days even without knowing her deeply (Madeleine Swann in SPECTRE and maybe even Vesper).
His constant pinning to those woman he barely knew at all, and he'd just met for days.
It's what you call Love at First Sight, and it's been an element of movies forever. I can't understand why, in OHMSS, he fell in love with that ultimately psychologically disturbed Theresa either, nor with Vesper, really. I don't know if the Madeleine story had to be continued from SP, just as I'm ambivalent about the attempt to crowd the entire Craig films together into a continuing story, which clearly wasn't intended when they made CR. But ok, it makes sense under the cirumstances that he had a deeper relationship with Madeleine. She's probably the sanest of the three of his "true love interests" in question.
It's fine to take it that way, but it's not the only way to interpret it and it's not the only version of it the film presents; and I do find that the nature of her past relating so closely to what Bond chooses to do does make it an uncomfortable moment.
Well I don't think he's exactly fallen in love with her, no...
And he is using her to get to Silva: that is literally the plot of the film. She is a lead to him. But she is also very damaged and a victim of sexual abuse. Bond knowing this actually makes it feel slightly more uncomfortable.
You say I added to the backstory, but I'm unclear where you're saying I've done that? Everything you posted from the film above is what I described.
Isn't that the same thing? Choosing to read a scene in a particular way even though it's not in the script or (in my opinion) communicated on screen?
Regardless of what is or isn't implied in the film, Bond wasn't invited, and she wasn't even aware of his presence, so you can't really say it was on her own terms. Yes, she reciprocates quite quickly, but it was still a gamble on Bond's part how she would react to a man, much bigger and stronger than she is, coming in unannounced and putting his hands on her naked body without her permission.
Also, the fact that he does all this knowing where she's come from, it all comes off a bit gross and doesn't reflect well on Bond at all (as @mtm pointed out).
But she didn't make a choice. It's not patronising to point out that she wasn't given the chance to consent until she was already in a vulnerable position (naked and in a confined space).
So Bond comes along, yet another MI6 agent promising to free her from the last one who promised to free her, and uses her for sex as well. He’s not exactly showing much care for a clearly very damaged and abused person, and she’s so used to giving herself to these men it’s debatable as to how much she wants to.
It's possible, but it's much more natural and human to assume that this woman, watched wherever she goes and visibly shaking with fear, is at very high risk of being damaged and vulnerable, and so it's natural not to take advantage just in case. Saying 'well she's got a glass of champagne out so she must be fine and over all of that pesky child abuse stuff' whilst unzipping one's flies is perhaps not the way to go if one wants to be entirely sure that one is not exploiting and damaging her further.
Is it possible that she must be enjoying intimacy on her own terms just because that's how you read the scene?
So a kind of quickly-cut opening of him sleepwalking through his office life which involves just the hint of bringing home or leaving from hotel rooms with various women could be an easy way to bring that part of the character in a bit more. Maybe even a little editing trick where we see him get into a hotel room with one woman and then cut to him leaving another hotel room with another women in the background, just to show that time is going on and willing it to go faster so he can get back to his next mission.
To me, one of the great underrated moments of Craig's run is Mathis and him arriving in Bolivia which culminates in him sleeping with Agent Fields. Everything before they arrive at the hotel suite is gold, but then he strides in there, does his little check of the place and then just goes "I can't find the stationary. Can you come and help me look?" from the bedroom. Perfect. It's of course complicated by her later death, but in that moment it's just two insanely attractive people deciding they might as well have sex in this huge luxury hotel suite..
And was Severine disappointed Bond didn’t arrive because she wouldn’t be able to sleep with him, or; was she disappointed because that was her chance of getting Silva killed (and subsequently escaping her life as a prisoner)?
I think it’s the latter @CrabKey …
And I’m saying this as one who, admittedly loves this sequence between them. I love their meeting, I love their discussion at the bar, and I love Bond showing up in her cabin.
But I don’t kid myself; this woman has a history of abuse as a child. And like a child, she makes a deal with a man, as she has always made a deal with many others before James Bond came along: by using her sex, her flesh.
Also, may I ask what the big spaces are all about under your posts? Are they spaces left clear for note taking or something? :D
Seriously, his female characters are retrograde.
Well, that’s quite a long time..? How long is it okay to have suffered through that? And she’s clearly not exactly free under Silva, and she’s older than 13 in the film. So the film presents us with a woman who has been exploited… since age 13 at least.
Do you think a woman in the sex trade who was then removed from it and imprisoned by an insane murderer is likely to be just fine? She’s literally shaking when we see her. The film does not present her as being strong and independent. She’s terrified and desperate.
And importantly: even if she isn’t- Bond knows she’s a victim of the sex trade. If you respect and care for someone who has gone through that, you don’t try and sleep with her ten minutes after you’ve met her. It’s kind of the worst thing you can do in fact.
So you would ignore a person’s past, not play it safe that they are as damaged as they appear to be, and see it as fine for someone to sleep with a victim of sexual abuse just because they put a glass of champagne out?
The film clearly presents her as damaged and vulnerable, moreso even than Vesper, who Bond was way more sympathetic with.
Personally, I think it’s wiser not to see a woman as being just fine before I sleep with her and get what I want with her, rather than being cautious and mindful that she may well be as extremely damaged as she appears to be.
It really was just a joke, sorry if it upset you.
Most people will watch a film and decide on how the characters behave based upon how real people react in the situations presented.
If say Bond burst out laughing hysterically when M was briefing him about the agents’ identities going missing you wouldn’t need a character in the film to spell out in words that he’s unhinged, surely? Your thoughts and actions in real life would be enough to be able to piece that together without it being spoon fed, surely?
You haven’t answered many of my points, incidentally.
WTF were they thinking there?
I'd hate that movie too, if Bond had had a chance to save her.... but yeah, I never thought of that. Good call.
I’ll say Adams’ character had the more effective death for me however. Her just sitting dead with no reaction is absolutely chilling, and the way Lee and Moore carry on a casual conversation afterwards with her corpse next to them makes it more effective for me.
TMWTGG is arguably the oddest of the Bond movies- Serious? Silly? Chilling? Exciting? Stupid? Dark? Crazy? Perverse? Mix in Sheriff Pepper and a slide whistle and you have a very strange concoction indeed. I love it.
The Bond who cared for and understand Vesper, is different from the Bond who treated Severine, and I don't know why (much more problematic as he's played by the same actor).
A strong indication that Bond was a bit inconsistent as a character.
Yeah that is horrible. Although I watched it the other day, and the idea that Scaramanga and Nick Nack hadn't looked on the floor for the Solex did stick out as particularly silly! :) It's right there! Are they blind?!
Golden Gun is probably the worst of the Bonds in terms of its treatment of women though: Andrea is trapped by FS (and he's really creepy to her, with all of the rubbing his gun on her stuff) and then patronised and slapped about by Bond; and Goodnight is shown to be a total moron who makes most of the bad things happen in the film due to her incompetence. Bond is a bit of a slimeball to both of them.
He's using her, yes. But she is a damaged person, and what he does is likely damaging her even more.
Well as Peter points out: it's more of a transaction. She asks Bond if he will kill Silva: that is her primary desire. She's used to using her body as collateral and this appears to be more of the same. It's quite sad, really.
I don't get as much of a bad smell with Lucia: she's a strong mature woman who seems to be genuinely horny for Bond. It's one of the sexier moments in a Bond film, I would say.
All of this could've been avoided if the writing had spelled it out, perhaps by Severine instigating the sex and Bond saying something to the effect of 'you don't have to - that's not what this is' and then maybe Severine saying 'I want to' - which would demonstrate clearly that she did have agency and wasn't being further damaged by the encounter (if she was telling the truth about wanting to...!). But part of the richness and appeal is being able to think through the intricacies that aren't made explicit on-screen, no? It don't half cause some ructions when one person's head canon clashes with another's, though, eh!