Would you rather run into Fields at the airport OR Paloma at a bar?

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,390
    I have some trouble with QOS and with MR. In terms of the specific character MR definitely neutered whatever threat Jaws may have had. No kills by Jaws and no real menace, almost a road runner coyote dynamic between him and Bond. The only scene that was a bit creepy was the Rio alley scene and even that ends up being played for some laughs.

    QOS has editing issues and some weird sequences, but I can't fault Mr. White or his portrayal. The Tosca Opera sequence is bloody brilliant and brings me joy to experience it even though I know what is coming.

    I am going with a re-watch of QOS and the line "Tosca isn't for everyone." Mr. White was a highlight for that movie for me!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,531
    Since the question seems to be leaning more to which film preferred over which returning villain preferred, I'll go with MR. Only just though - both films have a brilliance about them that some struggle to see. If we're talking who is the better villain in their second film, then QOS's Mr White trumps MR's Jaws. Although, of course, Jaws would return as a villain again in several of the video games, somewhat earning back his henchman cred.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Mr. White for me... I really thought we were heading in the direction of our new Blofeld with this character...
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    thedove wrote: »
    Would you rather watch the second film to feature Jaws MR OR the second film to feature Mr. White QOS?

    Definitely the second film to feature Jaws MR since it's my favorite Moore Bond film while I'm definitely not a fan of QOS.

    Note: if the question was the first film to feature Jaws TSWLM OR the first film to feature Mr. White CR'06 instead my vote would most likely go the other way i.e. in favor of Mr. White.

  • Posts: 1,969
    A villain portrayed by Richard Kiel could have proved quite menacing, but apparently silliness was needed, hence Jaws. Physically imposing with enough body strength to dispatch almost anyone, but no, steel teeth and death by biting. Of course we never see Jaws wiping his face after. Jaws typifies my disappointment with the RM series. It has always seemed a parody to me. Amusing and entertaining in its own way, but really nothing serious going on. No real threat to Bond.

    Mr. White has a much better storyline, even though it feels a bit stitched together to get to the end.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    thedove wrote: »
    Would you rather watch the second film to feature Jaws MR OR the second film to feature Mr. White QOS?
    I'm not a QOS hater but used to be an MR denier who was converted, and I infinitely prefer a rewatch of MR rather than one of QOS, since MR is a whole lot of more fun to watch.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,787
    CrabKey wrote: »
    A villain portrayed by Richard Kiel could have proved quite menacing, but apparently silliness was needed, hence Jaws. Physically imposing with enough body strength to dispatch almost anyone, but no, steel teeth and death by biting. Of course we never see Jaws wiping his face after. Jaws typifies my disappointment with the RM series. It has always seemed a parody to me. Amusing and entertaining in its own way, but really nothing serious going on. No real threat to Bond.

    Mr. White has a much better storyline, even though it feels a bit stitched together to get to the end.

    Yes, this.
    It felt cartoonish to me, there's no threat or menace whatsoever, when he's supposed to be.

    And even the character, as in the paper wasn't menacing really, the way he's structured, his looks, his appearance, it's not menacing, whereas if one may compare him to the likes of Red Grant, Oddjob, May Day, Mr. Hinx, Stamper/Necros, Chang or even Gobinda, there's an air of threat or danger, their looks alone might make you believe that they could kill and in a scary way and Jaws is a stuff toy compared to them.

    Even Xenia Onatopp looked dangerous compared to Jaws.

    Watching him biting people with his metallic teeth? His height? It doesn't threatened me, nor it scares me.

    Iconic, yes, but in terms of his role as a henchman, there's no danger in anything that he's in, he lacked some qualities that a henchman should have, he's the henchman that should not be taken seriously.

    Why many people liked him? Simple, because he's fun, iconic, and there's the nostalgia factor, but that's it, he's not what I qualify to be an effective henchman.

    Like what I've said, he's more like Pleasance's Blofeld to me, iconic, yet not threatening or dangerous.
  • Posts: 15,096
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    A villain portrayed by Richard Kiel could have proved quite menacing, but apparently silliness was needed, hence Jaws. Physically imposing with enough body strength to dispatch almost anyone, but no, steel teeth and death by biting. Of course we never see Jaws wiping his face after. Jaws typifies my disappointment with the RM series. It has always seemed a parody to me. Amusing and entertaining in its own way, but really nothing serious going on. No real threat to Bond.

    Mr. White has a much better storyline, even though it feels a bit stitched together to get to the end.

    Yes, this.
    It felt cartoonish to me, there's no threat or menace whatsoever, when he's supposed to be.

    And even the character, as in the paper wasn't menacing really, the way he's structured, his looks, his appearance, it's not menacing, whereas if one may compare him to the likes of Red Grant, Oddjob, May Day, Mr. Hinx, Stamper/Necros, Chang or even Gobinda, there's an air of threat or danger, their looks alone might make you believe that they could kill and in a scary way and Jaws is a stuff toy compared to them.

    Even Xenia Onatopp looked dangerous compared to Jaws.

    Watching him biting people with his metallic teeth? His height? It doesn't threatened me, nor it scares me.

    Iconic, yes, but in terms of his role as a henchman, there's no danger in anything that he's in, he lacked some qualities that a henchman should have, he's the henchman that should not be taken seriously.

    Why many people liked him? Simple, because he's fun, iconic, and there's the nostalgia factor, but that's it, he's not what I qualify to be an effective henchman.

    Like what I've said, he's more like Pleasance's Blofeld to me, iconic, yet not threatening or dangerous.

    That's pretty much my issue with Jaws. Too many cartoonish moments in both films, too many funny/goofy faces and in the end he switches side. Tee Hee was far more menacing and had plenty of personality.

    So yes, with all his flaws, I much prefer Mr White.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 4,087
    There's definitely a sense that Jaws becomes much more cartoonish in MR, despite the comedic moments in TSWLM. While TSWLM isn't a dark film by any means, I still find Jaws biting his victims actually rather horrifying in the moment (it's one of those times when the Bond series is able to organically drift into the realm of the Horror genre, and it's something I'm a fan of personally).

    I do like Mr. White's unhinged little speech during the interrogation scene in QOS (unfortunately it seems to be edited alongside the beginning of a horse race, which is the sort of editing choice I call 'first year film school' nonsense, and dissolves a good deal of the tension). Apart from that he doesn't have that much to do, but he makes an impact. So if this were purely about which film to watch for these characters, it'd be QOS.

    If it were about the films themselves I'll most likely go for MR despite its flaws.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,271
    There was no character development left for Jaws in MR. Falling in love? Becoming a good guy? I just don't care about either of those.

    On the other hand, I wanted to know more about Mr. White in SP.

    I vote for Mr. White.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,787
    echo wrote: »
    There was no character development left for Jaws in MR. Falling in love? Becoming a good guy? I just don't care about either of those.

    On the other hand, I wanted to know more about Mr. White in SP.

    I vote for Mr. White.

    Yes, Jaws is not just interesting, he's a shallow character, he's just there.....

    Although I liked the concept of him falling in love (making him a bit human), but he's not just threatening, menacing or interesting.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    Wait...to exactly answer the question, we must pinpoint the movies. The second film to feature Jaws was MR. The second film to feature Mr. White was QOS.

    And I also do think that both characters could have been left off the films without any repercussions.

    Still, I've come to love MR (continually increasingly since rejecting it totally when it came out) and consider QOS as an ulitmate sort of failure, due to the editing, so I definitely vote for the second film with Jaws, but I am ready to ignore him.
  • MR, unfortunately, is just a Dean Martin-Matt Helm movie -- albeit one with a bigger budget, higher production values, and Roger Moore instead of Dean Martin.

    So my answer must be QOS (Mr. White).
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,390
    Good points made by both sides. When I think about it I can't believe that they sent Bond to space! The sheer balls and chutzpah of that is mind-boggling to me. I can't see today's audiences accepting that in a Bond film.

    But I digress, time for us to focus on a new would you rather:

    Would you rather Pierce had a fifth Bond film OR Daniel stopped at four?

    Okay this one is a bit cheeky isn't it. But why not ask and see how we feel about this. Would you rather Pierce got another film wearing the shoulder holster? Or would have rather that Daniel stopped at SP?

    Lets have some fun with this one!

  • Posts: 15,096
    Brosnan a fifth. Easily. Just to exercise DAD.
  • Sign me up for a 5th film from Brosnan. One more rooted in Fleming than the 4 he already has. Honestly NTTD didn’t impact me the way it did for some other viewers.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    A fifth Brosnan, absolutely. Give him a stronger conclusion, ditch the sci-fi stuff, and let him go out in proper style.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,040
    Pierce deserved a 5th film for sure, it would have been great if Pierce's 5th was directed by Martin Campbell.


    I caught the end of SP on TV the other night, I am not a huge fan of the film though I thought whilst watching the ending was a good enough way to wrap up DC's tenure.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,092
    Sign me up for a 5th film from Brosnan. One more rooted in Fleming than the 4 he already has. Honestly NTTD didn’t impact me the way it did for some other viewers.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    A fifth Brosnan, absolutely. Give him a stronger conclusion, ditch the sci-fi stuff, and let him go out in proper style.
    I agree with you both.
    A final outing movie ala Equalizer with Brosnan in the lead, directed by say, Christopher Nolan.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    Brosnan's FYEO is certainly a tempting prospect. But I remember feeling that Craig's arc wasn't quite finished at the time. I didn't envisage it ending up the way it did, but I admire the big swings it took.

    I think these are both eras that didn't capitalise on their potential, so this is a very hard decision for me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    I still want to enjoy the alternate reality where Tarantino was allowed to direct CR starring Brosnan. What I wouldn't give to have experienced that insanity.
  • Posts: 12,460
    5th Brosnan if it means Craig’s era, specifically CR, remain unaltered. NTTD was a much better movie than SP to me, and Brosnan deserved better than DAD to go out on.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,390
    Brosnan's FYEO is certainly a tempting prospect. But I remember feeling that Craig's arc wasn't quite finished at the time. I didn't envisage it ending up the way it did, but I admire the big swings it took.

    I think these are both eras that didn't capitalise on their potential, so this is a very hard decision for me.

    I shall wait for you to make that decision!

    Lets assume @FoxRox that Pierce staying on didn't touch or change CR.

    I think I would have preferred a fifth Brosnan over NTTD. Brosnan films, for all their faults entertained. Craig's Bond started so strongly and by the end became more of a melodrama then an entertaining yarn.

    So give me a Brosnan send off that gives him a proper ride off into the sunset.

    SP for its considerable faults does have a finality to it. It would have also served as a bridge to the new guy with Blofeld still alive and SPECTRE still a threat.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,092
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I still want to enjoy the alternate reality where Tarantino was allowed to direct CR starring Brosnan. What I wouldn't give to have experienced that insanity.
    Harry Saltzman & Barbara Broccoli Present...
    Pierce Brosnan as James Bond 007...
    In Quentin Tarantino's Casino Royale
    Includes:
    - Scrambled eggs with EXTRA SAUCE!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    thedove wrote: »
    Would you rather Pierce had a fifth Bond film OR Daniel stopped at four?

    You sadistic mastermind. I would be willing to sacrifice QoS or SF for a fifth Brosnan, but I couldn't say that about NTTD as easily. It would make the Craig era feel unsubstantial to me. And yet a fifth Brosnan is such a tempting proposition...

    Your question is like an unescapable death trap from one of those Saw movies.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    I'm one of the biggest Brosnan fans out there but I don't think I could sacrifice QoS for an unknown fifth installment. I love it too much. SF or SP in its place though? I'd do that in a heartbeat.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Easy. Fifth Brosnan movie hands down. I wish I could erase NTTD from my memory.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,040
    Murdock wrote: »
    Easy. Fifth Brosnan movie hands down. I wish I could erase NTTD from my memory.

    Unfortunately I am much the same about NTTD, I can't get past the pre title sequence now.
  • Posts: 7,401
    Am indifferent about NTTD, but a fifth Brossa effort is the stuff of nightmares for me! He did four too many imo!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,040
    I think if Bond actually had no time to die in NTTD I would like it more, the overcooked death grates with me.
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